Two Wrongs Do Not Make A Right

College Confidential Community
21

<p>"Suffice to say, history lingers in ways you can't even fathom as a privileged kid"</p>

<p>How do you know everyone on CC is "privileged"? Talk about making assumptions. I am not poor or anything, but I live on a single-parent income with a younger brother and sister, along with a s***load of animals (my mother is an animal freak). </p>

<p>As for "experience," I actually associated with URMs a lot when I was younger. My middle school was over 70% black. Many of them, especially this one girl in particular, were good students who could get into good colleges without AA. You never hear about these balcks though, just the "poor" and "disadvantaged" ones that AA supporters point to in an attempt to justify AA. I said "one girl in particular" because this one black girl was really smart. She got accepted into one of NYC's top magnet schools and it was all because of her hard work, not AA. As a white student, I was actually a minority in the school and it never stopped me from achieving academically. I now attend a Catholic school that is over 90% white and I think that I am just as good a student there as I was in middle school.</p>

22

<p>A poor kid who has outdone himself and gone beyond his community standards exemplifies these values and shows promise. He is less likely to take for granted what the college has to offer than the privileged kid.</p>

<p>Okay. I think I see the problem now. Here's my argument: As much as it might suck for the black people in the south, we have black people in the north as well. As far as I've seen, they've nothing less or more than any other race.</p>

<p>Again: if they've got bad experiences, let them write about it. Auto assumption is just stupid.</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
As far as I've seen, they've nothing less or more than any other race.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>with all due respect, then, you haven't seen very far. I've had the opportunity to study this in-depth with a professor and teacher who has done community research as part of an ongoing academic project on desegregation...basically...we privileged kids have no idea.</p>

24

<p>Mallomar, first of all you just sort of proved one of 'our' points: you said, "a poor kid". A poor kid has all of those traits, not any race. IF colleges really though that the kids who were the best were those who succeeded under poor circumstances, they would take poor kids, not black/hispanics.</p>

<p>I think society has to realize that colleges ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR THE GREATER GOOD. They are looking out for number 1. Have you read the story in the New York Times Education Suppliment a couple of weeks back which basically showed how the kids from Andover were doing so well in the Ivy League Schools????? Your argument that blacks(you said poor people) would take better advantage of that is quite pathetic. Please excuse my generalizations College Confidential, I do not believe I am a racist person. Many black applicants won't have as many APs as rich white prep students, will not be used to working 6 hours every night, attending math competitions, ect ect. </p>

<p>Colleges use Affirmative Action NOT to, as Mallomar you say, rectify past injustices, nor do they use it to help out those people who they feel are disadvantaged: They are doing it for themselves. And it needs to be stopped.</p>

<p>Mallomar said

[quote]
He is less likely to take for granted what the college has to offer than the privileged kid.

[/quote]

YOu need to be a little less naieve. Colleges accept a kid because he is less likely to take for granted what the college has to offer????</p>

25

<p>Taggart - you so live up to your screenname. :)</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
with all due respect, then, you haven't seen very far.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you kidding? My parents are citizens of China who immigrated to Canada/US in 1997, where my dad taught himself C++ to get a job in Philly (he was a physics major in China), and my mom got herself some JDS minimum wage job to support herself and me. I was an ESL student who took an English class in China that taught me that my instructor's name was "Mrs. Pineapple." My family (my mom and I) had no car until 2000, when my dad rejoined us. We (my mom and I) lived in a 20-story apartment building, while my dad lived in some dinky apartment with cockroaches under the bed.</p>

<p>2000 was the first year my parents lived together since Japan, when I was 4. When I moved to NJ, my entire neighborhood was black. Since then, we've bought a house, my dad's job's paying him well, and I have the sweetest little brother who's going through a video game craze.</p>

<p>Please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about just because of my race and current situation. I've overcome the same circumstances. I sat home and studied while an entire legion of black kids from the ghetto wandered aimlessly around, made out, got knocked up, got into drugs, whatever. And colleges are saying that they've had it worse off than I did? It was their choice to screw over their lives; me and my Asian being had nothing to do with it.</p>

<p>I find that ridiculous.</p>

<p>I don't mean to be insulting. It's just that Affirmative Action inherently screws me over, and I hate the very idea of it. I'm sure there are a lot of ghetto-folks who deserved better, but not the ones I've lived near. A friend of mine lived in the same apartment complex as I did (I can't really say as to her prior conditions), and she got EA into MIT, 2360 SAT scores, and a 99.7 GPA in one of the best schools in the state. As for privacy's sake, I won't detail any more of her life, but it was just as stricken, if not more.</p>

<p>Edit: @ Brand ~ haha. Yeah. Minus the whole Railroad guru thing. I think I'd be more of a Cheryl, though, without the falling in "love" with the wrong guy.</p>

