Two at a time ...

<p>Okay, so first of all, all of the colleges I visited (in order) are Tufts, Boston College, Brown, Yale, UPenn, Haverford, and Georgetown.</p>

<p>My thoughts on Tufts, Brown, and Gtown:</p>

<p>Tufts: You can feel that the students at Tufts are making the most of their college years. There is a sense of productivity and eagerness that the campus exudes. The dining hall was satisfactory with decent food, nothing too impressive. Some things that I did not really enjoy: the surrounding area, how the campus is built on a hill, and some attitudes of various students. The surrounding area is very residential and simply mundane. There is not much to do, and Boston is much farther away than the brochures make you think. The hill was just plain inconvenient, period. Lastly, you've heard of "Tuft's syndrome"? Well, in short, Tuft's Syndrome is the feeling that many students get when they go there, because they are, frankly, "Ivy League rejects." Many students seemed to be disappointed that they were not across the bay at Harvard. </p>

<p>Brown: I really liked Brown. Providence was very suprising because it was so much nicer and more metropolitan than I thought it would be. It also is very close to New York and Boston, just in case you feel like you need a bigger city every once in a while. Brown's campus, however, was strange, but not in a bad way. There were two(ish) main quads that were very traditional and collegiate, i.e. old pretty buildings enclosing a nice grassy square. However, the little houses around Brown are all owned by Brown, and are often used for classes. I felt that this decentralized academic life a little bit, however. also I liked the Pembroke campus, though it felt a little deserted. The administrators, however, did come off as a little (rather, a fair amount) pretentious, and too engrossed in the fact that they work at an "Ivy League." The students seemed friendly, but tried too hard to be "different"- you could tell that much of the "unique-ness" was forced. Thayer street is also very cool.</p>

<p>Georgetown: Well, yes, I am biased. Georgetown was my favorite! (I did apply EA.) There are those old, traditional stone buildings on campus (i.e. Healy Hall), but there is also a large amount of new construction (much of it ongoing). The construction, however, is due to end next April. All of the students seemed very friendly, and no one was really that stressed (i.e. at many other campuses, you can tell that people are too focused and stressed out about academics. At Georgetown, there were a lot of chatting, smiling students just hanging around). The administrators were friendly and helpful, too. My favorite part of the school, however, was the surrounding area (Georgetown, and also its proximity to DC). Georgetown is a very cute yet sophisticated cityish suburbish town. M street was very fun (great restaurants!), and the area is absolutely gorgeous (building-wise and nature-wise). DC is also an amazing place to be near, since it is such a center of everything (politics, business, history, etc.). I will not lie, though, because there were some less than desirable things about it. First is that GTown is under the flight path of many planes coming from Reagan Int'l (this isn't as bad as you think, because you get used to them fast. By the end of my visit, I wasn't even notocing them). Second is that there are some ugly (and some positively atrocious) buildings. The library, for one, looks like a nightmare of cement dreamed up in the 70s, and then put through a blender. It is enshrouded in trees, though, so its not that bad. Harbin Hall, the only really tall building on campus, is also a little on the ugly side. Healy Hall, however, is amazing. It is without a doubt one of the most beautiful and impressive buildings I have ever seen on a college campus. Hoya Saxa!</p>

<p>I hope that this helps!</p>

<p>PS- Thirdtime: How did you know that I like Georgetown? And how do you know (or why do you think) that I am a good writer? Just curious. :)</p>

<p>Calidan -- Your writing? Well, isn't it obvious? See above! One can tell how articulate you are from reading some of your posts, same way I know of your interest in Georgetown.
My daughter looked at all 3 of those schools, liked G'town ALOT, wasn't as impressed with Brown, felt people were trying to out-weird each other and applied ED to Tufts. After one visit went back for an overnight, went to classes etc. and instead of liking it less, liked it more.......</p>

<p>I would be surprised if a student who liked GTown also liked Brown. To me, Tufts felt weird. The town felt very odd. It was like no other town I have visited. I got the "small town" feel, which was surprising and turned me off. Of course, my son's perception is what matters and he liked it enough to decide to apply if ED doesn't work out. I didn't like Tufts at all. I didin't like the adcom who led the session, the students led the tour seemed bored and annoyed with it, the campus felt weird and the town was just strange to me. But, again, it's not me going and I keep my opinion to myself unless it matches my son's. </p>

<p>Our Brown info session was fun. The tour guide was the best of any of the colleges we've visited. I missed 90% of the tour because my 6 yr old D injured her foot as the tour began and we had to go to the car for the first aid kit. My son came away with a sure feeling of liking it and placing it at #2. </p>

