Turning down P S U Honors for Swarthmore?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Unless I get off the UChicago waitlist, this is the decision I have to make.</p>

<p>Swarthmore will cost around $50k/year, while Schreyers will cost around $25k/year. I do plan on going to law school. My parents are willing to finance a Swarthmore attendance in full, but any money that I save by going to PSU will be redirected to funding law school, which they otherwise would not finance.</p>

<p>I stayed overnight at Swarthmore's Ride the Tide program, but I have only had cursory experiences with PSU (since I've heard so much about it and so many of my friends are going there). Everything was as expected. It's not that I'm not sure what these two schools are like, it's just that I'm not sure what I want.</p>

<p>On one hand, I want to change my lifelong role as the rebellious/lazy slacker. The biggest incentive for me for attending Swarthmore is that it's supposed to tease the intellectual out of you, that its vibrant classrooms and stimulating student body are supposed to release you of any educational slump that you've been experiencing in high school. At Penn State, on the other hand, I can very easily see myself slipping into the mediocre obscurity that comes from low expectations and generally lower achieving student body. Yet I also acknowledge the strong possibility that I've bitten off more than I can chew, that I'll simply flounder in Swarthmore's rigorous environment whereas I can simply grow out of my old patterns and succeed when left to myself in the less intense atmosphere at PSU.</p>

<p>I'm a pretty awkward kid and Swarthmore is known for its awkward kids. I can definitely see myself fitting in more at Swarthmore than at PSU. Spectator sports has always puzzled me, and half of the activities that my peers enjoy seem alien to me. My sense of humor can be described as quirky at best. Yet I also realize that while diversity is the spice of life, too much of one flavoring can yield just another form of blandness. I can also see myself becoming bored of too many intellectual activists. The truth is I enjoy a wide range of individuals - sports freaks, job oriented preprofessionals, conservatives, and even "normal" people - and let's face it, most types of people usually don't have a small liberal arts college as their first choice. I know that there exists a wide spectrum at any college, but if Ride the Tide was any indication, and if Swat really is smaller than my current high school, well I just don't want to be stuck in a stiflingly small environment.</p>

<p>I have always had a laidback life (my parents are the opposite of helicopter parents) and I love the breathing room. Yet I always felt that this slower-paced, less goal-oriented lifestyle has put me at disadvantages in many ways. Yet (again) I don't know how I would respond to a more personal environment like Swarthmore.</p>

<p>And is the small liberal arts education really that much better than PSU Honors'? I've heard a lot of different opinions, ranging from "Honors colleges confers a significant advantage to a school that's already in the USNWR top 50" to "Law schools don't give a **** about whether you graduate with honors". The worst part is that I've never been exposed to a stimulating classroom environment, so I don't even know if I'll take full advantage of its benefits. Yes I know about Swat's high law school placement statistics, but I like to think that this is because of self-selectivity; for example, I can see myself in the bottom half of my Swat class, while being in the top half of my PSU class.</p>

<p>Oh and I'm extremely perturbed that Swat has 7 libraries but only 1 cafeteria.</p>

<p>I guess it all comes down to the fact that I don't trust myself enough to make such a long term decision, given my limited life experiences. Now that I'm nearing the end of my post, I realize this is really ridiculous asking strangers to help me with this basically personal dilemma, but it's been therapeutic typing all this out anyways. :)</p>

2

<p>“Swarthmore will cost around $50k/year, while Schreyers will cost around $25k/year. I do plan on going to law school. My parents are willing to finance a Swarthmore attendance in full, but any money that I save by going to PSU will be redirected to funding law school, which they otherwise would not finance.”</p>

<p>I actually read your entire post, but I should have stoped at the end of the first paragraph. Attending PSU will save you $100k over 4 years. With that, you can pay for 2 of your 3 years of Law School. PSU is a fine university with a good Honors program. I would have to say go for PSU.</p>

3

<p>You read my entire post? hahah gosh you poor soul</p>

<p>And yeah that’s my strongest argument for PSU too</p>

<p>My parents actually want me to attend Swat, their rationale being that if I don’t do well at PSU (they think this is likely), then they’d have wasted the $25k/year anyways.</p>

4

<p>Choose Penn State. The cost difference is too great, for starters. You say also that you don’t want to be stuck in a stiflingly small environment; I think you’ve already made up your mind, more or less. (This, incidentally, is why I didn’t apply to any LACs. I come from a high school of 400; I’m ready for its polar opposite in size–Cal or UCLA.)</p>

