<p>How important is size and quality of undergrad education with respect to it to you? Even in-classroom experiences would be very different at these two. Grad school is a different story, but for undergrad, I’d certainly pick Princeton. Michigan is indeed a very highly ranked engineering school, but you must understand that much of that has to do with graduate research. You could be in lecture halls with hundreds for your first couple of years.</p>
<p>^^^^Please ignore unsubstantiated comments by ignorant people who know very little about The University of Michigan.</p>
<p>Wait a sec, 6% or 7% of Michigan’s classes have over 100 students and half of their classes have less than 20 students … I don’t understand where the comment that “you could be in lecture halls with hundreds for your first couple of years” is coming from:</p>
<p>See page 2 of Section I:</p>
<p><a href=“Office of Budget and Planning”>Office of Budget and Planning;
<p>
</p>
<p>No he wouldn’t. No one here’s doubting that princeton’s the better school, but, again, not worth the 100k. It’s not like Michigan offers this scholarship to anyone either. Here’s a comment from faculty on the shipman society</p>
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</p>
<p>[The</a> University of Michigan Shipman Society](<a href=“U-M Web Hosting”>U-M Web Hosting)</p>
<p>Look, truth is OP, if you were good enough to get this scholarship, you’ll be good enough to accomplish anything you could at Princeton. Go to michigan, and save the 100k (if you have it) for something more valuable.</p>
<p>Oh gosh. It’s not just about the course list. It’s about the experience in the classes, the size, the accessibility etc. If the OP has a better use for the $$$ in mind, he should go to Michigan. It’s a great school. That said, Princeton offers some good points and unique experiences for undergraduates and students with broad interests that Michigan doesn’t provide so easily. If those points provide the right ROI to the OP, head to New Jersey.</p>
<p>
I don’t understand your logic. This statement is totally irrelevant as the OP is not interested in medicine.</p>
<p>
I don’t understand this statement either. Michigan certainly has more grads at top 5/top 10 engineering grad schools than most other schools including Princeton … and Duke.</p>
<p>
… and engineering.</p>
<p>“No one from Michigan has enrolled in Stanford Med in the last decade according to a close friend who went to school there. There’s a relative paucity of Michigan grads at Stanford’s other graduate schools like Engineering as well considering the reputation of Michigan Engineering.”</p>
<p>Goldenboy, do you care to back this up with actual evidence? I know Michigan is well represented at Johns Hopkins, WUSTL and Michigan medical schools. I see no reason why Michigan alums would be any less well represented at any other top 10 Medical school. I also know that Michigan engineers are extremely well represented at top Engineering graduate schools.</p>
<p>Experientiadocet, Michigan classes do not often have over 50 students once you get past intro-level classes. Generally speaking, most students do not take many 100 level classes at Michigan anyway. Out of my 40+ classes, only a handful had more than 50 students, and the majority had fewer than 30. There are obviously going to be large classes at any research university, and Michigan certainly has its fair share. But to insinuate that the quality of education at Michigan is significantly lower than that of Princeton is a stretch. Just ask ex-president Shapiro and he would tell you that the difference in quality of undergraduate education at Michigan and Princeton is negligible. The gap is further reduced for students who can benefit from the Honors program or the Shipman scholarship.</p>
<p>As I recommended above, if money is not a concern, Princeton is the way to go, assuming the campus culture at Princeton agrees with you. If finances are a concern and attending Princeton would result in significant debt, I would recommend Michigan.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>I think Alexandre summed it up rather nicely in the last paragraph.</p>
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</p>
<p>The same can be said of Michigan… Princeton is not worth the $100K, especially if you want to continue with grad school.</p>
<p>It makes no financial sense to buy new cars but people do it every day. It makes no financial sense to live in a particularly nice house since a trailer will keep you dry in the rain. I think everyone here is agreeing that the OP should not be considering Michigan if it were the same price. It is ridiculous to say “Princeton is not worth the $100K” without qualifying it to say “to me”. It is a very reasonable way to spend that money and is as much a discretionary purchase as paying for a nicer house, food or car (and most borrow to purchase a house or car). Even people of similar income and assets don’t approach those purchases the same way and neither would one expect they would be the same when it comes to purchasing their child’s education.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the OP will be getting a fine education at either school. You should also qualify what you said “It is a very reasonable way to spend that money” TO ME…
I would argue that most people would think being saddled with $100K in debt after college is a significant amount of money and a considerable amount and burden to repay. We are not comparing a top school with a subpar questionable unaccredited for profit one. We are talking about Michigan and Princeton, which are both among the best schools out there. I think it would be ludicrous and irresponsible if someone chooses to go into such debt with the expectation that choosing Princeton over Michigan would increase his/her ability for success.</p>
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</p>
<p>RHODES SCHOLARS SINCE 1985
[Winning</a> Institutions Search |The Rhodes Scholarships](<a href=“Office of the American Secretary | The Rhodes Scholarships”>Office of the American Secretary | The Rhodes Scholarships)
[Winning</a> Institutions Search |The Rhodes Scholarships](<a href=“Office of the American Secretary | The Rhodes Scholarships”>Office of the American Secretary | The Rhodes Scholarships)
Princeton: 46
University of Michigan: 3</p>
<p>Michigan gets a Rhodes Scholar once a decade while Princeton gets two a year usually.</p>
<p>I can’t the information for medical school and engineering, but Princeton holds a tremendous advantage in law school admissions.</p>
<p>Among some of the T-14 Law schools…
