<p>“And my D at Tufts knows several peers who are doing research in their freshman year. She herself was able to garner a coveted research spot next year in her STEM field based on the personal encouragement and tutelage of one of her profs.”</p>
<p>I’m sure there would have been plenty of research opportunities if she went to UofM. Umich outspends Tufts on research by nearly $1,000,000,000. Michigan is 2nd in the nation for research spending, while Tufts is 108th in research spending. Research is definitely one of Michigan’s strong spots.</p>
<p>How does peer assessment indicate quality of undergraduate classroom experience more than class size, which you say does not “necessarily mean quality”?</p>
<p>And much has been written about the speciousness of the peer assessment score:</p>
<p>And certainly feel as you do about Michigan. Sadly, it’s the tone of “categorical, patent superiority” in discussions like this (as reflected in the Michigan boosters here) that raise folks’ hackles unnecessarily. </p>
<p>gondaline, class sizes published by universities should not be relied on to heavily. There are many tricks private universities use to make their classes seem smaller. Public universities do not play such games in order to affect the rankings. But Michigan is known for undergraduate instruction and focus on undergraduate teaching and research. Mathematics attracts a very manageable number of students, so Math majors typically enjoy very small classes. Since Michigan/s Mathematics department is one of the top in the nation, I dn’t think this is a difficult decision.</p>
<p>The class size figures I posted were published in USNWR. DeaconBlues numbers come from the university, which, according to what you say, should be looked at with skepticism. Why the discrepancy between them?</p>
<p>Quality of education aside, it’s very easy to cherry pick rankings/ lists that support or discredit a school/ major/ program in order to prove or disprove a point. We’re all guilty of it, and unfortunately, the OP will have to sort through the mire here to find the answers important to him/ her.</p>
<p>In many ways, this is an apples-oranges debate. Tufts is mid-size, Michigan is large, which makes side-by-side comparisons difficult. It would be interesting to know why the OP is interested in both schools, as their differences are arguably more pronounced than their similarities—the most potent of which might the fact that they are both ranked #28 among national universities in USNWR. This says a lot about BOTH schools, as far as educational quality is concerned (and Tufts somehow manages this even given the meh peer assessment score and relatively poor endowment), but also about the passionate support they engender in those who champion them.</p>
<p>My numbers, from the university itself- should not be looked at with skepticism. They are within 3% of the numbers posted by Gondaline, but as I stated, they were ordered in a way which made the difference between the two schools not seem as dramatic as in Gondaline’s original post. </p>
<p>;) Which is why I said how the information is presented matters. </p>
<p>Again- both schools offer excellent opportunities, and are great institutions. But for this particular curriculum desired by the OP, UM, numerically and reputation wise comes out ahead, and sometimes that is very important to a potential student.</p>
<p>However, fit is also important. I am hopeful the OP has personal experience with both schools so she can make a decision with personal input as well. </p>
<p>For the first thing this is not a Apples vs Oranges debate mainly for two reasons :
Even though Michigan is a state school with lots of students, the Math Department gives almost 60-80 Math majors each year which is very comparable to Tufts.</p>
<p>Please keep in mind that I am exempted from most Sciences and Language requirements. I need to get the Social Science requirement at either of the institutions.</p>
<ol>
<li>Secondly even though Michigan has an edge over Tufts for Maths or CS, I am a bit skeptical about weather, international friendliness and reputation.
In my opinion Tufts is a better place for welcoming environment for internationals and I am not sure but it is my projection that Tufts CAN be the next UChicago. I imagine once Uchicago had 40% rate and now its comparable to Ivy acceptances. I don’t want to miss on such an experience.</li>
</ol>
<p>I never imagined I would have got in Tufts. I was just lucky enough to get in thats why I got confused.</p>
<hr>
<p>Just for the fact, though I deeply acknowledge the rankings, I don’t think they are the only factor to consider in my situation (maybe because I want to go to grad school so undergrad school wont matter that much + There are some strict regulations for international AFTER they graduate. So the reputation in my home country matters too.</p>
<hr>
<p>For the internships and research positions and all …almost more than half things dont matter in international citizens since we are at slight disadvantage.