27

<p>"Colleges use Affirmative Action NOT to, as Mallomar you say, rectify past injustices, nor do they use it to help out those people who they feel are disadvantaged: They are doing it for themselves."</p>

<p>I have to agree. Colleges want to use AA as a way to force a false sense of diversity on all of us. If you think about it, colleges like to advertise to us teens. Look at the pamphlets and letters you get just begging you to go. I've gotten things like like "fast-action application" where you don't need to write an essay. I also get booklets and pamphlets from colleges, many highlighting that particular college's best attributes. I know NYU in particular takes pride in its diverse student body. </p>

<p>I got a large booklet from them with profiles of like 6 different students. There was an Asian guy, a white guy, a black girl, a hispanic guy, and a hispanic/white girl. Each attended a different NYU undergrad college. They really tried to cover all the bases with this pamplet. Colleges don't really care about you as a person. As cold as this statement sounds, they just want you to attend so you can pay them. $ keeps them going, just like any other business. If you are truly exceptional and are the type of student that will make them look REALLY good, they might give you a large scholarship. These students could be used as selling points themselves. "So and so was an Intel finalist w/a perfect SAT score" or "So and so led the NCAA in tounchdowns." As bleak as it sounds, that's all we are to colleges, a group to advertise to. </p>

<p>If you still don't believe me, how many of you really think hat you'll still be getting emails or pamphlets from colleges saying what a great person you are when you're in your 40s? The only letters from a college you'll be seeing at that point is either going to before for your kids or from your alma mater asking you for some cash $. Again, it all sounds bitter, but is it wrong?</p>

<p>AA forced diversity is another selling point. It attracts the latino/black community and liberal whites+Asians who somehow think that being surrounded with more URMs will somehow make them smarter and better overall. It is all a load of BS to me. </p>

<p>I have experineced both end of the spectrum, attending both predominantly white+black schools. What I have found is that it makes little difference who is around you in school. Most of all, it is the student who controlls his/her destiny.</p>

<p>PS: Congratulations on your accomplishments Taggart. I see that you have had to go through you own share of problems. Your accomplishments prove that you don't need to be a rich prep school kid to achieve a high SAT or GPA (I've seen your SAT score, it is amazingly high). You put in the hard work and the effort paid off, just like it did for the black girl in my middle school class.</p>

28

<p>the ivy's as most universities are non-profit. it's not about the money.</p>

29

<p>It's about the money. They may be nonprofit, but they like money so they can buy cool stuff. Does Harvard need that endowment? Would the world be better off if Harvard took half that money and put it towards ending disease or something? Do they really need lots of donations?</p>

<p>About AA, are you saying that URMs can walk into admissiosn offices with sub par stats and be offered admission and scholarships while perfect little Asians and whites are being rejected? That situation is far from the truth. I have seen some very qualified URMs see rejections from top colleges. URMs arent offered acceptances left and right, they have to work very hard, and they will see many rejections as well. Race is used as a sort of tip factor, and not a major deciding factor. Colleges like racial diversity. The most selective schools see that most of their applincats are qualified and that they have infinite combinations for student bodies that will all be very strong. How a college chooses applicants is up to them. To say that a college should not take a URM with lower GPA and SAT over the Asians and whites is like saying a college should not take an applicant with lower GPA and SAT who is very interested in a department that the college wants to improve and bring up over the hundreds of premed applicants.</p>

<p>I've said this before, and I'll say it again, if you disagree with a college's admission policies, dont apply. It's as simple as that.</p>

30

<p>
[quote]
AA needs to be adapted to being solely economic based. Does it show character when the black kid from the boarding school gets in with a 2100 over the white kid with the 2350? What "diverse" experiences does he bring to the table? Give me a break.

[/quote]
The amount of blacks in top colleges would decline. Simple. As. That.</p>

31

<p>I think admissions should be based more on income status rather than race. </p>

<p>Both of my parents make less than $60,000 combined. Two years before, my dad was the only one working and he was scraping out $30,000 for a three person family while my mom attended a state university. </p>

<p>And guess what? There is no way I'm going to a top college. Why? Because I was unlucky enough to be born into a poor family. Why should I be held back by that?</p>

<p>Instead, I'm probably going to end up going to a community college for 2 years, and then transfer to a state uni.</p>

32

<p>Colleges take into account your financial situation and try to find the postives in your applicaton. If you search some of the Harvard admit threads, you will find kids who are not so well off with bellow average stats who got in. If your major EC is working to earn money, but you still maintain very good grades and have strong SAT scores (about 2200) with compelling essays, it will probably look a lot better than rich kids with the same stats becasue they had the money to participate in some great ECs, money for SAT prep and tutoring, and essay editing. A lot of top schools are reaching out to low income students, so your chances may be better than someone with similar stats who comes from money.</p>

33

<p>3 lefts make a right, so instead of AA should colleges make 3 left turns for all URM applicants?</p>