Turning down the Ivy Leagues for....

College Search & Selection
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<p>Mom2collegekids, you are on a roll. Stanford and Cal are both in California. Only OOS at UVa</p>

<p>Xiggi!!</p>

<p>LOL…</p>

<p>Of course I know that Cal and Stanford are both in Calif. Is the OP in Calif? For some odd reason I was thinking the OP was from OOS. Does the OP say say a home state somewhere???</p>

<p>*But if the athlete is in the full-ride FA range at say, Harvard, he might prefer to play there without a contract rather than being, excuse the expression, enslaved to a coach at Stanford. *</p>

<p>Bay…I think the student said that the family won’t qualify for much/any aid at the ivies, but I could be wrong. I think the family doesn’t want to pay full freight. And a kid who’d get tons of aid from Harvard would also get it at Stanford.</p>

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<p>The OP said:

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<p>^Yes, I know, thank you mom2collegekids. But texaspg asked the question in the rhetorical sense (post #17), as in, why would any athlete choose Ivy over Stanford. That is what I was responding to. You are right that it would not apply to OP.</p>

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<p>I am not sure why a player at Stanford is enslaved but one at Harvard would not be.</p>

<p>However, Andrew Luck seems to prefer enslavement when he could have made 10 million dollars in NFL this year. Must be some really good whips at Stanford perhaps?</p>

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<p>^^Because you aren’t a scholarship athlete at Harvard and you are at Stanford. Both are D1, but there is D1 and then there is Ivy D1. My son chose an Ivy over some other D1 schools for his sport for a number of reasons, and having more time for academics was one of them.</p>

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<p>I don’t believe Andrew Luck could have played at Stanford without signing an NLI, while at Harvard it would be impossible for the coaches to make him sign one.</p>

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<p>*-I live in the Bay Area, and wanted to get away from home. *</p>

<p>Ah, I missed that…I was looking for “California”. Thanks. </p>

<p>That said, it seems odd that 2 schools are providing full rides for equivalency sports - especially UVA which is OOS. But I don’t know how that works for OOS, dollars, and Title IX…is it just by % of head regardless if OOS costs more?</p>

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<p>It obviously happens often. This student at the University of Michigan turned down a full ride from Harvard in favor for Michigan. I guess playing football in front of 115,000 fans meant more to him than anything else. What’s impressive to me is that he was not even recruited when he chose to go to Michigan. He actually took a chance and joined Michigan before successfully walking-on the football team.</p>

<p>[Anderson</a> Chose the Michigan Difference over the Ivy League - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site](<a href=“http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091511aac.html]Anderson”>http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091511aac.html)</p>

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<p>Stardom in sport does not come cheap. If you are not good enough to sign a contract in college …</p>

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<p>At the time he decided to stay at Stanford, there was the uncertainty of the NFL lockout, which could have resulted in not being able to play either college or professional football at all.</p>

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<p>UCB - I don’t believe that was THE reason he stayed back. He wants a national championship and just may be a Heisman?</p>

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<p>Have you considered rice? Great school, generous aide, far from home, huge city, green and gated campus. Athletics are division 1.</p>

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<p>I am not sure why people insist on using terms that are so easily debunked by facts. Facts that are extremely easy to find with two clicks of google! So let’s go to this short list:</p>

<p>“It obviously happens often.” </p>

<p>What is it that happens often? That people pretend that students turn down an Ivy League school for a less prestigious school? Or that the turning down does happen? Here is the answer: IT HARDLY HAPPENS! AND SURELY NOT OFTEN!</p>

<p>Here’s how you look at the data. Take a look at the yield numbers and then place a reasonable guesstimate on the Ivy League cross-admits. A large number of the students lost through yield attrition ends up at an EQUALLY prestigious school. Yes, there are students who decide to turn down an Ivy League school, but usually for substantial merit or a very specific opportunity. An extremely small number of students will decide for an equally prestigious outside the Ivy League. </p>

<p>But based on easy to retrieve numbers, positing that it happens “often” is preposterous. Unless one confuses cross-applications with cross-admits. In the case of Harvard and Michigan, there are plenty of the former and very few of the latter! </p>

<p>A full ride from Harvard</p>

<p>At the risk of being a stickler for correct terms, let’s be clear. There are NO full rides at Harvard that are similar to athletic or merit scholarships. Every penny of the “ride” is provided through financial aid that is 100 percent based on need. The scholarship described by Alexandre in the article is also 100 percent based on need. All it does is replace a portion or all of the student’s contribution.</p>