<p>Georgetown, he hated it. I thought he was willing to reconsider but he's adamant. part of it has to do with it being Catholic (as we are). But, during the tour they kept emphasizing this and that about what special perks Catholics get (can be burried in the graveyard, can be married in the chapel) and son launched into his "see, they're separating the catholics and non-catholics", which is not PC...that was the end of that. Plus, the students seemed very uptight and not friendly (unhappy?). </p>

<p>But, a visit a few blocks away to GWU was a different story. He loved it. They're on the "getting an app" list. </p>

<p>Others visited:
Yale got a nod when we visited but was later axed simply for being part of HYP.<br>
Harvard: wouldn't visit (even when we overnighted in Cambridge on the campus) - same reasons as above. Princeton, visited and toyed with his cell phone and text messaged his friends all throughout the info session. At some point early in the tour he just started to walk away.......and I followed asking what was up. He said "I CANNOT go here!" as he kept walking towards the car and I trotted behind him to catch up....I think they were explaining the dining clubs when he walked off. It was then that I realized that no matter how much of a shot he had, he was not going to consider HYP. </p>

<p>Swarthmore: We visietd over Easter break...wrong time. This was also the FIRST school he ever visited. He said it was too quiet and he was imagining all of the students locked in their rooms banging on the windows for help as we walked around. We didin't see one soul on campus, other than the tour people. But, there was no point in revisiitng because he soon realized that he wanted a larger school with a more social armosphere. </p>

<p>Wesleyan: He liked it when we visited. I got a weird feeling from it. It wasn't what I expected in terms of campus. He would have fit in well as he's quite PC and definitely marches to his own beat. But, I would really like to see him mainstream a little more (uh, wanna try wearing something other than sandals WITH socks in the winter?) . So, I was ok with it when he decided not to apply. But, he did like it. They win for best info session room. Just georgeous!!</p>

<p>Amherst: too remote, too small...decided not to apply. Really beautiful campus, though. Great school, obviously.</p>

<p>And, the grand prize winner of them all: PENN. It fired on all cylinders of his main criteria.....
Large city-urban; close to home-allows his to build on existing cultural, civic, employment, political and family relationships; more moderate climate than New England schools; larger school - over 5k students; affiliation with and in close proximity to major museums; social opportunities (oppty to party-let's call a spade ad spade); opportunity to pledge a same frat chapter (not just same frat, but same chapter) as grandpop did, which makes grandpop especially proud (is there a legacy clause for such things in frats??) ; and decent chance of getting in ED so that he won't have to think about any of this after Dec 10 (yes, this was part of his personal "reason's why".</p>

<p>There are three sight-unseen schools that will get apps if ED doesn't work out and two sight-unseen safeties that have already gotten apps.</p>

<p>Calidan, what did you think of Penn and Haverford?</p>

<p>Re Interesteddad's comments on sports at Williams: Williams’ recruiting and spending patterns on sports haven’t concerned me because I know that they are also recruiting and spending in many other areas, e.g. art, theater, diversity, music, science, tutorials. I feel strongly that although Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore/Wesleyan (and as mentioned elsewhere you could lump in Pomona as well) each have different “feels”, none should be eliminated out of hand because of perceived stereotypes. Nixing a college because of location and physical environment I can see; not everyone wants to be in the Berkshires, in New England, in a suburb of Philadelphia, or Southern California. These are black and whites. It’s believing the stereotypes that I would caution against. Before we visited colleges, my son (and I) were convinced that Amherst would be his #1 choice. Swarthmore was too pretentiously brainy, Wesleyan too weird and druggy, Williams too straight and athletic. After visiting, Amherst dropped out of the race (hard to say why, probably one of those arbitrary reactions) and Williams, Swarthmore and Wesleyan became fairly equal favorites. His impression that a non-athlete artist with a wicked sense of humor could thrive at Williams turned out to be accurate. The museums were the eggs in the beer. I contend that most kids could be happy at any of these schools and only a visit can determine which is the best fit.</p>

<p>Momrath:</p>

<p>I would strongly consider Williams for an art history major. It is one of the school's real strengths.</p>

<p>I do, however, believe that the stereotypes of these schools have some basis in reality. For example, all of the Swarthmore stereotypes, while they may be exaggerated, so reflect to some degree reality. </p>

<p>Here's the recent "Report on Athletics" prepared by the Williams Ad Hoc Faculty Committee on Athletics as requested by Pres. Morty Shapiro. Williams' perceived over-emphasis on athletics is apparently the most common question Shapiro receives at alumni functions, something that may have prompted this analysis: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.ephblog.com/archives/images/athletic_report.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ephblog.com/archives/images/athletic_report.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Great impressions of all of your visits.<br>
Momsdream - what did you think of the surrounding area of Penn in terms of safety? I've heard mixed reviews, obviously it was not a deterrant to your son.<br>
GW seems to be a very "hot" school around here ... one complaint is that they have no true campus dining halls which makes for very expensive eating even though the school bills for what they call a meal plan. I've heard that they do have an excellent honors program ... also heard, however, that GW may be the most expensive school in the country right now.
Has anyone toured Emory or Rochester? I am going to start a new thread for college tours so perhaps they can all be in one place.</p>

