<p>there is no need for Greek life at colleges…it’s silly IMO…It creates an atmosphere for binge drinking where only bad things can happen. Too bad some kids can’t go away and grow up on their own instead of feeling the need to instantly belong to some group.</p>
<p>It’s not high school anymore…grow up</p>
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<p>So do you believe that 18 year olds are NOT adults? That they are NOT responsible for their own behavior?</p>
<p>There are very mixed messages on college campuses today. It is easy to see why students get confused. It’s all well and good to “turn a blind eye” to the drinking and partying that goes on in frats/sororities or otherwise until someone gets caught.</p>
<p>So, which is it? “kids will be kids” in college or is it, “my kid is expected to make their own decisions because they are an adult.” In option A, kids are going to drink because it is the pervasive, sanctioned culture. No worries until they get caught. In option B, they actually are NOT a legal drinking adult - they must be 21 to drink at fraternities/sororities or anywhere on campus and this little (?) fact is severely overlooked until someone gets caught or something bad happens. </p>
<p>Drug and Alcohol classes are just window dressing. Students are not taking them seriously. They are looking for the next party…The students do not drink don’t need these classes. The ones who do drink are not paying any attention. Why should they? They are mulling over all of their options for parties serving alcohol. In regard to the situation at UVA, as long as fraternity/sororities are just getting a “slap on the hand” don’t expect anything to change anytime soon.</p>
<p>Mini, random shooting?</p>
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<p>Do you honestly think that only students in Greek organizations drink?</p>
<p>“most importantly, viewing parties as very important are all associated with binge drinking”</p>
<p>The above is what I see in my small world.</p>
<p>The fraternity/sorority comment was made in direct reference to the UVA incident.</p>
<p>This is not a fraternity/sorority vs. everyone else situation. It is a pervasive college culture drinking problem. Universities run into trouble, however when they sanction activities at fraternities/sororities that involve serving alcohol to those under 21. If a student in a dorm hosts a party and provides alcohol to someone under 21 and gets caught, there are direct consequences to that particular individual.</p>
<p>Again, I would agree with Cormom’s comment above that it is not about Greek vs. non-Greek drinking. It is about the university sanctioning an organization that permits drinking to occur. </p>
<p>Footballmom, of course I’m not saying that non-Greek kids (and adults) don’t drink too much at times. This is about university policy.</p>
<p>Proudpatriot, I do agree that 18-y/o’s are responsible for their behavior. However, if a parent is paying to send a child to college, then there are certain expectations. I assume that the college is going to provide a decent education. I assume that the dorms will be sufficient at best. And so on. I also assume there is going to be drinking and drugs readily available. I hope my child will handle it responsibly, but I can’t guarantee that. But when colleges look the other way when there is binge drinking at campus sponsored organizations, then this is wrong, IMO. This has nothing to do with adulthood, it has to do with policy.</p>
<p>I don’t think “colleges” can stop kids from drinking but they can prevent drinking at college sanctioned events by hiring door attendants, by marketing kids’ hands or attaching wrist bracelets. Bars and public establishments do this every day. Colleges have kids that are 18 (or younger sometimes) all the way up and past 21. They can only control events and perhaps to a lesser extent what happens in their housing. Every week, kids living in off campus apartments have parties and that is also outside the purview of the college administration and the only was to get kids under college rules is to have them all live in college housing. Very few colleges do this.</p>
<p>The “relationship” between Greek organizations is somewhat different as the national organizations have shared responsibility and generally these houses are off or at the fringe of campus, have multiple points of entry and have events that are sanctioned by the Greek organization and not necessarily the college. Until Greek organizations put their money where their mouths are, drinking won’t be curtailed. There is alot of lip service from the National Greek organizations. The only option a college has for total control is to ban Greek organizations from the student body…and some colleges are slowly doing just that. Having a student living in a Greek house is very much like having a kid living in an off campus apartment.</p>
<p>My issue is really with the hazing. I do not believe a University should affiliate itself with or sponsor any organization that dangles membership in front of new students with “strings” attached. When membership privileges extend only to those who survive unsafe and dangerous practices, or who can tolerate being debased or humiliated, I think the Universities have a duty to step in. I don’t see it as a maturity issue. New students should not arrive on campus to this culture.</p>
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<p>I think this is a really key difference. When I was in college, beer was free at frat parties, and it was cheap beer that tasted disgusting, particularly after it grew warm. You had to really try hard to get drunk on that stuff.</p>
