Two Roads Diverged...on sleepless nights, JHU, and Duke~all opinions welcome!

Parents Forum
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<p>Hey y'all,</p>

<p>I don't even know where to start. Neither my son nor have have slept much since the JHU package was opened. This astounding, beautiful, wonderful, and GENEROUS scholarship (the Hodson Trust Scholarship) has thrown a serious monkey wrench into the decision making process. I won't reiterate the Duke dream stuff here...you all know about that.</p>

<p>This is the deal. My son is feeling so overwhelming honored by this very, very special scholarship. And it's not just the money, not at all. It's the idea that JHU was so impressed with him and has the faith in him to make this investment in his future. I just got off the phone with one of the gentlemen in charge of this scholarship. He was absolutely delightful! I asked some questions about the scholarship, and just as I suspected, it IS that great an honor and has the potential to have a massive and enduring impact on my son's future. The man I talked to said that he gets calls from parents asking if their children can just have the NAME of the scholarship attached to them without ANY MONEY. That's how meaningful this scholarship is.</p>

<p>And for my son...well, he finally feels validated, truly validated. He has distinguished himself in every single way, only to have it barely acknowledged by his own high school which would rather paste a picture on the front page of the local newspaper showing someone signing to play baseball with the local community college. I ask that you PLEASE don't dis me for mentioning community college...my own son has taken classes at one and benefitted greatly. I mention this as a reference to our town's concentration on SPORTS to the exclusion of academics, that is all--not a belittling of community colleges, which can provide fabulous experiences.</p>

<p>At any rate, I feel physically ill at the prospect of his letting go of EITHER of these options. Seriously. Duke has been his dream for nearly 10 years. Now, it comes true....but this. </p>

<p>I think you all would be totally shocked at my son's reaction. He is so incredibly pragmatic. He's been SERIOUSLY discussing the potential impact of this scholarship at JHU, leaving all heart issues of Duke aside at the moment. I admire him so much! :) He's always been able to see the big picture, and now is no exception. But, do you realize how very difficult this is for him?? I know you do....</p>

<p>Interestingly, he is of the mind that there is NO wrong decision. He says that either decision is GOOD; it's just that one might be better than the other, and he intends to determine which one is best.</p>

<p>The gentleman at JHU is, as I write this, exploring options for obtaining the funds to fly him out there for the Hodson Scholarship recipient reception and the larger open house. I am so excited! He will be so thrilled if this comes through.</p>

<p>Anywho, I was just looking for advice and opinions, particularly from anyone who might be able to tell me the future implications of his being "one of the pack" at Duke versus a "chosen leader" at JHU. Whaddya think??</p>

<p>Thanks, as usual, for your opinions! ~a very confused berurah</p>

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<p>What else does the scholarship entail besides money? Research opportunities? Mentoring? Summer programs? Teas? (not kidding about that one: my d. has one of those special scholarship thingees at Smith, and she gets to go to tea and meet some of the most AMAZING people!) </p>

<p>If it's just money, then it's just a financial decision. (But, as I've noted in other posts, getting money can free up lots of money - and time - for other things which can be equally important in your son's education.)</p>

<p>(I really don't know much about either school - I was perturbed by the statistic posted recently that a survey found that 50% of JHU freshman expect to have an "unsatisfactory" quality of life at the school. I have also heard - but certainly can't confirm - that in the sciences, they tend to be rather cutthroat, and that lots of would-be pre-meds, who would have done fine as pre-meds at other schools, don't make it. But I've also heard of students who LOVED the research opportunities.)</p>

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<p>Berurah, I don't know if someone will kill me for saying this here: both my son and I did not like Baltimore and the surrounding area of JHU. We felt it was crime ridden and the crime statistics at JHU campus (Homewood?) wasn't all that great. My son has been to JHU twice for CTY summer camp.</p>

<p>If it were for my son, I would look at quality of life issues at these two schools. If quality of life was the criteria, Duke would win hands down.</p>

<p>JHU is a great school as I said before and ideally suited if your son's interest is in Neuroscience, Biomed, biological sciences etc.</p>

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<p>mini~I was able to infer from the man I talked to this morning that having that scholarship attached to my son would push him off the fence (or over it, I guess) for competitive research opportunities and such. Also, he said it was a great resume builder for grad school because of the esteem attached to it. So, not JUST teas, but we'll take those too.</p>

<p>achat~well, I for one APPRECIATE your input. This is exactly the sort of stuff we need to know. I've been thinking along those lines myself, but we've never seen either school.....</p>