<p>First of all, thanks Thirdtime! You brightened my day. :)</p>

<p>Next: Penn and Haverford...</p>

<p>Penn: I actually like Penn a lot. I was warned about students being pretentious and snobby, with their whole "popped collar" attitude, but they were all very warm and affable. In terms of city campuses, I thought Penn was amazing. I loved Locust Walk, and the surrounding area was not as bad as people say. It was a tad on the large side, however, which was a turn-off. There also seemed to be a very strong emphasis on preprofessionalism, which doesn't really appeal to me (in little doses, it's fine, but Penn lived and breathed preprofessionalism). Wharton does seem to be a little over-exalted, and in a way deprives the other schools of the recognition that they deserve. I loved Philly (however was disappointed with the Cheese Steaks!). It is a very culturally rich city (I had a predisposition of it being an industrial city, so I was very pleasantly suprised). After my visit, Penn actually became my second choice.</p>

<p>Haverford: I really liked Haverford, but my twin downright adored it. You can feel that there is a very close-knit community there. For me, it was way too small, but some people like that. It had one of the most gorgeous campuses I have ever seen, though. (The campus is actually an arboretum! I thought that that was cool.) While the students we met were all very nice, many of them seemed to be studying a lot. Some things that really stood out to me were the relationship with Bryn Mawr (which is so advantageous for both student bodies), the reverence for the honor code (I thought that this was extremely mature, and it really showcased well the mindsets of the students there: trusting and logical), and everyone's love for the school. Everybody we met was simply ecstatic to be going there. I really loved that about the school.</p>

<p>Twinmom, if your D considers Smith, there are both Smith parents (me, Mini, ???) and Smith students (Ticklemepink, Stacy) on this board. I'll try to curb my enthusiasm unless you ask a question. My D is extremely happy there.</p>

<p>Momsdream: my D like G'town and was willing to consider Brown before scratching it off the list. A data point. Go figure.</p>

<p>One point about visiting campuses: <em>when</em> you visit matters very much. We first visited Georgetown for info session and tour on a Sunday that was the end of a four-day mini-break. Session & tour were okay but campus was dead. Came back the next day when all the students were back and it was a very different, much better, experience.</p>

<p>Momsdream, fraternities definitely give special consideration to legacies--I think it varies from frat to frat as to how much. My S joined the same frat as his dad, and they think it's cool that they're now brothers, too!</p>

<p>I suggest two things: (actually I'll probably have more) - finding the "fit" and "sharpening the hooks". My reasoning goes like this 25% of the actual student body at 98 of the top 100 college and universities in the country (including Harvard/Yale/Swarthmore/Penn/Duke, etc.) have SAT Is below 1380 (and in 90 of those 100, many more than 25%). So what got them (or anyone else, with very rare exceptions) into the school was not likely their SAT scores. There was obviously something else seen by adcoms that made them believe that these applicants would help the school fulfill its institutional mission. The job of your d and s is to find out what that is, and accentuate it.</p>

<p>Having said that, in many cases if they truly find a "fit", and can express what that is, the school will want them every bit as much as they want the school. (think marriage?)</p>

<p>Finally, while we make a point of looking at the finer points of all these fine schools, they are ALL fine schools. There is no doubt in my mind that for every applicant (with some rare exceptions) there are at least a score of schools where the student will flourish, find what they need, be happy, and grow. As long as they don't get too hung up on any one reach school, (or one which you might not be able to afford), they'll do just fine.</p>

<p>(For the record, my d.'s final choices came down to Williams - where she was heavily recruited (and my alma mater) - and Smith, and chose Smith. For HER, they just had an awful lot more, especially in languages, Junior Year Abroad opportunities, music, a paid research assistantship in her first two years and in her field of interest, greater diversity (other than Y chromosomes) a happening town, and a Quaker meeting down the street. Others might find otherwise.)</p>

<p>I haven't read the whole thread but I will say that in 2 cases that we know of boy girl twins where the focus was LAC the boy faired much better in positive admissions decisions. Similar rank, Sat score and both heavily involved in similar ec's.</p>

<p>Many thanks to all for the insights and information you have offered. I will share your thoughts with D and S. Now they need to get their calendars synchronized to start planning visitations!</p>

<p>Mom60, there have been several articles about males getting a "bump" because there are fewer at any given level among applicants at the higher end.</p>

<p>I believe this has been said before, but I have definitely noticed that at honor society inductions at D and S's school, the number of female inductees always outweighs that of the males.</p>

<p>Mini--"Sharpening the hooks"--I like that. Would you mind if I used it on occasion?</p>