<p>Speaking about often, what happens often is that articles written about athletes tend to confuse or mislead the readers about merit scholarships and need-based ones. Sometimes by ignorance, sometimes by design.</p>

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<p>Andrew Luck stayed so he could utterly and completely destroy Kal one more time not because he was afraid of the NFL situation.</p>

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<p>xiggi, Many top students in states like Michigan, California, and Virginia do not even bother to apply to Ivy League schools and their supposed equivalents. There are very good public options in these states More are applying recently, I suppose, because of the more recent middle class ,URM, first gen initiatives . Most people in general do not seem to be as obsessed with rankings and prestige as the average person on CC. Most people want the best education for their kids at a reasonable price , unless they are wealthy and of course wealth has always offered more options. The OP will do fine at any of the schools on the table currently. Just pick the one that has the best financial and personal fit and all will be well. And yea, Go Hoos!</p>

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<p>Do you think I would disagree with any of the above? It is obvious that top students do apply to their state flagship university. It is also obvious that some do apply to schools that have more of a regional or national appeal. And that a few of those do end up getting a fat letter. </p>

<p>However, I am not sure if that changes anything to the point I made about the “turning down” being mostly part of the folklore and that such accounts are mostly mythical and fantastic. Mythical and fantastic in all senses of the words!</p>

<p>Again, to be able to turn down a school, you have to both apply and be accepted. Can’t turn down a school without an acceptance. And that is why it does not happen often and why the student bodies are hardly interchangeable.</p>

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<p>I think I understand better now,xiggi, what you are saying. Thanks!</p>

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<p>xiggi, full rides can be merit or need based. Most regulars on CC know that the Ivy League only provide need-based aid. Without going into my endless credentials, that certainly applies to me. It goes without saying that In the case of Anderson, the Gates and Melinda Gates Foundation scholarship was need-based. The link I provided clearly states that. The fact remains that he chose Michigan over Harvard when he had a full-tuition at both schools.</p>

<p>And xiggi, it does happen often. If by “often”, you are trying to insinuate that I mean tens of thousands of students annually, you are purposely looking for a debate, which was not the purpose of my post above. I obviously meant it relatively. Students choose non-Ivy League institutions over Ivy League institutions by the thousands every single year. With the exception of Harvard and Yale, most Ivy League schools have yield rates in the 50%-60% range, give or take a couple percentage points. Below are the total numbers extracted entirely from common data sets (except for Columbia which conspicuously has no CDS): </p>

<p>Brown University:
Admitted: 2,815
Enrolled: 1,501
Turned down offer: 1,314
Yield: 53%</p>

<p>Columbia University (the only Ivy League with no CDS):
Admitted: 2,400
Enrolled: 1,391
Turned down offer: 1,009
Yield: 58%</p>

<p>Cornell University:
Admitted: 6,673
Enrolled: 3,178
Turned down offer: 3,495
Yield: 48%</p>

<p>Dartmouth College:
Admitted: 2,193
Enrolled: 1,139
Turned down offer: 1,054
Yield: 52%</p>

<p>Harvard College:
Admitted: 2,175
Enrolled: 1,658
Turned down offer: 517
Yield: 76%</p>

<p>Princeton University:
Admitted: 2,311
Enrolled: 1,312
Turned down offer: 999
Yield: 57%</p>

<p>University of Pennsylvania:
Admitted: 3,841
Enrolled: 2,410
Turned down offer: 1,431
Yield: 63%</p>

<p>Yale University:
Admitted: 2,039
Enrolled: 1,344
Turned down offer: 695
Yield: 66%</p>

<p>Altogether, 24,447 were admitted of which 13,933 enrolled (57%). Of the remaining 10,514 (43%) students, a large chunk go to other Ivy Leage universities or top schools such as Cal, Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Michigan, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, UVa, WUSTL etc… but many go to “lesser” schools for whatever reason, be they personal or financial.</p>

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<p>UVa!!!</p>

<p>They’re great with financial aid and scholarships. I would know-I’m an OOS First-year =]
I visited Brown/Princeton/etc… last year, and was very impressed (who isnt?), but come take a tour, you’ll be hooked! ;)</p>

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<p>what do you mean by “many” above?</p>

<p>out of the 10,514, how many go to lesser schools?
1,000?
500?
100?
50?</p>