UCLA should be to anyone. Many talented young people choose UCLA over IVY schools when they have multiple admissions.
A pretty decent amount of kids from kids’ school get in to Berkeley. Their weighted 10/11 GPA’s are not astronomically high because the vast majority of kids have to take 2 years of unweighted math, science, foreign language and English before they even have weighted options. Languages years 1-3 for example, are not weighted nor is math below pre-calc.
There’s also plenty of kids from private schools that don’t offer AP classes at all.
It’s ok.
Average unweighted GPA at UCB is around 3.88 so those kids are even getting a few B’s!
@VickiSoCal Thanks. It didn’t occur to me because D’s English, History and Spanish courses are marked Honors. I should study the UC A-G more.
@SculputorDad: At my son’s HS, the only UC approved Honors classes were Honors Pre-Calc and Honors Chemistry (SoCal Resident). Although Honors English/Biology/Spanish and French were listed as Honors, they were not UC approved. Like @VickiSoCal stated there are plenty of applicants that have no AP/IB or Honor’s courses available at their HS.
The best thing your D can do is submit the best possible application and hope for the best.
Look up one of your local high schools here:
https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?f=
Look at their classes. If Honors type box has AP or Honors it is weighted, if not, it is not. So at my kids’ school for example, Language Arts 2H, is blank, not weighted. All our honors/IB/AP track kids are in that unweighted class as sophomores. No exceptions.
@SculptorDad - Ordinarily I would completely ignore these kind of posts from a parent of a rising 9th grader. But you seem like a nice guy and you & your daughter’s case is a very unusual one so against my usual better judgment I’ll offer my two cents -
- Given your daughter’s artistic focus, I am quite surprised that she (you) is asking about CS or Engineering. When the time comes, if CS is truly what she wants to major in and she shows real talent, then being a talented CS girl will be a positive factor in her favor at most schools. If she has strong grades, etc. then there are lots of great schools that would be happy to admit her. I would also look into other California public options in addition to private options and UCB / UCLA.
Unfortunately, CS at UCB / UCLA isn’t “typical”. I looked into EECS at UCB because my nephew applied there last year. I’m sure you know that UCB has one of the top programs in CS, and admissions is extremely difficult. I do not think there are any official statistics available, but my best guess is that the overall admit rate is 5-7%. As you said, she is Asian, but she is also an in-state girl, so maybe the overall odds are 15% for this slice of the pool?
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Engineering at most schools will be more “stats” driven than for L&S. My impression is that if she applies to EECS at UCB as a boarding school Asian female then she will need tip-top stats and they will look for a very rigorous course load. But they will also want to see an “extra”. A lot of students will have done a serious CS project or something similar to show their passion for the field outside the classroom.
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I don’t know your daughter’s school at all, but given how bright your daughter seems to be I have no idea why she would take “regular” calculus instead of Calculus AB (when the time comes). Of course, there are a dozen different math systems out there, but at most schools regular calculus (if it’s even offered) is a lighter version than AB, and AB itself is a lighter version than BC. In most places in the country the top math students (who are the sorts the EECS department tries to admit) go from pre-calculus right to BC calculus.
Same thing with AP CS Principles. This is a new course and my kids didn’t take it, but my impression is that it is designed as a broad introduction to the field before the students do “real” programming in AP CS A. I suspect it will be a “lighter” class than AP CS A (which itself is a lighter class than the old AP CS AB) since it is designed to encourage a broader pool of students to get into CS (and to make $$$ for the college board). Not sure why there needs to be a “pre” class unless your daughter lived in the Amazon and never touched a computer before. However, I am not as clear about this as I am about regular calculus vs. AB Calculus, so I would research this.
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I am not encouraging you to rush your daughter any faster than she can comfortably go or to rush things for the sake of rushing them, but the calculus advice I’m giving is pretty standard stuff for the top students at a “good” competitive public high school. Since you’re a boarding school parent I do not think the admissions people will cut your daughter much slack compared to someone who’s going to a low SES high school.
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A lot of CS students apply to the general L&S pool at UCB instead of EECS. Much easier to get admitted that way. The problem with this is that they need to get a 3.3 GPA in several CS classes at UCB in order to be able to declare a CS major, which is not certain, doesn’t come with a guarantee of getting into the CS classes they try to register for, and can put them into a cut-throat situation starting on day 1. I told my nephew that it was better to take his chances upfront and apply direct to EECS, but his circumstances were very different since he was an OOS student and financial aid was not a concern for his family.