<p>College drinking is stable, if not actually declining a bit. This is result of there being higher percentages of minority students, older students in the mix, women (who drink a little bit less), and also a slight national decline in high school drinking. </p>
<p>There are multiple steps that colleges can (and some have) taken that can reduce drinking on campus. (I’ve mentioned lots of them earlier.) </p>
<p>And, yes, you can abolish fraternities on campus, and make students who join them subject to expulsion. My alma mater, which included the founding chapters of several old national fraternities, did. And alumni giving and support for the college soared afterwords. But the institution would have to want to - and I doubt that many do. </p>
<p>The question though is how to combat the increasing frequency and intensity of binge drinking. Yes, binge drinking (and drug use) are highly associated with fraternity and sorority membership (sorry, guys). But there is an open question as to whether these same people would be drinking and drugging if there weren’t fraternities/sororities on campus. (I tend to think they would, but there would be less, as these students would be in residential environments where perhaps it would be less of a norm. The might still binge and drug, but they might do it less often and with less intensity.)</p>
<p>As to who is responsible for their behavior? Well, as Maya Angelou once said, “Most people never grow up; they just find parking spaces.”</p>
<p>maggiedog: You start off talking about how 18 year olds are responsible for their own behavior and then end with a comment about how college policies are causing these drinking deaths. No-the students are causing these problems.</p>
<p>I realize that the UVA incident that sparked this thread is fraternity related, but there are many more that are not fraternity related. They are all equally tragic and it is not the university’s responsibility to make sure that students act responsibly. It is their own personal responsibility to ensure their safety. The university is not a babysitter for our adult children.</p>
<p>Bottom line: talk to your kids about alcohol in realistic ways (hard liquor vs beer, drink water, eat, have a buddy system), expect them to experiment, and don’t rely on Universities to fill any gaps. My kids don’t owe me certain behavior because I’m paying; they owe themselves and their communities responsible behavior because they are adults and consequences are real. Whether it’s a fraternity or a friend or a resturant providing alcohol, an adult is responsible for his/her own actions.</p>
<p>ProudPatriot - we are on the same page.</p>
<p>Right, AND, if I go into a bar and your bar overserves me and I crash and kill someone? The bar is also liable, financially.</p>
<p>If you are in my house and you are underage and you drink to overdose? I am liable for that as the “host” in my town and in my state. I am actually criminally liable in my state and town.</p>
<p>I predict that soon enough, colleges which sanction and assist in the running of greek systems, ie, have departments of greek life paid for by tuition funding, and national greek organizations, both of whom frequently own the property, will be held liable. the law is not moving in the other direction.</p>
<p>Now, am I counting on this to keep my own kids safe? NO WAY! I"m educating them. But, if I can be liable for what is going on here, they will be, eventually, too.</p>
<p>Yes to poetgrl on the consequences to all those entities, if possible. But my priority is to try to inform my children about their central role in their own choices.</p>
<p>Those parents who are paying those fraternity and sorority dues need to be held responsible too. Maybe the utility companies who provide heat and running water to the fraternities need to be held accountable because their services enable the fraternities to hold parties. Oh my gosh, the cup companies!!! How could I forget them? What is a party without cups? America, where everyone can act stupidly and the rest of society is blamed :/</p>
<p>Hoosiermom, I really don’t care if your children drink themselves to death or not. Matters to me not at all. And I know my oldest wont, since she barely drinks and she’s legal.</p>
<p>But if you want to tell me that I’m not liable if some 20 year old gets drunk to overdose in my house? You would actually be ill advised. The law is the law.</p>
<p>Eventually, the law will catch up to those colleges who own the property, it just will.</p>
<p>But, as for your kid, or anybody else’s kid drinking so much it kills them? What difference should it make to any of us? Tough luck. Right?</p>
<p>poetgrl, I have no idea why you direct those remarks to me. I have never served alcohol to any underage kids- not even my own. My adult children do drink responsibly. So what was your point? My position is people can moan and groan about who is liable for binging at the universities but in fact the universities are not encouraging the behavior or shoving it down students’ throats. The choice and the responsibility is the individual’s for whatever reason. Suing whoever people want to blame will not solve the problem.</p>
<p>enforcement changes behavior.</p>
<p>People used to drink and drive thoughtlessly, even after the laws first changed. Now, with stricter penalties, not so much.</p>
<p>If universities enforced their drinking rules, behavior would change. </p>
<p>Unless the drinking laws change, half these kids are underage. They shut down bars for letting underage drinking go on. Shut down the fraternity houses for the same.</p>