<p>I'm sorry, I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'm wondering what the ease of this program is compared to other similar programs like Hopkins/Peabody and Eastman/Rochester.</p>
<p>Thanks,
David.</p>
<p>Leaving aside all the difficulties common to all such programs, Tufts/NEC has two characteristics which make it particularly daunting.
First, Tufts and NEC are fully separate institutions. That is to say, Eastman is a division (a rather autonomous one, but still) of U of Roch., and Peabody is a division of JHU.
Second, Tufts and NEC are farther apart from each other than Eastman and Peabody are from the main campuses of their universities. It's probably about 6 miles between the two.</p>
<p>Yeah, but NEC is probably a superior conservatory to Eastman and Peabody. Also, NEC only accepts arrangements with the best academic institutions -- only Harvard and Tufts.</p>
<p>We looked at two of those three a couple of years back (NEC/Tufts and Peabody/JHU.) The feeling I came away with from both NEC and Peabody was that they considered these programs way beyond the reach of all but a few of their most highly-motivated and academically-capable students per year. They made the programs available but strongly recommended against them for almost everyone.</p>
<p>There is a school-run shuttle between Tufts in Medford and NEC that runs about six or seven times a day when Tufts is in session. Otherwise, the trip would take a ride on two different subway lines in addition to either a short bus trip or a 10-15 minute walk.</p>
<p>JHU also provides a shuttle between Peabody and the Homewood campus. The distance is shorter and I believe the shuttle is a little more frequent than Tufts'.</p>
<p>I can't say whether the situation at Eastman/Rochester is any better or worse because we did not look into that possibility.</p>
<p>NEC is better in some departments than Eastman or Peabody, but all three have their strengths. JHU is not exactly a lightweight academically and, for some majors, it would probably be a better choice than Tufts or even Harvard.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The feeling I came away with from both NEC and Peabody was that they considered these programs way beyond the reach of all but a few of their most highly-motivated and academically-capable students per year. They made the programs available but strongly recommended against them for almost everyone.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is definitely true for the Tufts-NEC program. For that reason there are only a handful that are accepted to the dual degree program each year. However, if you're accepted, both schools are telling you that you are one of those students capable of the intense work the conservatory and academic components of the program require. </p>
<p>And I don't think the shuttle needs to run any more often than it does between Tufts and NEC. They are timed to arrive at either school at the beginning of certain class blocks. I have two good friends doing this program and they have never complained that they ought to be more frequent.</p>
<p>My D did not even try for NEC/Tufts. She got very negative feedback from her music crowd and teachers. Not the the program is bad, just not very feasible and almost no admissions or graduations. You are always welcome to prove everyone else wrong and be one out of a few hundred who is accepted and finally graduates. Sometimes you just need to play the odds and use the limited audition opportunities wisely. Juilliard/Columbia has been discussed endlessly. An official program exists, but it is for the very exceptional one out of a thousand. I don't think MSM even pretends to have a program. The Eastman/URoch program is more feasible. I do not have any current information. Lots of Eastman students take courses at URoch but I think there are very few who are double degree and very few of those finish. Eastman clearly has an "attitude" and that does not help with encouragement of the dd students. Bard started the conservatory with a double degree requirement. I think there are few openings, plus the double degree student needs to be interested in the very liberal and multidisciplinary approach of Bard College. The Peabody/JHU double degree opportunties are demanding. This is largely because JHU takes pride in being a nerdy school that demands a lot from students. Acceptance by both campuses and a separate dd acceptance is required. About 10-20 are accepted and about 1/3 graduate with dd's. </p>
<p>For the private conservatories, Oberlin has by far the best batting average. Lots of students do dd's and a lot of them finish. Other good choices are U's, such as Illinois, with strong music departments.</p>
<p>I would echo all the combined wisdom of the other posters. We also explored many of these options. If a double degree is truly important, then it is best to be at a single institution, and even better on a single campus (the commute between U Rochester and Eastman is also a little daunting without a car, and the bus service organized by the University is limited and rumored to be endangered). If going to Tufts (or Harvard, or Columbia) is really important, then the double degree options might be of interest (but are extremely competitive, accepting only a small number of the students who have both interests) Similarly, if going to NEC (or Julliard or Peabody) is the primary concern, because of teacher choice for example, then the academic options of the nearby schools could be of interest. It will all depend on what the primary concern is. Ours was to find a good, workable double degree program with excellent opportunities in both schools. For that, Oberlin, UMich, Indiana, Northwestern and now Bard are all good options. We even explored CIM and Case Western, which are separate institutions, but share a campus and have what appears to be a very manageable double degree program.</p>
<p>What options does Indiana have in the double degree/major area? I was unaware that there was anything...</p>
<p>David.</p>
<p>The Tufts/NEC program is highly competitive with only a handful of students being accepted each year. In addition, it is my understanding that this is a five year program and that the first two years do not involve much music work at NEC but rather are mostly Tufts courses. The music courses come in later. I also thought that this was an arrangement for engineering/music and not all majors offered by Tufts, but I could be wrong about that. The trip from Tufts to NEC is not an easy one...time consuming and not something one would do more than once in a day. But I will also say that the trip from Peabody to JHU main campus isn't all that easy, nor is the trip from Eastman to the main U Rochester campus. All of these programs make it sound like doing work at both divisions or institutions is easy, but from what I've heard from students is that it is not.</p>
<p>I did check...and the Tufts/NEC program is for all majors and in fact the website says NOT engineering and music. I must be hallucinating...but I recall that when DS applied to schools four years ago, there WAS a Tufts/NEC music/engineering degree. Oh well. Perhaps that is a different program. There is a five year program at Peabody/JHU that is engineering/music.</p>
<p>Sorry, I think I assumed that Indiana (Jacobs School) offered the option of a double degree, but apparently what is offered is a Bachelor of Science in Music and an Outside Field (B.S.O.F) which includes 27 credits in another area, but not a complete dual degree. As Thumper1 has pointed out, most (all?) of the double degree programs require 5 years to complete.</p>
<p>I don't know about the NEC-Tufts commute. For both Eastman and Peabody, the academic campuses are about 3-4 miles away. The problem is not the 10 minute bus ride but the bus schedules and time lost waiting for buses and schedules that don't necessarily match class start or dismissal times.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, IU's BSOF is effectively a double degree minus the liberal arts electives. You complete the entire BM program, the normal distribution requirements for music students, and the requirements for your second major-- but not the distribution requirements for a BA, and therefore you receive only one degree.
