<p>Berurah: re law school admissions, my understanding (second- or third-hand) is that for law schools what counts most is LSAT and GPA. Specific undergraduate schools and majors are less of interest. Some law schools will factor in some recognition for applicants who have taken tough undergrad majors or went to harder-grading schools; some supposedly won't give any. Supposedly no schools give a lot of importance to that factor.</p>
<p>So one thing to check (and, as I said before, in general) is the grading practices at both schools (if you can get any concrete information).</p>
<p>If you haven't got enough things going at the moment, check the CC law school board, as this question is discussed frequently, including experiences of Ariesathena, a chemical engineering graduate from Tufts who has recently gone through the process and is now in her first year in law school. If your S is considering attending a more local law school, that may or may not be a factor; check with those schools as well, if you have time.</p>
<p>Jami did not mean to make you nervous about money other than merit. In fact, I have always advised those getting merit money to make sure the terms are reasonable and that there is a good track record of people keeping the scholarships. About 10 (I can't believe it's that long ago--but Yep) years ago, Case got a bad rap in Pittsburgh cuz so many kids lost their merit money. It did cause Case to revamp their merit process, and my understanding is that it is a better situation now--part of the problem was that a 3.2 average which was then required was really quite ornerous for engineering majors to maintain, and one term under could sink you. It has been reduced and cumulative terms are used for gpa determination now. </p>
<p>Hopkins is stingy with financial aid though the stats say they pretty much meet all need. There is a poster here who was gapped her entire EFC of $10k , I think because she is ED (Hopkins openly says ED kids are not considered for some grants) and possibly because her Hopkins EFC is not in the range of her federal EFC. Having dealt extensively with their financial aid office, I can tell you it is no pleasure. Neither is Duke's, for that matter, but I think they have more money, I would rather be on FA at Duke than at Hopkins. However, with that grant, you may still be able to get work study at Hopkins since federal money is not affected by private scholarship over the EFC, and work out some research and workstudy, a great, winning combo for your son. My nephew did this extensively. He never really came home after going to Hopkins and had the most terrific research opportunies in the world, and is now going into medical research. When you visit, do check about that possibility. Also ask about whatever loans are available and their terms to augment that merit money. Doubt they'll give you a dime more in grant, and you are not eligible for federal grant money, but a good loan with favorable terms is not a bad extra. Cuz, you know the cost of attending (COA) is gonna be about $45K and though that is fantastic grant, that leaves more than $20 K out of pocket. Outside awards are scarce after the first year, which means loans and work, and if S can get work study closely related to his research, it would be ideal.</p>
<p>berurah, continued congratulations, looking forward to your JHU/Duke trip reports, and v. sorry that your S won't be in CA next year but I imagine an acceptance to Stanford would just have been an unecessary distraction at this point...</p>
<p>Interestingly, my S also grew up dreaming of the rah-rah sports school, in his case Michigan. It's no wonder-- we were dressing him in Maize n Blue since he was born. He's a huge sports fan, too, so the idea of games in the big house was entrancing to him. And of course, it's a wonderful school academically, too.</p>
<p>Somewhere along the way, though, he read about the Columbia Core Curriculum, and when we visited, he became totally entranced with the whole intellectual 24/7 debate/argue/think atmosphere he perceived there. (not that my alma mater isn't intellectual, obviously.)</p>
<p>In the end, he opted for the more "cerebral" experience, even though Columbia's leading sports seem to be fencing and crew, not very rah rah. It was the opposite of his childhood dream school, and I thnk it was the right choice for him. I think it's helping to focus him more than Michigan would've, and will help him become his adult best self.</p>
<p>So in that light, I agree that JHU, with that scholarship, might really be a happy and a right place for your S.</p>
<p>Despite all the "reputed" info. and opinions, I'm not sure that either school is more "cerebral" than the other. Both schools attract and enroll extremely qualified candidates.</p>
<p>Plenty of frats and drinking at Hopkins, Mini, I assure you. It is not dead at JHU. But Duke is more of a rah rah school than Hopkins though you would never guess it at the lacrosse games. The atmosphere at Hopkins is definitely more cerebral, however, and smart slackers avoid the school like the plague because of its reputation.</p>
<p>Contrary to popular belief, you can actually be cerebral, "rah rah", athletically inclined, and a member of a fraternity. You don't have to be a nerdy geek to be cerebral!! As a matter of fact, you can even be a nerdy cerebral geek and still enjoy watching sports. Have you ever really looked at some of the Cameron Crazies??? :)</p>
