<p>Since UCSD/UCLA/UCB are competetive to get into, a lot, probably most, of the incoming students have quite a few AP credits they can take advantage of depending on the major. Depending on the major I think many students could graduate in less than 4 years if they really wanted to. It’s tougher for engineering students, for example, due to the sheer number of courses they’re required to take and the amount of work each of those courses require, but even they can usally graduate in 4 years unless they take a difficult minor along with it or a lower than normal number of classes/quarter. </p>
<p>I also think that possibly due to the less expensive cost of the UCs (in-state) vs. some privates, it’s more feasible for some students to switch their majors a time or two and extend their stay resulting in a longer time to graduate but in these cases it was ‘their’ decision to extend the stay - not something forced on them due to scheduling.</p>
<p>That said, there are bound to be some scheduling conflicts, more so as course offerings are reduced, so the student needs to be pro-active and flexible in determining their strategy for course selection. This might even mean acquiescing to taking some 8am/9am and Friday classes! In many cases if the student can’t make it into a class this quarter they can take it next quarter so it’s not necessarily a catastropic situation.</p>
<p>^ The process varies by campus but in general, the higher the ‘standing’ (fresh/soph/etc.) the higher the priority and often those pursuing a major in the course area (ex: computer science) will have priority for those courses. This is general though. UCLA has a ‘dual signup’ for classes where the student has two dates - the earlier date they can sign up for 2 courses and the second date other courses. This makes them really think through the courses they ‘need’ right away in this quarter so they can sign up for those first at the earlier date and the lower priority courses on the second date hence my comment regarding ‘strategy’ for course selections. UCSD does signup differently. I don’t know how UCB or other UCs handle the course signup.</p>
<p>Note - with a lot of AP credits one can end up with higher standing fairly quickly. For example, I think my D had sophomore standing at the time she entered the UC due to lots of APs even though they didn’t obviate very many classes due to her major.</p>
<p>As far as remediation is concerned, I agree that CSUs need to stop accepting totally unprepared kids. But what about those of us (like myself) who did brilliantly in high school except for one particular area (math)? Are we “unprepared”? No. No one can be good at every area. I took one remedial math class and was done with it. Hooray.</p>
<p>As for being able to graduate in 4 years…you can push off the stats all you want, but the fact is it’s getting harder and harder to graduate at CSUs within 4 years. At least in my experience and that of the people I know. We can’t get classes we need, but we HAVE to be full-time students for the sake of insurance and housing (SSU requires that you be a full-time student in order to live on-campus…although last year they dropped that requirement because so many students could not get enough units to get full-time status.), so we take classes that are in GE areas we’ve already fulfilled, or fulfill no requirement at all. It’s incredibly frustrating, and the worst part is no one seems to care because “it’s not that bad, you’re just not trying hard enough”. Really? What else would they have us do?</p>
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<p>I have the opposite problem. Because I keep getting bad registration times I can’t get the classes I need. Because I can’t get the classes I need, I’m behind on units. Because I’m behind on units, I keep getting bad registration times. Rinse and repeat.</p>
<p>Just think if you and literally thousands of others did not have to take that “one” class…such resources could be applied to courses in your major instead.</p>
<p>I heard that UC Berkeley is $30,000 a year in state. If this is correct, I hardly think the UCs are a bargain for in state students. I also don’t think it makes sense to pay OOS tuition for a UC undergraduate education.</p>
<p>There must be some good OOS public universities which cost less than in state Cal Berkeley and have fewer budget associated difficulties (i.e. crowded dorm, concern about getting classes). For example, what about U. of Alabama, U. of Florida and some of the colleges in Arizona?</p>
<p>I am also wondering for the top academic kids who apply to Cal Berkeley and UCLA-perhaps there are some merit scholarships at private universities which end up costing less than 30k per year? In general, I heard not to assume that the state university is always the cheapest option.</p>
<p>HisGraceFillsMe, best would be that you didn’t need the remedial course. Of course. </p>
<p>Second best when budgetary push comes to shove: remedial classes are done at a local CC, with guaranteed place held at the Cal State if the remedial work is finished within some time period to be determined.</p>
<p>^But is it still worth it if the local CC course is not at the same level?</p>
<p>My local CC is considered an extension of high school, and I doubt that I would have understood the material any better than I did in high school had I taken the course there.</p>
<p>However, I took the class at SSU and understood it better than I ever have, because the teacher was dedicated to teaching it and the students took the class seriously.</p>
<p>I don’t debate that CC is a fine choice for some students; I know several people who are taking that route and thriving. I simply feel that I wouldn’t have done well or understood the material at my local CC.</p>
<p>HisGrace, don’t bother listening to this noise about your remedial class. You did great and are at your “dream school” (too bad if people don’t like the phrase). I’ve read some of your previous posts and know how much you wanted to go to SSU.</p>
<p>Can you elaborate on how difficult it is to get classes there? My S has applied for fall 2010 and we do wonder if he were to be admitted, whether it would be too difficult to get his classes and graduate in four years. Even he, who never worries about much of anything, has expressed concern over this issue.</p>
<p>I know lots of kids at Berkeley and quite a few at UCLA. The one’s that graduated HS with my D all finished college in 4 yrs. Same with the kids at UCSD and UCSB.