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It sounds like your rising 9th grade daughter is your oldest. Please take some advice from a parent of older kids. It may seem like applying to colleges is right around the corner and you should plan plan plan, but it is very early to know what kind of schools your daughter should be aiming at. The rigor ramps up quite a bit as kids enter high school and you don’t know what kind of student she will be (I’m sure that sounds crazy to you but trust me). I know she’s been taking classes at the local community college but there are community colleges and there are community colleges. The pool of college students she is used to being with may be quite a bit weaker than the 9th graders she will be with next year at boarding school. At the top boarding schools, many of the students are very bright.
@al2simon. Thank you for the advise. I will read it several more times and save it somewhere. 
I will clarify a few points just fyi.
- She has recently expanded her interest to many areas outside of arts. Psychology, Sociology, CS and now Economics. Look this email to her counselor;
[QUOTE=""]
… I heard of AP computer science principles, and I would like to take that next year, instead of computer science now. Could I change computer science to AP Microeconomics? I’ve been following the elections and I’d love to learn more about how economics affect them as well as learning about economics in general…
[/QUOTE]
At the end she got AP Micro, as well as AP ES which the school recommended first on her schedule.
She is lucky to have a backup plan which is transferring to UC. Whether or not they were good quality, she has enough transfer credit with near perfect GPA from California CC. If all fails. She can take major prereq courses for a year at a CC, and she will have very high chance of junior transferring to one of top 3~4 UC campuses. This allows her to take some reasonable risk, such as applying to EECS instead of L&S at UCB, if the chance is meaningful.
- The curriculum says that regular calculus is prereq for AP Calculus AB at her school. We will see what the school says next year. Same for AP CSP. Except AP CSP will be the school’s new course next year. So it might turn out to be without prereq after all.
Thanks again for your advises.
Way to early to worry about this now.
But, for a student approaching senior year of high school and applying to UCB, the choice of major to apply to should mainly be dependent on what major the student wants to study. Oversubscribed majors like EECS are more selective for frosh admission, but are also very difficult to get into if one tries to change into them after enrolling in some other major or division.
UCB does have CS in L&S as well as EECS. L&S is not as difficult for frosh admission, but all L&S frosh enter undeclared; L&S CS is at capacity, so students need to earn a 3.3 college GPA in the prerequisites to declare the major (GPA threshold may change in the future).
She is unusual enough in many ways (e.g. college courses taken while in middle school) that one more or fewer AP course taken in high school is unlikely to be what tips the admission decision one way or another.
If she is good enough in math to be in precalculus in 9th grade, shouldn’t she take calculus BC next?
Also, AP CS principles is supposed to be a first course for students who have no CS experience or knowledge, so I do not see why there is need to take some other CS course first. If there is any possible interest in majoring in CS in college, it is best to try to take AP CS principles in 11th grade or earlier, so that the student can see if CS is truly of interest.
This makes no sense. Why would a supposedly academically elite boarding school take two years (“regular calculus” followed by calculus AB) to cover what is ordinarily one semester of calculus in college?
@ucbalumnus , Thanks for the advise. I will keep them in mind. Neither I nor she sees no reason to rush to Calc BC even if she could and the school lets her. She has other interests in both academics and none-academics. I think PreCalc - (Calc or Calc AB) - Calc BC - Stat a perfect and challenging enough plan. It’s better take them slow and make sure she gets 5 on AP Calc BC exam to avoid freshman calc courses at college. I heard they are very bad for ug gpa, especially at ucb.
The school is still designing the first AP CSP course for 2017. It might offer it without prereq after all. We will wait and see. If it doesn’t, she can try to waiver the prereq. I have introduced her some basic programming - Logo, Scratch and Python. She likes them enough to want to major CS. And as I know CS is a great ug major for not only engineering but also for law and business.
The math - CS major at UCSD requires more math courses and fewer CS courses than the CS major:
https://math.ucsd.edu/programs/undergraduate/bs_math_comp_science.php
http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/BSCS
The math major at UCSD has become in impacted major, probably because the CS rejects are crowding into it. CS at UCSD is so competitive now that trying to change into it if not admitted directly as frosh requires a 3.9 or 4.0 college GPA.
http://cse.ucsd.edu/CappedMajor
https://math.ucsd.edu/programs/undergraduate/Entry_to_the_Math_Majors.pdf
When I was in high school, a student in precalculus in 10th grade or earlier was generally seen as a top student in math who would find all math courses (including precalculus and calculus BC immediately after precalculus) to be “easy A” courses (and easy 5 on the AP exam). So it seems odd to me why she would need to take it slow.
