U Cambridge admissions process

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>This is a reposting, as I am not sure I posted in the correct forum. </p>

<p>I have received queries about how my D got into Cambridge. For those who are interested, I have sketched out the process below.</p>

<p>Most important, you must know what you want to study, i.e. your major - the 3-year course combines curriculum from undergraduate and graduate levels. That means you should demonstrate, through focused experience and effort, that you have been pursuing your interests. Some disciplines are easier to get into than others, e.g. Classics v. medicine. After that, there are many hurdles and requirements.</p>

<p>First, to apply, you have to meet strict grade requirements. If you are a foreign applicant, from a different system, this adds a bit of flexibility, but not much.</p>

<p>Second, if they are interested in you, they ask for very personal essays that require research and an expression of the applicant's own thoughts. Parents are instructed to let it be a pure product of the applicant, with no writing help. I was very impressed with this, as it was a growth experience for my daughter.</p>

<p>Third, they can invite you for an interview on campus. Beyond probing what you know until they stump you, this is to check if you have the "right attitude", that you "shine" yet know your limits. It was an exercise in humility for my D.</p>

<p>Fourth, they can ask you to take tests in your topic, though this was not required of my daughter.</p>

<p>Fifth, if they make you an offer, it is conditional. They set precise overall grade requirements (or class ranking) - my daughter had to get very high grades on her BAC exams (in her French high school), in some cases for specific disciplines; my daughter had to get A+ in honors math.</p>

<p>For this final hurdle, we formulated a strategy. We looked at her strengths and got a tutor to prepare for her BAC exams (they demand a specific style of answer, which was what we prepared for - not content, but style), in a sense knowing what she could ace and how it was weighted to affect the overall score. We avoided emphasis on subjectively graded subjects, such as philosophy, and concentrated on those over which we had more "control".</p>

<p>Directly comparing statistics between US and UK admissions processes is misleading. First, with the common UK application, you can only apply to 5 schools. Second, you cannot apply to both Cambridge and Oxford. Third, the grade requirements are rigid, eliminating many qualified applicants from the statistical pool. Fourth, there is no "legacy" advantage, though if you go to the right public (read "private") school in Britain, you are conditioned for the culture. Finally, my D applied as a European, though she could have done as an American. Americans may have additional requirements, such as submission of SATs.</p>

<p>I should note that applicants have to choose a college within Oxbridge to apply to directly. If that one lacks places in the chosen discipline but thinks the applicant is qualified, they are put into a "pool" with other colleges, which can choose to repeat certain steps in the application process. My D was "pooled" from St. Catherine and offered a place elsewhere. Also, extra-curricular activities are not very important; that being said, my D is an accomplished singer, which we believe helped as she was asked to audition in person for the chorus while still on conditional acceptance. </p>

<p>As one can imagine, it was a long and stressful process right up to last July, when her BAC results were posted at school. We were focused on the process for the last 2 years, though from age 12, my D had expressed interest in going to Oxford and had read a book about how to get into Oxbridge. As it turned out, she visited Oxford at 17 and didn't like as much as Cambridge. While my D was motivated to pursue her field on her own, we also nurtured her interests and offered her opportunities for work experiences in it, which she loved.</p>

2

<p>I actually think the above is completely mad and entirely at odds with the experience of the vast majority of Oxbridge students.</p>

<p>I’ve never heard of this special personal essay for a start. Do you mean UCAS personal statement? If so, it is extremely brief and essentially has to say I am a very focussed student on this subject because of the following.</p>

<p>I went to Cambridge (though I did UK A-levels so I had regular admissions requirements) and got a first in natural sciences. I started to think about it about 6 months before applying. My school did mock interviews (which were based on the interviews you can watch on YouTube). I then went to the interview and got in.</p>

<p>I did not begin preparing when I was 12. The application process is extremely unstressful as all I did was fill in a form and forget about it about (just continued working hard at school to get the grades as always). I never had a tutor in my life. I never attended a private school either (though I did attend school in several countries as my parents moved).</p>

<p>I have never heard of additional entry requirements for US students. As per the websites of Oxford and Cambridge, they accept APs, IB or SAT IIs instead of other qualifications. There is nothing extra.</p>

<p>At a UK uni, you are on your own. A student who is 18 is considered an adult and left to their own devices. I would be very very concerned about a student as described above who needed that much help to get in (and spent 5 years longer than anyone else preparing for it). How will they cope? They won’t be treated as special or get extra help above and beyond that given to all students. The extra support found in US colleges is not there eg no RA. Can this student cope without parents? Studying in a foreign country suits very independent students IMHO.</p>