Seriously it is NOT easy to find an internships just after 9months as they say. </p>
<p>"Re: math, you want the better undergrad experience, regardless of graduate school program rankings, which are what blue85 has posted. Tufts, being smaller and more LAC-like, would offer you more direct access to profs and research opportunities.</p>
<p>Tufts for undergrad and U Michigan for grad. Best of both worlds."</p>
<p>" Sadly, it’s the tone of “categorical, patent superiority” in discussions like this (as reflected in the Michigan boosters here) that raise folks’ hackles unnecessarily."</p>
<p>It seems you suffer from the same issues gondalineNJ. You made an absolute blanket statement about Tufts as compared to Michigan (regarding access and research) and it seems you just expected that your thoughts would not be challenged. The fact is that in math and cs, according to rankings in academe, Michigan IS superior to Tufts. </p>
<p>This is the Michigan board. It is obviously going to be biased towards Michigan, but not without any consideration of others schools. If the OP were considering other top rated math or cs programs, I can assure you the responses would be different. </p>
<p>I went to the Tufts site to see how posters there responded to the same question from the OP. There were no responses, not even from you. </p>
<p>For the reason mentioned: NO I have not and cannot Visit both the schools just because I am an international student from international country.
The best experience I have is from you guys, admission counselors and info on their sites.</p>
<p>Please seniors, do keep in mind about my international citizenship status as it creates a lot of division between us and domestic ones.</p>
<p>Whoa. Only came here because of how my settings/ search is set up, which obviously did not bring me first off to Tufts board. My bad?</p>
<p>Not that I don’t expect to be challenged. More that I expect to be challenged… vociferously, especially given where I’ve ended up.</p>
<p>And DeaconBlues, I’m confused. Are you saying university class size numbers should or should not be looked at heavily/ skeptically? Because you say two different things.</p>
<p>" Secondly even though Michigan has an edge over Tufts for Maths or CS, I am a bit skeptical about weather, international friendliness and reputation.</p>
<p>You think Tufts is in the tropics? The weather is pretty comparable. Neither place is going to be warm in the winter. Michigan has over 5000 internationals. Ann Arbor is very welcoming and diverse. Not sure what you mean by reputation, since there are many surveys, some already listed, that show Michigan among the top 25 universities on the planet!</p>
<p>In my opinion Tufts is a better place for welcoming environment for internationals and I am not sure but it is my projection that Tufts CAN be the next UChicago. I imagine once Uchicago had 40% rate and now its comparable to Ivy acceptances. I don’t want to miss on such an experience."</p>
<p>It seems admittance rates is about your biggest priority at this point and in the future as well. If that is the case, just go to Tufts. You can brag to Harvard and MIT students for the next four years that Tufts will be almost as hard to get into as their schools. In the meantime, I don’t think they’re going to be too impressed. </p>
<p>Seriously, you are going to lose sleep over attending a school with a higher admittance rate (around 30 percent this year) than trying to go to the one that will afford you the best overall education in your area of interest? These two schools are ranked similarly by USNWR. The reality is you have to choose which factors are more important to you. Good luck!</p>
<p>“I am a bit skeptical about weather, international friendliness and reputation. In my opinion Tufts is a better place for welcoming environment for internationals and I am not sure but it is my projection that Tufts CAN be the next UChicago.”</p>
<p>I don’t know why you think Tufts will be more welcoming. Michigan may have more international students than the total number of Students at Tufts. To me that says there could be more resources for international students. As for weather, I doubt you will find much difference. And maybe Tufts CAN be the next Chicago but it isn’t. For math, Michigan is right there with Chicago. For cs, Michigan is above Chicago.</p>
<p>Gondaline- I did not say two different things. LOL </p>
<p>I actually confirmed and supported your numbers, though I pointed out that the way you presented them made them seem negative, when in reality, for both schools, classroom size is not a gigantic difference.</p>
<p>"In my opinion Tufts is a better place for welcoming environment for internationals and I am not sure but it is my projection that Tufts CAN be the next UChicago. I imagine once Uchicago had 40% rate and now its comparable to Ivy acceptances. I don’t want to miss on such an experience.</p>
<p>I never imagined I would have got in Tufts. I was just lucky enough to get in thats why I got confused."</p>
</p>