<p>~b.</p>

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<p>Berurah, what a wonderful dilemma to have.
I know that you are also weighing in on the fin. aid from Duke. However, I strongly feel that the Honor and prestige from being selected for such a scholarship at JHU will stay with him a long time. It is not just the $$ amount of the scholarship,....he will probably be the member of an elite group within JHU, and also has already attracted their attention, and may get more special opportunities to work with certain professors.</p>

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<p>berurah:</p>

<p>My son goes to a prep school on full scholarship through fin aid. The other top 5 school gave him admission but also gave him less money. At one school they asked us to pay even $20,000. So we decided to choose the prep school based on full package. Believe me that money does matter if you do not make that much. I would recommend that with your kid personality he would be better off in JHU. I know one kid who got accepted with this scholarship and choose UPenn. But kid wanted to do medical instead of choosing a career in biochemistry.</p>

<p>I would say if money is a concern then chooses JHU. Otherwise let your kid make a choice and provide your input. The university is honoring him and has shown a trust. Based on my limited experience go with university which will cherish him. Good luck either way :)</p>

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<p>This scholarship will be on his resume for job applications, applications to Med. school etc. Definitely a way to stand out from the pack.</p>

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<p>Berurah, I sent you a PM. </p>

<p>Regarding safety, a few months ago a JHU security officer joined CC and wrote in great detail answering campus safety. It was in the Parents Forum, and I think the thread title is "Safety at Schools."</p>

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<p>Berurah, ok, since you weren't angry with me for saying that....there's also other stuff I have heard about JHU. I've heard that especially for biosciences and other competitive majors, the atmosphere is cutthroat at JHU. This is word-of-mouth from my son's classmates. I couldn't corroborate this.</p>

<p>There was also a girl from my son's school, valedictorian who went to JHU. She disliked it enough to transfer out of it to UPenn this year.</p>

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<p>I don't want to offend anyone by this,but I have to agree with Achat on the campus/surrounding area at JHU. I took a wrong turn near campus and ended up somewhere that I did NOT want to be.That being said...
the scholarship sounds like an amazing opportunity and I think it goes without saying that he just needs to visit and soak it all in.JHU may open doors that are only available to him with that scholarship and I just know that sometimes just being on the campus gives you the gut confirmation that a place is the right fit for you...or not. Congrats!</p>

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<p>Beruurah-
again congrats on your son's acceptances. I don't know if I can even guess at your son's future implications depending on which university he attends but I can tell you about my son's experience at Duke.</p>

<p>DS#2 (a junior in hs this year) was accepted and participated in Duke's cancer research internship last summer (summer 2004). This is usually open to seniors and undergrads but based on son's qualifications they took him early. It was a paid internship for 2+ months and he spent at least 60-80 hours per week on campus working and discovering all the nooks and crannies. His research and lab work was very intensive and he was expected to be up to speed with the other students working MD/Phd canidates within a week or so. He did alot of outside reading. I do not have a clue what it was about, I just know it had to do with cancer.</p>

<p>I am sure your son's experience will include classes and social life and a member of the audience at basketball games. But I have garnered a sense that your son will be interested in research and its opportunities. Duke Med Center is huge and it is of course a teaching hospital but it has numerous research facilities in addition to the hospital. </p>

<p>I can only relate my son's take on the school and research. He was definitely made to feel the member of the team, albiet not an important member. He spent hours and hours and HOURS trying to catch up with the lab techniques, prior research and even the politics of the lab and oncology department. He did see quite a few undergrads but they were upperclassman and very gifted upperclassman. He learned a tremendous amount and was very well-paid.</p>

<p>But as far as being a star a Duke, regarding med research, I think most of the science oriented, research driven students are all stars. The description you have given of your son's JHS scholarship does not sound like what will happen at Duke. But that is again based on my son's experiences. </p>

<p>I have to cut this short and will post more later, have kiddos that need to be picked up. But on another note, we do live very close to Duke so I can answer other questions of that nature for you.</p>

<p>Yak at you later.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>achat,</p>

<p>I have heard about the cutthroat nature of the atmosphere from others as well. My son is competitive by nature, but it does make me a bit nervous. Is that what your son's school's valedictorian disliked the most about JHU? Or were there other things too? ~b.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
This is exactly the sort of stuff we need to know. I've been thinking along those lines myself, but we've never seen either school.....

