Tulane crushes it in the US News Rankings

Colleges and Universities A-Z Tulane University
21

Like any data set, there’s certainly the opportunity and incentive for schools to game their rankings. Cough cough Northeastern cough cough. Since “what gets measured gets managed.”

But I actually used the USNWR rankings to find Tulane as a potential school for my kid. We had some general parameters for schools but felt the need to have a few more schools on the list. If you are going to apply to schools like A, B and C, then why not also apply to similar schools X, Y and Z?

Tulane, which wasn’t on our radar at all, was one of the XYZ schools and ended up being the one. I doubt I would have found it if I only had a bunch of raw data tables instead of a shopping guide.

But we didn’t pick Tulane at #50 because is was “better” than #55. That obviously makes little sense.

22

Well, I have to admit if the USNWR got even one person as valuable as you (well, two people, you and your son) to look at Tulane, I might have to bend just a little!! And I totally agree about NEU, btw, but I know we are now going to incur the wrath of their adherents. And it is a shame, because in some ways it is like Tulane. Not in the specifics, but in that it is a fine school with a truly unique approach in some areas of higher education that should be of great consideration to the right students. Not because they managed to manipulate the parameters to get it higher on a list.

23

@dolphnlvr6

I hear you on the PSU thing. Having lived in Pittsburgh for 11 years I know how those Nittany Lions can be. Here is an interesting take on trying to compare state schools to the privates, hot off the press.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/09/09/the-u-s-news-and-world-report-college-rankings-a-public-vs-private-dilemma/

24

“To prove your point you would have to show that these schools actually changed their policy from when they were ranked lower, if they ever were.”

FC – Boston College is the poster child. The merit aid model was invented at BC in the 1970s when it was a low-ranked financially struggling non-selective regional college. Having arrived at a very different place, they now use a different model.

USC is hanging onto that playbook despite moving up into the top 25. Perhaps they are aiming for a place a bit higher than where BC ended up.

25

Since Tulane is the subject, what do you consider to be the best programs for undergrads?

I’ve heard the Law school is quite good and well known, but that’s about all I know about the academic merits of Tulane.

26

@northwesty - you have to look at net cost. Rice is almost $10,000 less than those other schools to start. So the bottom line is the same.

27

@fallenchemist - USC is marketing to valedictorians / salutatorian with National Merit that are considering top 10 schools. By providing half tuition scholarships, and maybe even full tuition scholarships they are winning some of those kids.

Tulane is marketing to kids considering NYU, Boston University, Miami, etc. and luring them with scholarships to New Orleans.

28

Clarinet – fair point. I see the Rice sticker price listed at $55k, as compared to Wake at $60k, TU $62k, USC $63k.

$55k is cheap by no means. But interesting that Rice’s pricing model does run a little counter to the more typical high sticker, high discount.

29

@prezbucky

Honestly, I am not sure there are a discreet set of best programs for undergrads. I mean, I am sure some programs are somewhat stronger than others relative to some standard in their discipline, but Tulane has a wide array of programs that are generally considered quite good. Latin American Studies; their Econ department gets good marks, and Political Economy is one that I have especially heard some things about; the Business School has numerous strengths including Finance (with extraordinary subprograms such as Burkenroad Reports, Energy trading, and others), Accounting, Entrepreneurship, and an outstanding special program called the Altman; I think the Architecture School post-Katrina is a real star; Biomedical Engineering is very strong; and I am absolutely leaving out many fine departments for no good reason other than it seems silly to name them all.

English, for example, has some fine writers and scholars in it, especially it seems in poetry. The head of the department was just named poet laureate for Louisiana, and believe me that state has a healthy share of fine poets both in and out of academia. Oh, and Tulane is one of only a few schools to offer an undergraduate degree in Public Health. Tulane, like many top schools, will provide a very good education in virtually anything it offers at the undergraduate level, especially since Tulane is so undergraduate focused compared to many other research universities. I would also point out that Tulane has a few other special programs that transcend any one department, such as Newcomb Scholars and Tulane Scholars. These provide the most academically and leadership inclined students with even more involved and intense experiences. The Altman is something like this, but it is specific to International Business.

But I think if I rephrased your question as to what makes Tulane special regarding academics for undergrads, rather than specific departments I would say its attention to undergrads while still being a top research institution, the close relationship between faculty and undergrads including the ability to get seriously involved in research early in the undergraduate years, the various programs available especially for the more serious students, and the service learning component which allows students even more opportunity to put their learning into practice towards making New Orleans and the world just a little bit better a student at a time. That’s my take on it anyway.

30

No, this is not correct. It is only part of the story, Tulane is also doing exactly what USC is doing but more so. Each year, Tulane offers 135 full tuition scholarships, a dozen or so full ride, based on merit that are designed to, and absolutely do, attract students that were accepted to and considering HYPS level schools. That number is about 8% of a typical incoming class if all the winners enrolled. That is not peanuts. And that doesn’t count the 20 students who win the $20,000 Community Service Scholarship, which is allowed to be added to any merit award up to the full amount of tuition and fees, and nearly all those winners also got merit awards. So now we are talking 155 high $$ scholarship amounts, or about 10% of a typical class target.

My D is Exhibit #1, but I know literally hundreds of students that fall into that category. The requirements for winning these scholarships are stats that are absolutely Ivy level. 2250+ SAT (33+ ACT) and top 5% of class with a very strong record of challenging classes, among other attributes. Another real world example is that in my D’s year there were 3 (!!) students that won the Presidential Medal that picked Tulane. This is the award from the Department of Education in DC that goes to only 2 students from each state and a handful of US citizens studying abroad. That year that number beat schools like Duke, Chicago and Vanderbilt, as well as an Ivy or two. And while my D wasn’t the winner for her state that year, she was a finalist, which I think is sufficient to show she was one of this country’s outstanding students. Tulane absolutely gets a number of students that were also accepted to and/or had the stats for the most selective of schools.