<p>Additionally, I’ve taken both small upper-division courses and medium-large lower-division lectures at the lowly state university where I live; I didn’t find the “impersonal” lectures a problem (I prefer that format to my smaller AP classes, actually, since people ask fewer stupid questions), but if you need personalized help you should be able to seek out your prof somehow wherever you are.</p>

5

<p>ee33ee, I guess you are going to have to feed your parents (and any other doubters) a ***** burger by doing well at PSU. But I can assure you that someone who is good enough to get into Swarthmore will most likely do well at PSU. Yes, there are many distractions, but I am sure you can handle it.</p>

6

<p>ts3433, that’s not it at all. I’m actually leaning more towards Swarthmore right now. True, I say that I’m scared of suffocating in a small school, but I’m also eager to thrive in a smaller environment. Again, I don’t know what I want. Should I, though? I’ve never been to college before :(</p>

<p>Alexandre, everyone tells me that a Swarthmore education is as good as it gets. That’s why I’m reluctant to turn them down. I know people who make greater financial sacrifices to attend Ivies. I guess I could go to PSU, chill during class, and read the textbook in my spare time, but this numbing ritual cannot sustain me any longer. It depresses me, but I don’t think I’ll be able to break out of this in a large school.</p>

<p>Yet I’m also cynical as to whether these top liberal arts classes are some kind of magic pill. I guess graduate schools do like them, but I feel like I need some tangible reassurance.</p>

7

<p>In that case, go for Swarthmore. Academically, there is no arguing that it is one of the very best.</p>

8

<p>I would personally choose Penn State in a heartbeat, but I think you might be miserable there. It’s a big place and your comments about mediocre obscurity definitely hit home. If you aren’t disciplined and seek out what PSU has to offer (which is a lot), it could definitely be a slippery slope for you. There are as many great people at Penn State as there are at Swarthmore, but you’ve got to find them and connect with them. </p>

<p>By contrast, you almost definitely will not get lost at Swarthmore and you will be surrounded by a student body that is consistently stronger and more motivated than at PSU. Schreyer helps with this, but its benefits aren’t that huge. I like Penn State, but for you, I don’t think it’s a great match.</p>

9

<p>Another reason to go to PSU:
Ivygate just endorsed Penn State to replace UPenn in the ivy league.</p>

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10

<p>Alex, what made you change your mind so quickly and firmly?</p>

<p>And could you please address my last concern? What makes it “one of the best”? I’m cynical, is it worth $100k? I don’t think so. But is the student body worth $100k (I learn a lot from my peers)? Maybe.</p>

<p>thank you!!</p>

11

<p>I don’t think you’re truly grasping how much $100,000 is. Or maybe I just am super frugal when compared to my peers.</p>

12

<p>I think you need to get more info on Schreyer. If you do some searching, there have been threads on this before. My understanding is that this is one of THE honors programs in the U.S. and is a whole different animal entirely than PSU at large. Maybe it won’t be that unchallenging after all.</p>

13

<p>well-I am not going to read everything-but what I have read makes me “vote” for Swarthmore. It will make you a far more interesting person in the end.</p>

14

<p>Okay, just to say this: I applied to Swat ED (rejected) but am now going to Bryn Mawr, so I have this really huge love of small liberal arts schools and all that jazz. So here we go, maybe I can rival the size of your post.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>100K is 100K- if your parents want to pay for it, then let them! Saving money is good, but if your parents are able to pay the money without crazy financial stress, then they might as well. That’s the purpose of money. It buys stuff- and an amazing education is a good thing to buy.</p></li>
<li><p>Swat has that amazing pass/fail semester so you can get used to the rigorous class load. Then after that, I think you can opt to take 4 more classes pass/fail in the other three years. They also have a lot of tutoring things in place- Like their Writing Associates and stuff like that- they know that not everyone might be completely prepared for college. </p></li>
<li><p>At Swat, you can take classes at Haverford, Bryn Mawr, or UPenn. And it’s REALLY easy. There’s a tri-co van, plus the blue buses (unfortunately they only go between BMC and Hav), and then the train to UPenn. If you want to meet new people, you take a class somewhere else. You go to Philly. That’s one thing that made me turn down PSU- kinda icky location.</p></li>
<li><p>You sound like you’d get along with the student body. Sure, there is that crazy quirky humor and awkwardness in the tri-co. And you’d be surprised at the diversity- I met some pretty cool people at BMC… Athletes, Republicans, all of those ‘minorities.’ And if you ever feel suffocated- that’s what Philly and Penn are for.</p></li>
<li><p>At Swat/LACs, you’re really involved in your learning. All that discussion makes it YOURS, if you know what I mean? It’s more than something you’re just studying.</p></li>
<li><p>Close relationships with professors= better recs for law school, if you think that way. Seriously- I know people who babysit for their professors, haha.</p></li>
<li><p>Parrish Beach. (Yeah, I like being a bum on those chairs- even if the squirrels are slightly violent)</p></li>
<li><p>If you really don’t like Sharples, come and eat at BMC! Bryn Mawr has serious award winning food. It also has two dining halls and the guy population increases a tenfold during mealtimes because of all the visitors, haha. You can eat at any of the schools in the tri-co with your meal pass. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Erm. And more. I have a few friends at Swat now and know a decent amount about it- some firsthand, some second-hand, so if you ever want to talk with a Tri-Coer, PM me or something.</p>

