<p>UVa does not own the land or the houses of fraternities and sororities. Like a lot of schools, several chapters of individual houses have been closed over the years by their national orgs for various problems, including drinking. Individuals have been prosecuted for drinking infractions by university and city police. For those wringing their hands as if an easy answer is being ignored, please get back to reality. And maybe show some of the restaint we ask of our kids and refrain from lashing out at individuals who disagree with you.</p>
<p>UVA can ban membership in on-campus or off-campus fraternities anytime they please. I can name at least half a dozen colleges that have done that, including some where they national chapter was formed, with no legal liability. (But I do understand that they don’t want to.)</p>
<p>They could also require that fraternities be alcohol-free, or more accurately, that belonging to a non-alcohol free fraternity (including those off campus) can result in expulsion. (But I do understand that they don’t want to.)</p>
<p><a href=“When a Hazing Goes Very Wrong - The New York Times”>When a Hazing Goes Very Wrong - The New York Times;
<p><a href=“To End Fraternity Hazing, End Boozing First”>http://chronicle.com/article/To-End-Fraternity-Hazing-End/131738/</a></p>
<p>Proudpatriot -I did NOT say college policies are causing student deaths. I am saying that inaction and tacit approval of drinking, particularly at frats is a problem.</p>
<p>We are all arguing about the degrees of danger inherent in this behavior. I think what needs to be addressed is WHY are we even considering college sanctioned underage drinking at fraternities to be acceptable? Why is this debatable? Yes, most of us drank in college, and probably at a younger age. And yes, most of our kids probably drink in college. But do we want colleges to sanction these activities?</p>
<p>They could also randomly blood test students for alcohol and drugs, raid dorm rooms, enact a curfew, or otherwise turn the university into a police state. But I can understand why they would not want to.</p>
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<p>Are any of them public colleges or universities which banned membership in off-campus fraternities or other organizations that have no official standing on campus? (Other discussions on this topic include claims that private colleges and universities have more leeway with respect to banning membership in off-campus organizations.)</p>
<p>Williams College is hardly a police start. Nor Bates, nor Colby, nor Amherst, nor…</p>
<p>UVA has an Office of Fraternities and Sororities within the Office of Dean, and through that office, actively promotes fraternity and sorority membership. The Office also says that the Fs and Ss must comply with all university policies regarding alcohol - they could ban membership the moment they went out of compliance. (but they won’t, so it’s a non-issue.)</p>
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<p>While 18 year olds are adults for most purposes, they are not treated as adults with respect to drinking alcohol until they are 21.</p>
<p>And kids don’t drink at those schools? That will be great news for many posters here as they look for a school who can guarantee their child won’t misbehave.</p>
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<p>I assume this was directed at me? I suppose since you are new here and have 12 posts, you are completely unaware that both mini and I are graduate level credentialed addictions specialists who have worked with both dying and detoxing college age kids as well as working on public policy.</p>
<p>Neither of us are wringing our hands, nor are we unaware there are no easy solutions in the current environment. We’re just trying to figure out a way to save a few kids’ lives.</p>
<p>But, yeah, thanks.</p>
<p>Of course they drink. Even lots! The question is not whether they drink, but the prevalence and intensity of binge drinking, and in this area, the evidence is overwhelming - fraternities and sorority membership is highly correlated with binge drinking, drug use, and sexual assault. Yes, I know - they also heal the poor, clothe the sick, and feed the naked.</p>
<p>And again, I don’t know that these same students, if not in fraternities or sororities, wouldn’t binge drink, engage in drug use, or be engaged (as criminals or victims) in sexual assaults. (In the the first and third departments, recent reports at Williams and Amherst are “sobering”). As I noted, I expect they would, but at lower rates, if in environments where these behaviors were less of a norm.</p>
<p>No, poetgrl, I did not recognize your credentials when you flippantly suggested another poster’s child could drink himself to death. And I was not aware that one need show a resume to debate an issue on a college parents forum.</p>