<p>This may just be their way of expressing the extreme pride they have in their school. I think it's great. Some of those kids could care less about basketball. It allows them to be a part of something that most of them have never experienced before. That experience is a big part of college for many kids. It doesn't mean that they somehow morph into unintellectual dimwits. Come on, look at the credentials of those kids attending. (Even if 3% of the students are recruited dimwit athletes, that still leaves 97% of the student body that still has some cerebral potential!)</p>
<p>Sokkermom, I was refering to Columbia and Michigan, not Duke and JHU, when I used that word. I LOVE Michigan, as much as your S loves Duke. My point is that the dream school aspect is often connected to the rahrah/sports atmosphere ( 11 year old kids don't usually fall for a research program) and that eschewing it because of a particular academic experience, for my S, the Core, for Berurah's S, possibly that special scholarship program, can be okay, and not as traumatic as one might think. I was describing my sportsloving S making a decision that went against his earliest instincts, and that it worked out for him. Really, not every discussion that involves Duke is meant as a put down of it. Neither of my kids even looked into it, and my D toured but disliked JHU. I have no ax to grind here. I was just offering another viewpoint to Berurah.</p>
<p>Garland:
My comments were not intended to defend Duke, or really directed at any particular post or campus. Most schools have well rounded kids that can be involved with athletics, fraternities, music, dance, theater, etc, etc. These same kids can still be very intellectual, and just as cerebral as some of the kids who feel the constant need to define themselves as the "cerebral type". I just think that anyone considering schools should realize that the two "cultures" may not be mutually exclusive!</p>
<p>
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I just think that anyone considering schools should realize that the two "cultures" may not be mutually exclusive!
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</p>
<p>Of course, absolutely. What I'm trying to say (not successfully) is that a kid who was looking for the classic sports/rahrah atmosphere (my kid and perhaps Berurah's) can end up deciding against it for other reasons (like a particular program or a scholarship which has particular opportunities and money) and still be happy. I meant "cerebral" not in that the other choices aren't, because of course they are, but in that the choice would be based on a particular academic reason which caused the loss of the other, non-academic aspect which the kid might have thought he needed.</p>
<p>We all agree, I think, that these two aspects are non-exclusive, but there are stil reasons a student might choose a school where one aspect is largely absent, for other, particular, reasons.</p>
<p>I'm not sure I'm being any clearer, but please understand that I'm going against my own instincts here (mich alum!) but I'm trying to help B's S by retelling my own S's non-expected trajectory.</p>
<p>I'd take Duke for the simple reason that I believe more of its students are enthusiastic about being there and love their school. To be frank, most of the kids I've known who ended up at JHU saw it as a fallback, not as where they really wanted to be.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What I'm trying to say (not successfully) is that a kid who was looking for the classic sports/rahrah atmosphere (my kid and perhaps Berurah's) can end up deciding against it for other reasons (like a particular program or a scholarship which has particular opportunities and money) and still be happy.
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<p>garland,</p>
<p>I think this is well said! Yes, my son is a "normal" kid who would appreciate the rah-rah aspect of a school, but he is first and foremost a dedicated and ambitious scholar, and I know that in the end, he will opt for the best program which offers the most opportunity. To him, that is the MOST important aspect of a college. </p>
<p>That said, I think he COULD be very happy at either Duke or JHU. Both are fine schools with excellent reputations. </p>
<p>I can see what you are saying, but we have some serious money and honor talkin' here with the Hodson Trust Scholarship. It would be very hard to turn one's back on this incredible opportunity! ~b.</p>
<p>I've been reading through this thread very carefully. I was recently accepted to Hopkins for math/physics with a Hodson scholarship and, like the poster, I have a very hard decision to make. For me it is between Hopkins and Brown, my original first choice. I'm not a science nerd by ay means and really don't like to be competitive academically, so many of the things I hear about Hopkins scare me. However, the money, prestige and research opportunities do sound amazing. This decision is tearing me up. Before, I could have gone to Brown with no reservations, but now that the Hodson Scholarship has come along, I'm going to feel like I've really missed something wherever I go.</p>
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I'm going to feel like I've really missed something wherever I go.
