<p>No one knows. Most things stated in this thread as fact is mere conjecture.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I am not sure what you hoped to accomplish by quoting statistics I know well.</p>
<p>As far insinuating things, I will leave that up to you. Feel free to play with the meaning of often and obviously as you please. Perhaps we should speak about percentages! But then I would not be surprised that you might consider one or two percent points to be often. Obviously often. And I will call it … Rarely.</p>
<p>Blah is correct. There is no way of knowing. The number, however, is likely not negligible, whether it runs in the hundreds or thousands is impossible to ascertain.</p>
<p>xiggy, just to clarify, when I said “it happens often”, I was referring to students who turn down Ivy League schools for non-Ivy League schools, including other elites such as Cal, Chicago, Duke, JHU, Michigan, MIT, Northwestern, Stanford and UVa. Those number are far greater than 2%. I won’t bother estimating since there is no way of knowing for sure, but to assume that over 10,000 of the 10,500 students who turn down Ivy League schools individually are magically recycled into another Ivy League is statistically improbable, if not down right impossible.</p>
<p>Again, I am not sure what fault you found in my post above as it was entirely accurate. Full rides can be merit or need based (in the case above need based) and many students do in fact turn down Ivy League schools for non-Ivy League schools, relative to the number of students who are admitted into Ivy League schools in the first place obviously.</p>
<p>If I was in your position I would pick either Stanford, Berkeley, or Virginia only because I’m willing to turn down a Harvard or Princeton education for great athletics. If you want to get away from home then go to Virginia. The campus is great, it’s ranked #3 for public universities, and just look at the architecture of the school. It was designed by Thomas Jefferson. I live in southern California and I’ve been to Berkeley so I don’t know if you’re into what they have their. It’s a great school, ranked #1 for public universities, but I personally think there are WAY to many hippies their. And Stanford has great academics, #5 nationally, and great football. Andrew Luck is majoring in architecture. I know what you are going through. I don’t want to go to school close to home either. I’ll probably try and transfer to either Virginia or UCSD (even though it is an hour away from my home, the campus if great, the academics are excellent, and it’s on the beach). But if you really don’t want to be close to home then go to Virginia. I don’t know if you’ve read the book I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell or *******s Finish First by Tucker Max, but in his book he says he got accepted to University of Chicago, Duke University, and University of Virginia, and he says he wishes he would’ve chosen Virginia over Chicago.</p>
<p>xiggi, settle down. I’m not here to fight. Why do you always have to be so combatant when you say something about topics related to Cal? In other words: Why do you hate Cal so much? </p>
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<p>I am aware that a lot of students have turned down Cal for Stanford. I’ve seen the links which were posted on here for 2 years running now and the report was something I totally expected, though your 1,700 is too high. (Where did you get that, btw?) The cross-admits between Cal and Stanford are something like 600++ a year only. </p>
<p>Why do those kids turned down Cal for Stanford? I have reasons to believe why they think Stanford would be the better choice for them, and I think the top 2 reasons were: PRESTIGE and COST. But if Berkeley can compete with Stanford in cost, Berkeley would be able to steal more than 7 cross-admits from Stanford every year. I bet it would attract those kids from the middle-class who rely heavily on scholarships. I am almost sure that Berkeley’s low yield rate for OOS and Int’l students is due largely to the fact that Berkeley does not provide financial aid for them. But why would I spend 200k for a Stanford engineering, for example, if I can get the same engineering degree from Cal for free? The OP specifically said that he can study at Cal for free. He did not mention how much would it cost him to attend Stanford though. If the price difference is negligible, Stanford would be the better choice. But if the difference means a world for him, as he mentioned that Cal would be free for him, then Cal is the obvious better choice.</p>
<p>RML - I am guessing a lot of cross admits at Cal and Stanford from California since Stanford accepts 40% Californians. So doesn’t that give Cal an automatic advantage with in state tuition for cost?</p>
<p>OP is clear that Stanford is preferable to Ivies which can only mean full athletic scholarship?</p>
<p>OP,</p>
