<p>So, mini, what you are saying is that the non-traditional student is actually the typical student.
And the quintessential college experience is the exception, not the norm. Good to keep that in mind for perspective.</p>
<p>In some ways, the elite LACs and Ivyesque colleges seem like boarding schools, especially when it comes to social behavior. But maybe that is a good thing. Perhaps one shouldn’t be in too much of a hurry to grow up…</p>
<p>@ Interested Dad - the drinking on campuses was a problem that I was blind to until college admissions time. (call me naive). D does not drink and her friends are same so I was really unaware of how much young people drink. (again, call me naive). </p>
<p>D also applied to haverford and the drinking was (to her, at least) intolerable and that was most of the reason she declined their offer of admission. I was surprised by her decision because she loved Haverford until she went for an over-night visit and saw the extent of the drinking. </p>
<p>I assumed that PSU would also have alot of drinking because it was so…erm…full of testerone?! (sorry, but that was my impression of the campus). I was, if I am honest, very concerned with my 17 year old D being on that campus. D actually liked the campus but I think she would have felt differently had she spent the night there. Anyway, our decision was made for us because PSU did not give D enough financial aid.</p>
<p>Surprised to hear that Haverford is a big drinking school. Doesn’t quite fit what I’ve heard are the contributing factors (greek life, out in the middle of nowhere, etc). But I think these things don’t always fit in the neat categories that are put out in these studies. And why would Swarthmore be so different from Haverford (similar size, similar location, similar prestige)?<br>
I have a friend with a d at an popular urban campus. She works in a hospital on campus and sees a huge number of kids come in with alcohol poisoning. Says they “pre-game” with hard alcohol in the dorms and then hit the bars with fake ids. Many come home trashed. So, not it’s not the typical frat party scene, but just as bad from what I hear.
It seems it’s pretty hard to escape this stuff…</p>
<p>I’ve seen some mixed messages from Haverford, but I don’t think it is a super big drinking school. </p>
<p>More than Swarthmore. Maybe somewhere around the national average for surveyed “binge drinking”, but not a world-class party school and not up there with some of the heavy drinking LACs in New England and rural Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>Haverford did have one rash of alcohol poisonings reported in the school newspaper a couple of years ago…that’s usually an indicator. But, that hasn’t been a consistent theme.</p>
<p>Diversity stats will tell you a lot about the potential for heavy drinking. Asian Americans and African Americans statistically have surveyed binge drinking rates about half that of white students. Females much lower than males. So the demographics of a school play a fundamental role.</p>
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<p>Swarthmore was co-ed from day one. Haverford was all-male until 1980 or so. The formerly all-male schools have more “male” campus cultures even today and that means more drinking.</p>
<p>Also, Haverford relies more heavily on full-pay students. Drinking correlates with higher income students. It’s expensive to drink heavily often.</p>
<p>Finally, Swarthmore is one of the most diverse colleges on the east coast. It’s only 56% white US students. Binge drinking is statistically a white student pastime. </p>
<p>There’s a critical mass where heavy drinking becomes the norm. Surveyed binge drinking rates in the low 30% range are just below that critical mass, so it doesn’t feel like the entire campus is blotto, even though there are still plenty of drinkers.</p>
<p>@ toneranger - not sure if haverford is a big drinking school (and interested dad gives some stats that suggest that it may simply be at the national average); I was just noting that there was more drinking there than was tolerable for D. She does not like drinking at all - so she may have been more sensitive to what may have been (statistically speaking) moderate drinking. </p>
<p>I actually asked D if there was not drinking on all campuses and wouldn’t she find this problem everywhere. She said yes but that she wanted a campus where there was other things to do besides drinking/parties. She said that at Haverford there was not anything else to do on campus except to goto parties which of course = alcohol. Dont know if this is true or not - just the perceptions of a teenager.</p>
<p>@ Interested dad - the diversity at swarthmore is amazing and the committment a school’s administration must have to achieve that is testimony to what can be done with the right will. Swarthmore is a showcase for all those misguided souls that think URM = under-achieving students!</p>
<p>joix - Haverford is right on a train line that goes into Philly. Lots to do there. But perhaps the students tend to stay on campus. It’ s in the well-to-do suburbs of Philly and there are some restaurants and movie houses…not a whole lot though.<br>
Also, I think small drinking school vs big drinking school might make a difference. I know a non-drinker at PSU who has found a pretty large group of friends with common interests. Wasn’t really difficult given the number of clubs and all. After all, even if the drinking rate is high, there are still thousands who abstain. It’s just that they’re not very visible…
And yes you still DO have to put up with the loud drunks roaming the campus.</p>
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<p>Yes, but once one is hooked, alcohol sort of has a rather inelastic demand curve, doesn’t it?</p>