<p>Tyrone Willingham was awesome. My friend goes to ND as did his parents, and he told me that the rich, white, racist alumni were dubious about Ty from the start. Complaints came immediately after the 38-0 loss to the always superior Michigan Wolverines (sorry, I had to include that!), and escaladed throught the season. Firing a coach before the contract is over is an unclassy decision, and it makes Notre Dame look bad. I'm glad no one good wants to coach them now. I have always been a fan of Notre Dame football (except when they play the greatest team, Michigan) because they maintain academic standards for athletes, but this is rediculous. (I didn't apply there because the catholic nature of the school and some of the rules and policies seemed too rediculous and archaic for me and Michigan was a better fit as far as research opportunities and larger resources, etc)</p>
<p>Nirv, you really shouldn't post speculation as fact.</p>
<p>Ty Willingham is, indeed, a class act, as The Dad points out, but he is not "awesome" as a football coach. He is good as a football coach, and ND wanted awesome. Do I think they should have pulled the trigger this year? No. But to date Willingham has not proven himself to be an "awesome" coach, and he admitted so himself. I'd like to have seen what one more year would have done. I'm doubtful it would have changed much, but he should probably have had that chance.</p>
<p>I have heard much criticism out there about his choice of staff. The coaching, motivational, and recruiting ability of your staff is about as important as the coaching ability of the head man - maybe more. The mood was relatively lethargic, I've heard, and the same attitude was present in recruiting. You've got to have energy out there and in people's homes.</p>
<p>You said, "My friend goes to ND as did his parents, and he told me that the rich, white, racist alumni were dubious about Ty from the start." That is the most assumptive generalization ever made about this whole mess. First, that rich people are racist, that white people are racist, and that ND alumni are racist if they happen to also be rich and white. What a load - and I assume by reporting on your friend's and his parent's opinions you have some factual reason to believe it to be true? I know tons of extremely wealthy ND alums and everyone had very high hopes for Willingham's success at ND. And had he won they would have been his biggest fans. </p>
<p>I hate baseless criticism. Criticism is warranted in this situation, but <em>your</em> points are baseless and malign thousands of individuals quite unfairly. The fact is a handful of influential board members and alums panicked and had Ty fired in the hopes (and false assumption) that they could get Urban Meyer before someone else. It didn't work, and <em>that's</em> why they find themselves in this predicament. Had Urban made a different decision, they might have been hailed as geniuses.</p>
<p>I hope nothing but the best for Willingham; he is a "good" coach and some school out there is going to be lucky to get him. I hope he adjusts his staff decisions in his new position. </p>
<p>And I have to point out - it's entirely possibly you would not even have been admitted to ND. Escalated. Ridiculous. Is there even such a word as "unclassy"?</p>
<p>apparently even the notre dames prez is very, very embarrassed.</p>
<p>i don't think you can deny that he is an <em>awesome</em> coach. you can't prove that either, and it's pretty much subjective. but i could make a great argument that hes one of the top coaches in the nation right now. hes a former espn/home depot coach of the year. multiple time pac 10 coach of the year. he brought a terrible, terrible stanford team from rags to riches and to the rose bowl and more bowl games. notre dames athletic director claimed when hiring ty, </p>
<p>"I spoke to a great many people about Tyrone - and every one of them regards him as one of the very top coaches in the game today - at the college or pro levels," White said. "They regard the job he did at Stanford as simply amazing. </p>
<p>you don't remember when he immediately made an impact with ND, and brought them to top 10 glory in his first year? the year after that, yes, was a disappointment, but it's hard to do much with the 3rd hardest schedule in the nation. this year, there were obvious improvement in the team. you can't really expect to beat pitt, sc, and purdue though, no matter how big of a nd fan you are. plus, his recruiting classes have had one of the highest sat score averages in the ncaa. guys like tim brown, who i assume has great influence(but not enough) among ND alumni, raved about ty's high academic standards. why can't you have an academically and athletically talented football team? he certainly did it at stanford. he just needed more time at nd. trust me, this guy is a miracle worker(in my opinion, of course).</p>
<p>plus, have you heard what people who have worked with him have to say about this guy?? his players worship him, and i think that's a huge, huge plus in a coach.</p>
<p>also, good luck to notre dame's recruitng class next year...... it won't be much, with all these players pondering if they'll even follow through with their verbal commitment to nd now.</p>
<p>you don't think too highly of his recruiting?? well according to rivals.com, hes been averaging in the top 20 recruitng classes in the nation the past three years. not too shabby with academic standards that high, huh?</p>
<p>anyways, i don't feel sorry for ty. if anything, this is great for him. he's going to find a great job in another great program somewhere else. it's just disappointing to see three years of his effort wasted. i feel really bad for the players as well. apparently one of them, Justin Tuck, all-american DE is really, really not taking the news very well.</p>