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<p>thekeanesixteen~You have taken the words right out of my son's mouth!!! I offer my warmest congrats on your earning the Hodson Scholarship!!!! But, I can so totally relate to your tough decision. Either way, you win, but conversely, either way, something precious is lost <em>sigh</em>. Best of luck, honey! And please keep us posted on your decision! love, ~berurah</p>
<p>It's starting to feel that Hopkins would be more practical in terms of having the prestige on my resume, getting the extra research opportunities, to a lesser extent the money, but based on my early impressions I think Brown's climate is much more suited to me. I'm really good at math and physics but it isn't my only passion and I may end up studying economics or something by senior year. If I were a math/science geek (and I don't mean that in a bad way) who was aspiring to be a researcher, I'd take the Hopkins offer in a snap. But I'm more of a relaxed and curious intellectual person. I'm not lazy but don't fancy the idea of being worked to death (not that I think Hopkins is ridiculously rigorous, but it certainly has the reputation for a reason) and I know that as a Hodson scholar I'd really have to work hard to prove I deserve it. I'll work hard wherever I go but I think I'd enjoy the Brown experience more. But does that outweigh the incredible opportunities I mentioned earlier that come with the Hodson deal? I hope that the reception and an overnight at each school will give me that answer. I wish I could do them all tomorrow; I'm so sick of thinking about this.</p>
<p>berurah, in one of the most EXCITING lacrosse games I've ever experienced and without doubt THE most exciting fourth-quarter I can remember (the lead tied and changed five times in the last 8 minutes of regular play!), in a come-back win, JHU defeated Duke by a score of 11-10 in the last minute of double overtime! The last minute of regular play was thrilling: score was tied, Duke had possession, was walking the ball around trying to kill the clock and take the final shot, JHU stole the ball and ran it down to their goal, but the game went into overtime, then double overtime, until the winning goal was scored by a freshman!. It was almost more than my poor middle-aged self could take! (I was listening on the Internet and the game just ended.)</p>
<p>Does this make any difference in your S's decision? :)</p>
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JHU defeated Duke by a score of 11-10 in the last minute of double overtime!
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It's official! The scale has tipped in favor of berurah's son becoming a Johns Hopkins Blue Jay! I predict berurah's son will be getting JHU lacrosse equipment as a high school graduation present.</p>
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and I know that as a Hodson scholar I'd really have to work hard to prove I deserve it.
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<p>This is exactly how my son feels. He has said so many times. I have offered him an "out". I told him that if he felt that this would put too much pressure on him, then he certainly doesn't have to do this. But, in HIS case, he feels like this would be a wonderful motivator for him to take full advantage of all that is offered him at JHU. He is very competitive and strongly embraces challenge, and yet, he is also a very normal kid who likes having the time to do all of the things a normal kid does. For HIM, I think this program may be a very good thing, but I can see where it might not be for everyone or for someone who would rather not live under that pressure. How is the financial aid situation at Brown? Will the JHU money be significant enough to sway your decision? I hope that you are able to take a good, long, analytical look at this and make the best decision not only for your college career and your resume, but for your mental and emotional health as well. Both of the schools you are considering are fine institutions, and you CANNOT go wrong with either one. Either way, you will do beautifully, I am sure. Unfortunately, my son will be unable to attend the Hodson Scholar recipient reception due to financial constraints, so if you would, I would LOVE for you to post or to pm me and let me know how that went! I will very much be looking forward to your perception of JHU and of the Hodson Scholars Program in particular! Best of luck with your decision!</p>
<p>mootmom~Once again, I think this stupendous lacrosse game deserves a "CRIKEY!!!!". Oh, how exciting!!!! I think my son could really get into lacrosse....And yes....see below.....</p>
<p>bigmain~O.K., that's it! Hopkins it is! Whatever made me think that decision making was so difficult? I wish I had become acquainted with bigmain YEARS ago!! (well....actually we're about at 85% Hopkins now....<em>lol</em>)</p>
<p>To answer your question, I'm not going to be getting financial aid anywhere. I'm lucky enough to be in a very secure financial situation, so any merit money is going to go to me once I graduate (to be spent on necessities e.g. car, apartment, grad school). If I go to Brown it'll be full tuition but the money really isn't the deciding factor here, it's the privileges and prestige of the scholarship. I'll be sure to let you now what I think of Hopkins and what school I eventually decide to attend</p>