[Stats</a> « Office of Career Services « Princeton University](<a href=“Search Opportunities | Human Resources”>Search Opportunities | Human Resources)
[College</a> of Literature, Science, and the Arts : Students](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats]College”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats)</p>
<p>Duke
Princeton: 23.3% admitted
Michigan: 16.8% admitted</p>
<p>Georgetown
Princeton: 35.8% admitted
Michigan: 19.1% admitted</p>
<p>Harvard
Princeton: 26.0% admitted
Michigan: 12.6% admitted</p>
<p>Columbia
Princeton: 43.2% admitted
Michigan: 14.10% admitted</p>
<p>NYU
Princeton: 50% admitted
Michigan: 25.3% admitted</p>
<p>Stanford
Princeton: 23.1% admitted
Michigan: 10% admitted</p>
<p>Yale
Princeton: 26.4%
Michigan: 4%</p>
<p>You see the pattern here. Michigan and UCLA students are multiple notches below the average Princeton student. Since your peer group tends to determine your success in college, you’re better off at Princeton.</p>
<p>No one is disputing that Princeton has the stronger students, which is probably why they do better in grad school admissions and the Rhodes.</p>
<p>Your post implies that the OP would have a better shot at the elite grad schools and even at a Rhodes by attending Princeton. You’re confusing causation and correlation.</p>
<p>To the OP (and you goldenboy should pay particular attention), here’s a study that may give you some measure of comfort and perspective: <a href=“http://www.international.ucla.edu/cms/files/w7322.pdf[/url]”>http://www.international.ucla.edu/cms/files/w7322.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’m not saying you should pick Michigan, but bear in mind that there’s a lot of selection bias in this forum. Here there’s a tendency among some to obsessively overstate the importance of where one goes to school like analyzing whether one should pick Yale over Harvard based on the architecture of the freshman dining hall and how much this will affect your college experience and hence the rest of your life.</p>
<p>Part of the reason Princeton students are so successful is because their cohort and peer group in college is so exceptionally strong. There’s obviously a clear difference in the strength of the student bodies at Michigan and Princeton right from the outset but I think that gap widens further with the effect of the peer group, the resources Princeton has for its undergraduates, and a superior undergraduate education.</p>
<p>The vast majority of Michigan students don’t do the same things as your average Princeton student (employment, graduate school, and professional school). This cannot be disputed.</p>
<p>for at least when it comes to income. Motivated, high achieving students like the OP do just as well ,financially at least, whether they attend an Ivy or not. </p>
<p>The other issue you’re overlooking is whether Princeton is worth $100k more than Michigan. This is Michigan we’re talking about, not Podunk U. A Lexus provides a better riding experience than a Toyota, but is it worth that much more. Both are equally adept at going from Point A to Point B.</p>
<p>Golden:</p>
<p>For someone who spends so much time trying to convince strangers that you’re smart, I find it cute that you make so many patently false assertions. Honestly, everyone here should be offended by your argument that Princeton students do better simply because they went to Princeton and Michigan students do worse simply because they go to Michigan. You went to Duke buddy. Guess what: you’re going to be less successful than the rank and file Princeton student! After all, ACT/SAT scores are all that determine one’s potential for success, right? </p>
<p>Two of my close friends from UM just graduated and will be going to Harvard Law (assuming the one chooses it over Stanford, Columbia, UChicago, and UMich). Are you going to tell me this was a fluke? Perhaps charity?</p>
<p>You’re an elitistwe all get that. Post after post you make that painfully clear. But if any of these statements were true, the only successful people in this country would be Ivy graduates. Go ahead, make that argument.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>It is clear to me that you are not the “average Michigan student”. Regardless of where you go, you will go far in life. Getting into Princeton is an accomplishment in itself. Personally, I would choose Michigan. It is a much better value and is a very well respected school, especially in the engineering field. You will feel great when you graduate knowing you have no loans to pay off, and can start making money immediately.</p>
<p>Undergraduate education only gets your foot in the door at a company, the rest is up to you.</p>
<p>
No one said that SAT/ACT scores determine anybody’s success. The highly undergraduate-focused education, connections, reputation, resources for jobs/professional school/graduate school admissions, proximity to high-achieving peers across the board, the mandatory thesis requirement, and the personalized attention that Princeton offers cannot be matched by Michigan.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you brought up Duke but private schools like that are a notch below the top 5 schools would offer a lot of the same advantages that Princeton would but there’s still a notable difference.</p>
<p>Most Michigan grads go to run-of-the mill law schools like Michigan State, Wayne State, Cardozo, Brooklyn, Cooley–not NYU Law, Michigan Law, or Harvard Law. You simply don’t graduate from Princeton and go to a non T-14 or top regional law school. It’s not an academic environment that encourages mediocrity.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in traditional engineering jobs, then the OP would be better off choosing Michigan I suppose with the savings advantage. However, if the OP wants to go into high finance/consulting like most Princeton engineers do, then Princeton would be easily worth the 100K.</p>
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<p>I don’t see what the point of bringing “most Michigan grads” into this, seeing as the OP clearly wouldn’t be an average Michigan student if he chose it. Princeton likely has higher percentages of students at TLSs probably just in virtue of their student body being in general more competitive. But since the OP wouldn’t be average, it’s likely that he’d be included in the percentages of Michigan students that were admitted to TLSs</p>
<p>This is purely conjectural, but i heard that Rhodes is gamed by the rich. If that’s the case, which isn’t doubtful, it wouldn’t be surprising that Michigan has a significantly lower Rhodes representation than Princeton does.</p>