<p>Notre Dame's recruiting classes under Willingham have been considered substandard by many recruiting analysts. The recruiting classes the last 2 years have NOT been near the top, in fact they are the worst in ND history since those services have been ranking recruiting classes.</p>
<p>From foxsports: <a href="http://feeds.foxsports.com/story/3206148:%5B/url%5D">http://feeds.foxsports.com/story/3206148:</a></p>
<p>"Academically, the football program remains one of the shining stars in college football thanks to Willingham, but it's all about on-field performance. Many will point to the 12 Irish players drafted over the last two seasons and the number of others finding spots on NFL rosters and suggest that the talent was there for Willingham to win. However, that's a bit misleading. There's a difference between having a ton of players getting NFL paychecks and difference-making NFL talents. USC has that talent. Miami has that talent. So does LSU, Ohio State, and this year, Oklahoma.</p>
<p>"Tyrone Willingham didn't talk difference-making recruits into going to school in South Bend. (Joe Raymond / AP) </p>
<p>"Notre Dame doesn't have that "elite of the elite" talent anymore, and part of that is Willingham's fault and part of it was Bob Davie's fault. And the first order of business for the new coach will be to turn the recruiting up several notches, and getting quick results from that will be tough to do unless JUCO players can be added to the mix. </p>
<p>"Yes, the academic restrictions at Notre Dame are tough, but Michigan, Texas, California, and Virginia are tremendous academic institutions that have made the football programs work. The new coach has to make sure that star players with the academic skills that are interested in Notre Dame go to Notre Dame. For example, New Mexico RB DonTrell Moore was a 4.0 high school student and was interested in Notre Dame, but the Irish failed to land him. Lorenzo Booker told the Irish coaching staff he'd be going to South Bend, and then changed his mind to Florida State on his way to the podium to make his announcement. The academic restrictions weren't supposed to be a problem for Willingham, who succeeded at a far tougher school, Stanford. The problem was actually landing the elite of the elite on a consistent basis."</p>
<p>Now let's talk about "awesome". Awesome is Lou Holtz picking up the shambles left by Gerry Faust and turning them into national champions in three years. "Awesome" coaches win national championships, or at least come very, very close. If you believe Ty is an awesome coach, you use the word very loosely and with little weight. </p>
<p>Of course I remember the first year Ty was there - he did very well. And, as I've said before, he should have been given another year to see if he could produce a consistent team again. But don't forget that in Willingham's first winning season, it was all done by the defense. It was a relatively crazy season, where all of TDs in the first 6 games were scored by the D, and basically the defense won the game over and over again. He never succeeded in making the offense act in a coherent manner.</p>
<p>It's not a matter of what I think of his ability to recruit (nor did I imply it was about my opinion). The criticism I have heard about his staff is inside information from the industry, so to speak, so it carries true credibility. Now, I will also tell you that almost always, and on any D1 team, when a coaching change is made the players are: upset, hurt, want to transfer, worshipped the coach, and so on. This is par for the course, and what you are hearing from ND players and coworkers is not unique in this situation.</p>
<p>O.K; I have read all the above stuff. I will now tell you the facts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Willingham cannot recruit.</p></li>
<li><p>Willingham's teams were exactly like his teams at Stanford; blow out losses sandwiched around a few good wins. His teams have never been consistent.</p></li>
<li><p>He is not a good game day coach.</p></li>
<li><p>He should have never been hired.</p></li>
<li><p>There is a core of ND administrators and faculty that don't want a dominant football program. They associate ND's football tradition with the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church. They are liberals to the core and will not rest until they turn ND into a University with no real Catholic identity; that includes dragging down the football program.</p></li>
<li><p>ND can have an excellent football program with players that are required to meet high academic and behavior standards.</p></li>
<li><p>Willingham was only given 3 years because ND had just been through the 5 years of Davie's mess. If Willingham had been proceeded by a winner he would have had more time like Faust and Davie</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Notre Dame Recruiting Class rankings according to rivals.com and prepstar/cbs sportsline
2002: 24th best recruiting class
2003: 12th best recruiting class/11th best recruiting class
2004: 32nd best recruiting class</p>
<p>Virginia
2002: 12th best recruiting class
2003: 20th best recruiting class/20th best recruiting class
2004: 40th best recruiting class</p>
<p>California
2002: 64th best recruitng class
2003: 14th best recruitng class/17th best recruiting class
2004: 23rd best recruiting class</p>
<p>those numbers are not substandard. </p>