<p><a href=“http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=gjcp&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dbinge%2520drinking%2520on%2520college%2520campuses%2520and%2520the%2520greek%2520system%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CDsQFjAC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fepublications.marquette.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1009%2526context%253Dgjcp%26ei%3DHGwgUYvnLIWzywGhiYDQAg%26usg%3DAFQjCNFe_cLtUdQMbOyGLuS9oVs4_J2bGw#search=“binge%20drinking%20college%20campuses%20greek%20system”[/url]”>http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=gjcp&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dbinge%2520drinking%2520on%2520college%2520campuses%2520and%2520the%2520greek%2520system%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CDsQFjAC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fepublications.marquette.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1009%2526context%253Dgjcp%26ei%3DHGwgUYvnLIWzywGhiYDQAg%26usg%3DAFQjCNFe_cLtUdQMbOyGLuS9oVs4_J2bGw#search=“binge%20drinking%20college%20campuses%20greek%20system”</a></p>
<p>From the article</p>
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<p>ETA: one ought not get sarcastic if one does not want to be responded to in kind. No?</p>
<p>Another good source on this issue, if you have access: Boyle, J. R. & Boekeloo, B. O. (2006). Perceived parental approval of
drinking and its impact on problem drinking behaviors among first‐
year college students. Journal of American College Health, 54, 238‐244</p>
<p>Regarding why universities, particularly larger or public ones, may not come down too hard on fraternities:</p>
<p>[Greek</a> Life Statistics | The Fraternity Advisor](<a href=“http://thefraternityadvisor.com/greek-life-statistics/]Greek”>http://thefraternityadvisor.com/greek-life-statistics/)</p>
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<p>If the fraternity representation is as strong in state governments as in the national government, that may deter state universities from coming down too hard on fraternities.</p>
<p>However, the non-fraternity presidents of the US include the current one, although ΑΝΩ made him an honorary member.</p>
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<p>This is a mean and thoughtless statement.</p>
<p>edited to add: I find it difficult to believe that you work with addicted people and you would make such a callous statement.</p>
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<p>Not being old enough to drink does not mean they are not adults. They are adults and if they engage in risky, illegal behavior responsibility for that behavior lies in them not some third party.</p>
<p>Let’s put this in perspective shall we:</p>
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<p>Isn’t that what is basically being said here? There’s no point in looking at how to change the risk factors for other people’s children dying of an alcohol overdose? Nothing can be done? It’s the same statement as far as I can see. </p>
<p>As for finding it hard to believe I work with addicted people based on that statement? You’ll find that those of us in the trenches are sick of the sarcastic tone and the “nothing can be done” attitude, the lack of resources and the rest of it.</p>
<p>Anyone who has done as much work in this field as I have would not be even slightly surprised by this statement. That attitude causes deaths and that attitude is much more dangerous to your kids than mine is. I assure you.</p>
<p>I’d really like to see the drinking age lowered so that the dialogue is removed from who must be held responsible. I think it detracts from the issue, wastes resources, and removes accountability from the adults who are over drinking. I’d really like to see the law challenged on Equal Protection grounds. I don’t think that has happened yet.</p>
<p>I’d never want to abandon one of the most successful public health interventions of the 20th Century, one that has saved - and continues to save - thousands of lives - for the purpose of better dialogue. Especially when there are so many things that can be done, and have been done, on college campuses, that work.</p>
<p>But others can feel differently. Hey, it’s a big country!</p>
<p>Mini,
We’ve had this conversation before. Whether the raised drinking age or tighter driving laws, improved safety equipment and lower speed limits contributed to fewer deaths is an unresolved issue. But it is good.</p>
<p>No, it is very much resolved. There were scores of studies of side-by-side counties and states, where there were no changes in driving laws, safety equipment, and speed limits, but where the drinking ages changed in different years. Those other facotrs have indeed contributed to fewer deaths, but the drinking age change was discrete, happened in specific years where none of those other changes had taken effect. </p>
<p>We also have studies of the impact of drinking age changes on drinking initiation, and the impact of the age of drinking initiation and health impacts later in life.</p>