So I am sorry, but your statement is just completely wrong in its incompleteness and therefore its implication. Well, more than implication given your stated conclusion. Just…wrong.

31

@fallenchemist

Thank you for the info!

32

My experience: Kid #1 went to USC starting 2010. 4.0 unweighted, valedictorian, 32 ACT, lots of school sports and extracurriculars, lots of APs, 4s & 5s on AP tests, graduated summa from USC last year. No merit aid.
Kid #2 freshman at Tulane: 3.9 GPA, lots of school sports, service-oriented extracurriculars, 29 ACT, lots of APs but not as many as kid#1 (both aced AP Calculus), one 3, two 4s & one 5 on AP tests (didn’t take all the tests), very good writer. $20K/yr. merit aid, early action application.
Worth noting: a couple of kid 2’s friends with better objective stats applied regular decision and were either rejected or waitlisted (and we know how that turned out).

33

That’s an interesting comparison @ChuckP and congrats on the summa cum laude graduation for your S1. That’s a great accomplishment.

I am pretty sure USC never had as much merit aid as Tulane, and that certainly could be a direct reaction to their environment of California money (lots of full pay candidates within 100 miles of USC) as well as SoCal being an easier place to attract students to than NOLA. NOLA is attractive to lots of students, of course, but it is much further from large population centers than SoCal, not to mention that there are far more non-stop flights to LAX and other nearby airports. So I could see where their admissions people would look at the goals of the school and come up with a different strategy than they would if placed at Tulane, even for the same goals.

34

northwesty,
You said the top 20’s didn’t give much aid. thats not true. You listed average awards by schools. I gave Rice as an example of a top school that offers som sweet merit awards:
http://financialaid.rice.edu/scholarships.aspx

And clarinet: Rice used to have a lower base tuition cost. It used to be about 10K less than comparable top schools. (Heck, until the 60’s or so it used to be free).They have, unfortunately, closed that tuition gap in recent years. Here is this years’ cost: It ads up to around 56K, with room and board: https://students.rice.edu/Standard.aspx?id=2147484536

35

Of COURSE. Any school will give the most merit money to its top candidates. The stats of the top students will rise with the quality(the caliber) of the students applying to these schools. They use tuition discounting to attract these top students, but how “top” is “top” depends, of course, on the school and the quality of the applicant pool. That still has nothing to do with the fact that some top schools can have generous merit awards.

36

And to add to what @jym626 is saying, this is precisely why the Ivies and a few others don’t give any merit awards. They don’t want to leave even a hint that all their enrolees are not the very top students in the country. They don’t need to entice anyone. And for the most part, they are right!

37

JYM #33 – Rice gives merit to 25% of its students and the average award is $12k.

Even accounting for Rice’s $5-8k lower sticker price than some, that is less merit dough than what you see at top 50 schools like Tulane and Miami. Which was my point. Tulane would work out to an average merit award of $8,190 per student; Rice would be $3,000 per student in contrast.

And recognize that Rice and USC are pretty big outliers in the top 25 in terms of how much they do merit money. Perhaps reflecting that those two schools are in the top 25, but the lower portion of the top 25.

As you go up the ladder, the merit money goes down.

But go Owls. I might put Rice on the list for kid #3. Rice at a net price in the $40s seems like a nice deal (if you can get it).

38

Northwesty: Back in post 12 or so, you said this:

I was simply pointing out that you CAN find merit money from top 30 schools. Ditto for some on the LAC list too. Its not about the quantity of merit money or the average per student- its the fact that some is available (especially some of the BIG awards, at schools like Rice).

Some of the lesser schools give “merit” (tuition discounting) of about $10k. When the tuition and fees are as high as the top schools, its not that impressive, but it feels great to the students who feel “selected”.

39

Rice offers these: They are NOT chump change:

Name
Recipients
Amount
Trustee Distinguished Scholarship Students whose personal talents distinguish them within the pool of admitted applicants.

$24,000 - $26,500

Renewable for four years.

Trustee Diversity Scholarship Students whose diverse life experiences and contributions to diverse groups distinguish them within the pool of admitted applicants.

$24,000

Renewable for four years.

Century Scholars Program

Students who demonstrate an aptitude for research with a faculty mentor.

$4,000

Renewable for two years, plus a guaranteed research mentorship.

Barbara Jordan Scholarship Students who have distinguished themselves through initiatives that build bridges between cultural, racial, and ethnic groups.

$24,000

Renewable for four years.

Engineering Scholarship Outstanding applicants to the engineering division.
$10,000 - Full Tuition

Renewable for four years.

Edgar Odell Lovett Scholarship Outstanding applicants who are foreign nationals.

Half Tuition

Renewable for four years.

Allen International Scholarship Outstanding applicants who are foreign nationals.

Full Tuition

Renewable for four years.

40

WUSTL has a fair amount of merit money. No, not like Tulane or Miami or some others, but not absent either. But again, they never did, or at least not in anyone’s memory that I know of. Other than BC, it does not appear that moving up in prestige can be corellated to a decline in merit scholarships. Not a very persuasive argument. But since the top schools have little history of merit aid even pre-rankings, none of this makes sense to argue about. It is entirely speculative and only time will tell what comes about. And that is assuming Tulane rises much further.

I can only say that based on what I know about the people currently in charge, I would be very surprised if Tulane changed strategy, even if they somehow broke into the top 30. Of course they won’t always be in charge, so who knows.