15

<p>ee33ee, as your parents aptly point out, graduating from PSU with a less than stellar record won’t help you. If you go to PSU are find yourself demotivated and end up graduating with a sub 3.5 GPA, there isn’t much you will gain from going there. But PSU is not going to push you like Swarthmore. You are going to have to want it (and go after it) to really do well at PSU. From your post #6, it seems like you just won’t be motivated at PSU.</p>

<p>“I guess I could go to PSU, chill during class, and read the textbook in my spare time, but this numbing ritual cannot sustain me any longer. It depresses me, but I don’t think I’ll be able to break out of this in a large school.”</p>

<p>But to answer your question, the above quote is what made me change my mind. If you find the thought of attending PSU depressing, you will not do well there.</p>

16

<p>Since it seems like your parents can afford it, I think you should probably pick swarthmore. you’d find a better fit, more people you connect with, a smaller environment to push you harder, and still have the possibility of expanding your horizons by taking classes at other colleges (haverford, upenn, etc)</p>

<p>if you go to swarthmore or visit again, check out a Boy Meets Tractor show. it’s a fantastic comedy skit group that my bff’s sister is in. my bff and I went up to swat to see them and they were doing a show with haverford’s group as guests, it was hilarious. we also spent the night in her sisters dorm and went to a few parties. the social scene is very laidback and there are a ton of quirky people, it seems like you’d like it</p>

17

<p>The thought of PSU isn’t what’s depressing, the thought of high school is what’s depressing.</p>

<p>The thing is.. wouldn’t I form better relationships and get more attention from professors where I’m at the top of the food chain rather than when I’m just an average student?</p>

<p>Wouldn’t I be more motivated when I’m at the forefront of discussions, instead of just being able to chime in every now and then to interrupt people who are smarter than me? At PSU I’d either slip into mediocre obscurity or rise to take the spotlight, but at Swat I feel like I’m guaranteed (and stuck with) a spot in the middle.</p>

18

<p>well thats the thing. if you think that you are more likely to “rise to take the spotlight” at PSU, then go. if you think its more likely you’d “slip into mediocre obscurity,” then don’t. Only you know yourself well enough to predict how you’d do. You just need to sit down and honestly think about your work ethic and response to a lack of pressure.<br>
From what you’ve said, it seems like without a little pressure, you tend to be unmotivated. Thats why it seems like Swarthmore is a better fit. A smaller school, more people who know you and care about how you are doing. At PSU you’d have to make a CONSCIOUS EFFORT to work your hardest, whereas at Swat, you’ll probably end up working your hardest because thats just what everyone’s doing, and it’s expected of you–being around highly motivated, hardworking, intellectual people tends to motivate you to work your hardest.</p>

19

<p>something you should probably know about swarthmore…many of the students have been driven to work hard their whole lives just to get into a school of this caliber. therefore, many of them end up addicted to drugs and alcoholics. i know this because a family friend’s daughter attends swarthmore and i have never heard someone talk about their college experience so negatively. yes, it has good academics, but i think penn state is just as good, if not better. it isn’t a very nice college town, which is the nice part about state college @ psu.
honestly, i would go with psu because you would be happier there.
yes, it is known for partying, but there are plenty of hardworking students like yourself and i think you would benefit from psu in the long run, especially with the money situation.
hope that helped?</p>

20

<p>

Evidence behind this assertion?</p>