Also, you're expected to complete it in 4 years. I think they grant you fewer credit hours for your applied lessons so you don't have to overload. Kind of a dumb system.</p>
<p>Actually, the bus from Eastman to Rochester is not that bad. Classes at one campus start on the hour and classes at the other start on the half hour. The bus runs every 30 minutes or so. In the afternoon, it takes a straight shot from River Campus to downtown with no stops in between. </p>
<p>When my son was at Eastman, he took classes at river campus almost every semester. He thought about doing a dd. The problem that he encountered and is often a universal problem regardless of where you go to school is the scheduling of classes vs. the times that mandatory orchestra rehearses. Orchestra rehearsals at Eastman are for 2 hours in the afternoons on M, W, F. Therefore, he could never take any mid or late afternoon classes. Since several of the classes he needed for the second major met at that time, he was out of luck. </p>
<p>He said that the students who double degreed at Eastman were mostly musicology majors or students who didn't have orchestra responsibilities. Piano majors might work but they are all required to accompany 2 students each semester in addition to their own studies so that eats up a lot of time.</p>
<p>The last consideration for a double degree at any institution is the support of the studio teacher. Oberlin is very workable overall to dd students, but I know a young man at Oberlin whose studio teacher told him to either drop the second degree or find another teacher. Another school that works well for dd is Lawrence University.</p>
<p>Oberlin makes the double degree a little easier in that respect by having four different ensembles that can be used to satisfy the Large Ensemble requirement. Orchestra has the classic MWF 2:30-4:30 time slot, Chamber Orchestra and Wind Ensemble meet at that same time on Tuesdays and Thursdays plus from 7:30-9:30 on Monday evenings, and Contemporary Music Ensemble rehearses MWF from 1:00-2:30. If there is a course in another major that you simply must take during one of those times, it is usually possible to arrange to be in one of the other ensembles for that semester. There are even more options in terms of groups and rehearsal times that allow a student to meet their Small Ensemble requirements.</p>
<p>As edad points out, there are a few applied music teachers there who are not thrilled at having their students in the double degree program. That is a good thing to ask about when teacher-shopping there.</p>
<p>The tough odd of getting into Tufts/NEC program is likely imposed by NEC, not Tufts. But Tufts can benefit from the association with one of the most prestigious music schools in the country even if it really means only one or two students benefit from it a year. Great for marketing....</p>
<p>^ ^ ^ This might not be true as 35-40% of applicants to NEC get accepted whereas 26% of Tufts applicants get accepted.</p>
<p>That being said, the number of students who have the musical talent & academic background to be accepted into either institution is, indeed, quite small.</p>
<p>Indeed the time spent at NEC if a Tufts or Harvard dual degree student is quite small, at least in the first two years. For a student who wants more music immersion, it would not be as satisfying.</p>
<p>Where do you get a 35-40% acceptance rate for NEC, Lolabelle? I don't think that is accurate.</p>
<p>Allmusic, for the first two-three years, the time is divided between Tufts/Harvard and NEC; yes, most of those first years are spent at Tufts/Harvard. The last two years -- BECAUSE THIS IS A FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM -- the time at NEC is greatly increased. In fact, I believe that in the fifth year, dual-degree students spend 100% of their time at NEC, asthey have already technically graduated with their BA/BS from Tufts/Harvard and are therefore only compelting their BMus.</p>
<p>I found the stats regarding acceptance rate to the NEC at their very own website: <a href="http://www.newenglandconservatory.edu/apply/faq.html#1%5B/url%5D">http://www.newenglandconservatory.edu/apply/faq.html#1</a></p>