[/quote]
Berurah, as you know, we are now faced with a similar type of choice. Princeton, Stanford, Cal with Regents. There is no bad outcome. But there is probably one that's the better one. We started on the top-down checklist approach, comparing focus on undergraduate vs. graduate, backyard vs. nearby vs. across the country, conservative or liberal political and social climate, housing options, fraternities/sororities vs. eating clubs, biology/psychology departments, dance departments, school papers, even club volleyball....We still have research to do on these things and I hope those of you who know the schools as parents will help me out when I post my questions. However, in my gut I now believe this has to be a gut decision on her part. </p>

<p>Hence the quote. I would do whatever I could to get him to these two schools for the feel. He sounds, from the post he put on your thread, with a kid with a high degree of emotional warmth and capability to relate. The environment, the social dynamics, and the actual set of peers might be important to him. Also, maybe he has that unique ability to sense what is right for him. So as others have suggested, can you get them to pay his way (and maybe yours or H's) to go see/feel for himself?</p>

<p>Anyone on cc own an airline?</p>

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<p>I really know nothing about JHU but congrats on this wonderful opportunity for your son! I guess if it helps.. D's dream school (as you all know) was also Duke.. she was rejected and guess what..she is over it already.. all we hear about now is RICE.. so dreams change. Good luck.. I am sure that your S will make the right decision.. he sounds like an amazing kid!</p>

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<p>berurah...if you are comfortable with the neighborhood issues, the Offer is great. It will open doors for him and give him first shot at many of the reasearch opportunities.</p>

<p>Either way both JHU and Duke are great schools. You can't go wrong.</p>

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<p>Berurah, whew, ok, so that one went well....</p>

<p>The girl my son knows, the valedictorian, from class of 2003 did not like JHU for the following reasons:
1) Felt campus life wasn't "vibrant". Felt sort of cheated out of a typical college life.
2) Felt the cutthroat nature of the school. Remember, she is one the best students in my son's competitive HS. So if she felt it...</p>

<p>There is another kid my son knows who also talks of the very cutthroat nature at Biomed engineering.</p>

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<p>Berurah.... all due respect.... you're asking a bunch of strangers for advice here-- not data, or information, but advice.</p>

<p>Your son was interested in Yale... hey, that's around the corner from a bad neighborhood too. If he ends up in Med school at Yale, Penn, Einstein, Mt. Sinai, Columbia, and about 30 other top med schools I could mention he'll also be near a bad neighborhood.</p>

<p>You are about to be flooded with everyone's half baked anecdotes about kids who were thrilled/miserable with either of your sons absolutely, wonderful, fantastic choices. Does knowing that someone's niece became anorexic freshman year at Duke really help you, or that someone else won a Fulbright from JHU?</p>

<p>You have the most wonderful choice to make now and I have every confidence that your son will either weigh all the pros and cons, or toss a coin, and come up with the best possible outcome.</p>

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<p>blossom~Yes, I WAS asking for opinions...that's what I said in the title of the thread. I realize that opinions are subjective, but I am a person who tends to be interested in what others think. I can look at hard data too, and of course I WILL, but I am getting just what I requested!</p>

<p>In an effort to AVOID coin tossing, I have chosen to seek information, both fact and opinion. The only thing that I CAN assure you is that this choice will NOT be made on the basis of one person's anecdote nor on the basis of a coin toss...</p>

<p>I was especially seeking input from anyone for whom being a big scholarship recipient afforded some extra perks. </p>

<p>~b.</p>

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<p>berurah - My advice is the following. As others have said, find out what the Hodson Trust program offers (in addition to the scholarship, and OBVIOUSLY, the GREAT honor). Also - did you get your financial aid info from Duke yet? Comparing the financial aspects of both is obviously important. And, as others have said, the most important thing for your son to do is to visit both Duke and JHU, if at all possible. He can probably to get a ticket which will route him to both locations as part of one trip - there was recently a whole long thread on how to do this and a lot of people on this board had very specific advice on doing it. My son's college decision was very difficult, and came down to the last possible day, but it would have been almost impossible if he had not visited the schools in question for an overnight stay. Even if JHU is not able to subsidize this, if he could find any way to pay for the trip, it would be money well spent. Finally, isn't it nicer to have this kind of a worry than the types of worries you had a few weeks ago?!? :)</p>

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<p>Berurah, I don't know anyone who would turn down an award this prestigious from JHU to attend Duke... but I come from a part of the country where kids go to Duke who can't get into Hopkins, so that's my bias.</p>