3

<p>I think the problem is that the UK system is so different from the American one that to an American like alcibiade it looks weird and bizarre, but to someone who is used to it like cupcake it’s just completely normal.</p>

<p>If you are an American with NO EXPERIENCE of the British educational system, the process of admissions to a UK college or University is going to seem very very strange. Since you have been raised to think of American things as “normal” the British things will seem “abnormal”.</p>

<p>I think the “special personal essay” is indeed the UCAS personal statement. This is very different from the sorts of essays that American students have to write for admissions, because the personal statements needs to be very focussed on the intended course of study (what we call in the USA a “major”). An American admissions essay does not have to be so focussed, and people get away with all kinds of things.</p>

<p>The interview for a UK college will be quite different from the interview for a USA college.</p>

<p>And so on.</p>

<p>KEVP</p>

4

<p>Real, she did the UCAS personal statement, then was later asked to do an essay as a preliminary to the decision to ask her for an interview. I have since talked to some Cambridge students, who were surprised that she was asked to do so, so I guess it’s unusual. They said it was essentially like the papers that are done regularly during the term. She took it as an opportunity to show what she could do and worked very hard on it.</p>

<p>I do not wish to give the impression that we thought anything “weird”. We saw the steps, made an assessment on how to get there, and she executed. In spite of the stress, I was impressed with the process.</p>

<p>All I am doing is trying to be helpful to others who are entering the process by describing the experience. That was my D’s experience and it was somewhat unique as she did it from the French public school system. (That is why I said she needed to practice mastering the BAC style with a tutor.) Beyond the book she read at age 12, we received little useful advice, though everyone seemed to have an opinion. </p>

<p>I am happy to try to answer questions based on our experience to help others.</p>

5

<p>A little harsh, cupcake- alcibiade was just sharing their experience to be helpful to others (and note that we don’t know if alcibiade is American, French or something else- just that the daughter finished secondary school in France and is a dual citizen of the US and France). </p>

<p>They started preparing 2 years out, which you did as well- just that you only had to follow the typical plan for UK students, which French (and US, etc.) students need to organize for themselves. For example, US secondary schools vary widely in what courses you can take when, so scheduling your courses so that you can take the exams (APs, etc.) you need in time takes some forethought. This is especially true for Cambridge, as they require more exams from US students than some of the other unis. </p>

<p>The tutor was clearly to help her learn how to sit the French Bac- classic test prep, which is not uncommon in the US, and not unknown in the UK (we have the test prep company flyers to prove it!).</p>

<p>The ‘special essay’ (according to my Cambridge contacts) is unusual, though alcibiade (working from a sample of 1) would not know that. I do know that some subjects at Oxford ask for essays (history, for example, asks for a graded essay to be sent as part of your application), and it might have been a similar situation. </p>

<p>Alcibiade, thanks for sharing your own experience. Did you ever go to the student room? it is a UK website that is a great resource for students applying to UK universities (you have to google it, b/c CC always stars the words out)</p>

<p>(and cupcake, I do enjoy your posts, and am suitably impressed by your First ;-))</p>

6

<p>WOW! Congrats!</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Where she took A-classes (or whatever they are called)? I know that AP classes are not accepted. Is it possible to take these exams online? In US?</p></li>
<li><p>What is the list of classes that are needed?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My D. is interested in economics. (math, microeconomics, macroeconomics, what else?) English? History? Statistic?</p>

<p>Is it listed somewhere?</p>

7

<p>to cupcake,</p>

<p>It may be easy for you, because you are within the system. However, for a typical US student, it is almost impossible to get into Oxbridge, just with high school grades. As far as I understand, the admission criteria are very, very different.</p>

8

<p>californiaaa, you are mistaken- the admission criteria are not very different for UK and US applicatnts- in both cases it is only the marks on national exams that are used. For UK students that is the A level system, in the US it is SATs, SATIIs and APs. There are some differences in the admissions process, which is what alcibiade was trying to share. All of the information you and your daughter need is readily available on the university websites, but like everything else about college in the UK- you have to do your own homework. It’s good practice for your daughter if she goes :-)</p>

9

<p>I think what california meant was “The admissions requirements to get into a UK college or uni are very different from the admissions requirements to get into a US college or uni.” Which is true.</p>

<p>Most UK colleges or unis, especially Oxford and Cambridge, will not be impressed by a high GPA–they will not be impressed by someone that got high grades in high school.</p>