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<p>Stanford is not the only “Ivy of the West”. There are several of them there actually: Caltech, Berkeley, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, McKenna, and to a lesser extent, UCLA, USC, UCSD and UCSB. </p>
<p>The difference between Stanford and Cal isn’t really big. On CC, it is. Yes; there is a difference. But it’s not something some posters on CC make it out to be. Outside of CC, Stanford and Berkeley are considered word-class schools. Most people would acknowledge that Stanford is the superior school for undergrad. But I guess, almost the same people would also acknowledge that the academics at Berkeley isn’t that behind, if at all it is behind Stanford’s. The opportunities you can get by going to Stanford are also offered at Berkeley, though the law of averages would make Stanford a more favorable school for undergrad. But just the same, if you’ll do well at Berkeley and graduate at the top of your class you can head-to-head with the very best students from anywhere.</p>
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<p>Berkeley IS tuition isn’t that cheap anymore. And, unless you’re Regent’s, it’s basically a uniform rate. Stanford, OTOH, has some of the most generous fin aid anywhere. </p>
<p>For rich people who can afford to burn 250k for an undergrad degree, Stanford is the obvious choice. But for those who aren’t that financially fortunate, Stanford can match other school’s offer/tuition rate including those in-state at Cal. But that’s not what I was pointing out in my previous post. I was trying to point out that Berkeley would certainly be able to attract more cross-admits coming from the middle-class and lower-income families if the school can provide better fin aid and the whole Berkeley undergrad degree would come out substantially cheaper than Stanford’s. Money matters mostly for kids from the low-income bracket.</p>
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Alex, the numbers were not mutually exclusive! i.e., a lot of students were cross-admitted by two or more schools. It is not a simple addition problem. The number that those ivy admits went to other non-ivy schools should be much smaller than the number you mentioned.</p>
<p>ewho, that is what I said. Read the section you quoted above closely and you will see that I clearly stated that many of those 10,500 go to other Ivies and other top universities.</p>
<p>What sport do you play? Is it something you might consider playing professionally? This might play in to your decision. For example, if you are a phenomenal baseball player who wants to go pro, I might suggest UVa since their baseball team consistently goes to the CWS. If you are a good football player, I might say Stanford. If you have no desire to pursue sports outside of college, I’d probably suggest Stanford. I realize it’s close; however, it’s a great school and apparently for you, a great value.</p>
<p>OP wrote:</p>
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<p>Clearly, the sport is not football or baseball.</p>
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<p>Stanford financial aid is extremely generous, to the point that its net cost is lower than for in-state UC in most family income brackets (assuming need aid only, not other scholarships including athletic).</p>
<p>Is there a policy at UCs with FA that would be considered free money? For some reason I feel most State schools are depending on loans when they mention FA being available.</p>
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LOL! Maybe typing too fast in the quest to hit 30K posts? just a thought… ;)</p>
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<p>No one “hates Cal so much,” RML. You always seem to confuse “not bowing down to Cal” with “hating Cal.” If you left California, you might be surprised to find out that the biggest reaction to Cal is often indifference, not hatred.</p>
<p>^ But I think xiggi is very much aware that I’m not in California, but on the other side of the globe. And I don’t remember praising Cal too much to irritate the guy. Please reread my posts on this thread. Anyways, there’s a certain tone on xiggi’s post that one can easily spot his b/p went up to 140/110 from the usual 120/80 when he has to make a remark about Cal.</p>
<p>easily spot his b/p went up to 140/110 from the usual 120/80 - Normal occurrence with Stanford alums when Cal is mentioned.</p>
<p>OP,
How much to do you love playing your sport? What do you think the chances are that you might want to quit when you get to college?</p>
<p>If you go to Cal or UVA on full-scholarship (does it include r+b?), or Stanford on partial, and decide during/after freshman year that D1 collegiate athletics is too demanding or no longer interests you, you will be stuck paying $50K for Stanford OOS ($50K?) for UVA and $25K for Cal. Obviously, Cal would be the best choice if you have doubts about continuing to play.</p>