<p>changing of a coach does not always cause this big of a disturbance, especially to all-american players. great coaches like willingham usually choose to leave, and the players are disappointed but understand. bad coaches, like buddy teevens of stanford, are fired, and the players are glad he's gone. but... if a great coach is fired?..... this is what you get..... your own president turning his own back on the football program, saying he is "embarrassed", all american players threatening to transfer, a majority of the recruiting class threatening to withdraw their verbal commitment, and this whole frenzy of media and people like me who disapprove of the program.</p>
<p>and let me tell you, willingham is a legend in the bay area(where i used to live) and at stanford. players and fans long for the days of ty. he brought a crap stanford team to glory in the ROSE BOWL in short time. that warrants a label as an "awesome" coach. especially when your academic standards are that high.</p>
<p>the program needs to get it into its head that it's not a top football program anymore. you can't have one of the hardest schedules in the nation and expect to rebuild just like that. apparently they're learning, and the schedule will be much, much easier next year. i guarantee you, no matter who was coaching nd, noone could have done a better job than ty. look at the losses and who they were to, great, great teams. they were inching back up to national glory, hell they were almost ranked this season. now nd wants to start all over, as this years recruiting class will be very, very poor due to bad decisions and bad timing.</p>
<p>seriously, if your own president doesn't back you up, you're in trouble.</p>
<p>btw, i'm not trying to be hostile or anything. i'm just a big college football fan, and like to debate these type of things. so, thanks, dr. mom, this is just what i like to do, and it's fun :)</p>
<p>"5. There is a core of ND administrators and faculty that don't want a dominant football program. They associate ND's football tradition with the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church. They are liberals to the core and will not rest until they turn ND into a University with no real Catholic identity; that includes dragging down the football program."</p>
<p>Somehow I doubt the truth of this.</p>
<p>docmom, your whole post is from one editorial by a foxnews writer. one writer is not a definitive source.</p>
<p>Malloy is on his way out. His comments are meant to cover his rear on his way out. And good ridance I might add. As for ND recruiting classes. Perhaps a very good coach could take below average classes and make something of them, but ND doesn't just want to be a once in a while great team, like California. By the way; even before Ty was fired this years recruiting class was already shaping up to be terrible again. Finally, in no way was the team improving. If Ty had stayed the results would have been the same year in and year out.</p>
<p>actually, this years recruiting class wasn't going to be half bad. guys like evan sharpley, scott smith, and joey hibben are among the top prospects in the country, and they all committed to nd. they already had 10-11 commitments of top players. probably only half will follow through. anyways, the majority of recruits haven't committed yet anyways.</p>
<p>The last time I checked they did not have 1 player in rival.coms top 100. They did not have 1 5 star player. They were ranked around 30. Of course, the bottom line is this: Can the guy coach? Answer; No. Gerry Faust had great talent but he couldn't coach it.</p>
<p>wait docmom you obtained that from foxnews? <em>cough</em> worst, most horribly-biased news ever <em>cough</em></p>
<p>They would be saved if they could get Charlie Weis. But who knows?</p>
<p>My conclusion as well. Offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl champ. Does it for me.</p>
<p>Look, I am not going to reveal why this is so, but I have incredibly solid inside sources in D1 athletics, and I am telling you that this is what has been said for the last two years about many of the assistants on that staff. And I just pulled up one article, geesh, there are others that talk about ND's average recruiting:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay10.html:%5B/url%5D">http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay10.html:</a> "Again, I don't take issue with Willingham being fired because he wasn't recruiting well and wasn't maximizing the talent he did have."</p>
<p>Oh and Foxsports just picked up that column, which originated in collegefootballnews.com.</p>
<p>And even if recruiting is in the same boat as USC and UVa, I hate to point it out to you but those two schools were top ten this season. Notre Dame? Not even on the charts except for a blip at #25. So by <em>your</em> argument it must come down to coaching ability, with Willingham not being up to par with Carroll or Groh.</p>
<p>sun times=almost as right wing as fox news :)</p>
<p>well, just look at those rankings from rivals and cbs sportsline. look at other college recruiting publications, and they'll have nd recruiting at around the same top rankings in those years. why did they not perform this year?? because his jewel recruiting class of 2003 are only sophomores right now. he played with another coach's seniors this year. jeese, he barely got settled in(the whole team wasn't even recruited by him) and he got the axe.</p>
<p>also, why would there be THIS much controversy and THIS many trustees outraged if willingham deserved to get fired? by the way, i still resent that you deny that he is an awesome coach. read what his players and peers have to say about him, and look at what he did with the stanford program.</p>