<p>They definitely ARE interested in American AP tests, these are the closest thing the USA has to British A-levels. So they are interested in the actual score you get on these AP tests, they are NOT interested in the grade you got in the AP class. I remember telling this to another participant here who had a high grade in the CLASS–an A, but didn’t do nearly as well on the actual test. That A doesn’t help them at all, all that most UK colleges and unis will be looking at is the actual test scores.</p>

<p>Remember that each college or university has its own webpage nowadays, which is a good place to start getting information. Remember that an American is considered a “foreign” or “international” student in the UK, so be sure to get the information in that section.</p>

10

<p>Ah, yes, real - I see your point :-)</p>

11

<p>to TheRealKEVP,</p>

<p>THANKS!</p>

12

<p>Real, in my opinion, the grades or GPA or AP scores are only the first step, the minimum to be considered. Those without the grades will not make the first hurdle (proving a minimum academic aptitude), so do not even apply. After that hurdle is when the real evaluation starts, and that is what you are interested in, what you have done in that direction, and whether or not you will fit in with the culture (i.e. do they want to work with you).</p>

<p>We also found the webpage, at least for Cambridge, pretty clunky and minimally informative.</p>

13

<p>Alcibiade, GPA is not relevant for most uK unis (St. Andrews, which takes a lot of US students, does specify, but most do not). Cambridge, for example, just a wants a good high school diploma for US students. I agree, however, that the APs (etc) are to establish a base line of ability and, in many cases, background in the subject area. And I also agree that the Cambridge website is not user friendly :-)</p>

14

<p>You are basically on the right track, alcibiade.</p>

<p>However, GPA doesn’t count for ANYTHING at Cambridge. All they want are those AP test scores. I agree, if you don’t have those AP test scores, don’t apply.</p>

<p>That is the big hurdle, and most people fall down at that one. Once you pass that hurdle, you work on your personal statement and your interview. And, no, they are not going to give you a lot of information about that on their website. The big adjustment at this point for most Americans is that they are looking for someone who is obviously commited to studying their chosen subject (what we call a “major” in the US) for three years. They are not looking for someone “well-rounded”, because someone who gets involved in too many extracurriculars may be someone who will become distracted from their subject. That’s a “change of gears” for most Americans, but I am sure you can do it.</p>

15

<p>Real, This is a great forum for us would-be applicants, I am working toward applying to oxford via UCAS this coming fall. One problem I am considering is applying ‘open’ or to a specific college for PPE. How would you advise, I have reviewed all the colleges which offer PPE and most are somewhat similar, so I would like to at least consider a college which might be a better fit, but is an Open app the best way to go, or is a specific application to a specific college better, I am leaning toward Brasenose or Oriel. UCAS app now complete, personal statement to do, TSA scheduled November 6th. I will have 6 AP’s mostly 5 I hope, 2 x 800 on SAT subject tests and a 2120 SAT with a 2nd attempt to come in october. Open or Specific…?</p>

16

<p>Englishman (jumping in over Real here), you might as well start with one that has pieces that appeal to you more. The pooling system really does work, so there is no downside to applying to a college (v an open app). Remember that 20-30% of candidates get offers from a college other than the one they first applied to. And it’s a cliche but pretty much everybody ends up happy with their college. Are you on the oxford applicants for 2014 page at the student room website? there is a lot of great info there as well.</p>

17

<p>An open app is not the best way to go in my opinion. It makes no difference to your application; it certainly won’t improve your chances of getting an offer. It simply means that you don’t care which college you live in. Do you not have any preferences? Some colleges are in nicer locations. Some provide accommodation for all three years, others do not. The richer colleges have lots of travel grants available, the poorer more modern colleges do not. The modern colleges are often free of tourists and more relaxed. The education you receive will be the same, but the living conditions and lifestyle at each college will be different - pick one you’d be most happy with.</p>

18

<p>English, I assume you have visited Oxford? If not, it is really worth taking the time to do so - and Cambridge (not known for politics, I know) is only about 60 miles away, so good for comparison. You can choose a college by your impressions of it and as collegemom says, the pooling system works. I agree with nordiblue that open app offers no advantage.</p>

19

<p>Thanks All, I agree a specific college may have some benefit, it is tough to choose when most offer PPE and all are good locations. I have visited Oxford and my father lived near for many years, I do know the city quite well. But that said, it is different as to where and which college I want to live at for the next 3 years. I think I will narrow it down and then choose one which appears a good fit and hope I get offered an interview and then take it from there.</p>