For many of the kids I know who end up at Berkeley it is the best price for the quality of education. The son of a friend of mine had some good merit aid from a couple of Oregon private colleges and a couple of midwest schools. We can debate the quality of education at a huge state university versus a small liberal arts college but when it comes down to it many Ca top students will pick the well known name of Cal or UCLA.
I also know quite a number of parents who are not willing to pay even 20,000 or 30,000 after merit aid for a private school. I have one good friend who told her kids if it isn’t Ivy league don’t even ask. She was not willing to pay for a private school when she had the UC option. Her D graduated from Berkeley and her son from one of the better known ivy schools.</p>
<p>The Cal States do have some wonderful teachers. </p>
<p>But my point was that is unfair compare numbers about graduating ‘on time’ (aka in four years) when 60% of the incoming Frosh require remediation. By definition, such students are already “behind” on the first day of class. And, when it well over half of the incoming Frosh…</p>
<p>re Florida and Arizona having worse budget problems than California</p>
<p>That may be true, but we haven’t seen it in classes D has at ASU as a freshman – last semester she had 3 classes with fewer than 20 kids, one with about 25 kids, and one with 150. This semester she’s got 1 with 10, 2 at 20, 1 at 30, and one with 250. She’s in the honors college, but most of her classes are still on the general campus. Getting into classes hasn’t been a problem except for the honors-specific classes where she’s enrolling at the same time as the other honors kids.</p>
<p>They have eliminated (or in process of eliminating) some majors, but from what I’ve seen they were pretty esoteric. Some other departments were combined or consolidated on a single campus, but again this seemed to affect some low enrollment majors.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how they’re managing given the financial challenges they’re facing, but somehow kids are getting the classes they want and need even though the UC campuses charge substantially more than ASU does.</p>
<p>mdcissp:
The cost of roughly 20K-30K for the particular UCs includes the housing/food which is actually more expensive than tuition. Some students mitigate this by commuting to their local UC. Others mitigate it by living off-campus where they can usually live less expensively. It also includes some ‘personal’ expenses that the student would likely have (if at all) regardless of where they go to college or live. The tuition cost is more like 10K-11K. That’s typically 20K or so less than the higher end privates. The CSUs are less expensive than the UCs where the tuition is closer to $2500. I consider both of them relative bargains although it’s still ‘real money’ of course. </p>
<p>I doubt that many applicants who are accepted in-state at top publics like UCB, UCLA, UCSD would be enticed to go OOS to another public U even if it was somewhat less expensive unless that public U had some specialized program or some other criteria they wanted.</p>
<p>Regarding many UCB/UCLA students being offered merit or need based aid at some privates - yes, in many cases they can and it can bring the cost of the privates in line or even lower than the in-state costs for the UCs. A fair number would be offered full rides at some privates. However, they then need to decide whether they prefer that private to UCB/UCLA. Many would rather attend UCB/UCLA than, for example, a private ranked much lower than these UCs. OTOH they might find an Ivy, for example, to be less expensive than a top UC due to more generous need-based aid if they qualify. It pays for these students to ‘shop around’ and apply to a variety of colleges if they’re interested in them to see what results. </p>
<p>Regarding Az colleges, etc., many of them have similar issues to the California state colleges. I read an article about ASU and many of the major cuts and realignments they’re making due to budget problems. </p>
<p>Again, how these budget issues translate into the student experience can vary a lot depending on individual circumstances as anecdotaly evidenced by arabrab’s comments.</p>
<p>HGFM:
I do think there’s a general difference between the UCs and the CSUs (keyword: general) in a few ways regarding this discussion -
The average student entering UCLA/UCSD/UCB is likely to have more AP credits, require no remedial courses, and generally have a proven track record of high success. I’m saying this primarily on the admission stats of the incoming students - we’re talking about the top students in the state (and elsewhere) who are the ones offered admission to these colleges. There are some exceptions of course, where people might turn down UCB for a CSU but I think it’s unusual.
I’ve heard that generally classes are more available for the students at the UCs than at some CSUs. I think some CSUs, SDSU for example, have a history of students having difficulty getting into classes and this is before the current budget woes. I think it was the result of admitting too many students which they’ve worked on correcting. I think they may have been more severely hit by the budget than the UCs.
Many of the CSUs have a high percentage of commuter students. Many of the commuter students arrange their schedules so they only go to campus a few days a week. Taking the lighter load translates into a longer timeframe to completion but it’s a practical limitation for many of them.
The point I made about students staying longer due to the lower cost applies even more to the CSUs due to the lower cost - especially for commuters. Some of them stay longer ‘because they can’.</p>
<p>I hope things are going well for you up there.</p>
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