Note that high school statistics (AP or otherwise) is usually a less rigorous course, often promoted to students who need another math course but do not want to take precalculus or calculus. However, if calculus-based statistics is offered, it may be more worthwhile for a student who has completed calculus, since some statistics concepts are better understood when calculus is allowed to be used to explain them.
@ucbalumnus
Let me explain; Early in her age, she was good at understanding concepts and problem solving, but not with number sense or speedy arithmetic. As she was homeschooled, I decided to customize her math education. I taught concepts of algebra early on, but minimized practices as I figured out that her brain will be more ready for it later on, while squeezing more time for her time consuming arts. I also spent more time on numberless problem solving and deductive reasoning than traditional math, hoping that they will help her to become a better thinker.
As a result, she knew enough math to pass her college’s placement exam to waive Algebra II from Physics prereq, but still not enough to score 90% on SSAT exam last year. Many high schools we interviewed recommended her starting with Geometry or Algebra II, so I didn’t worry.
But this high school that accepted her and she is entering recommended her to start with preCalc (Trigonometry). And now she has good number sense and mental math ability. So we accepted it and she has been methodically reviewing Geometry and Algebra II with Aleks.com She has nearly finished reviewing them and I don’t doubt that she can ace her Trigonometry. (or high 90s on SSAT test if she takes it again)
But she still significantly lacks arithmetic practices that other kids have practiced day after day for years and years. She makes mistakes and sometimes gets stuck. Beside, she was never really good with math as some other kids we know, who are probably more like those you describe.
Therefore, I am confident that she will ace the math courses, but not easily. Hence taking it slow. I don’t know. We will see what daily lectures and practices at her coming school will do after a year. In truth I don’t know how challenging her math classes will be and rather be careful than sorry. That was my logic on taking it slow.
D accepted to UCB EECS in 2014 with 4.2 weighted (6 semesters of honors/ib) and 4.0 uw. Ranked 2/200. 6 semesters was max she could work into her schedule. IB curriculum (no APs) but D was not full IB diploma candidiate. No hooks. Typical ECs but an artsy flair. Also accepted to UCLA EE. No computer science experience. Took basic bio and physics and advanced chem and math.
S accepted to UCB in 2016 L & S 4.31 (8 semesters of honors/ib/max he could work in) and 4.0 uw. Not full IB diploma. Top 10% (not sure of exact rank). Decided to attend UCLA. No hooks. Typical ECs and sporty. Took advanced math and bio. Basic physics and chem.
Both Instate.
@svlab112
Congratulation. And thanks for sharing. I am glad that it is more holistic and not just number games. (not for weighted gpa anyway)
@SculptorDad Thank you. Beyond holistic review, I believe my kids are examples of a review within the context of what was available to them. They attended a smaller Silicon Valley public high school, US N&WR Silver Medal School. They were solid, high achieving students within their school. Their friends at other schools, where an abundance of APs were available, boasted much higher GPAs and were subsequently reviewed within their context and peer group. This is where the school profile plays a part in the process. I should add both scored 33 on ACT, took two subjects tests each–Math II and a Science scoring 750+ on each. D was a UCB regents candidate but was ultimately not awarded the scholarship.
Don’t know if you have seen these 2015 data for Berkeley.
“For the EECS side, 1258 females and 5353 males applied. 125 females and 416 males were accepted. 39 females SIRed, and 215 males SIRed. This translates to a 9.94% acceptance rate for females, and 7.77% acceptance rate for males. Also, 31.20% yield rate for females, and 51.68% yield rate for males. The end ratio is 1.66 males to 1 female.
In 2015, 727 females and 1805 males applied to L&S, marking their majors as CS. 236 of the females were admitted, 136 of which SIRed. For the males, 452 were accepted, and 308 SIRed. This translates to a 32.46% acceptance rate for females, and a 25.04% acceptance rate for males. Also, 57.63% yield for females and 68.14% yield for males. The end ratio (actually attending students) is 1.18 males to 1 female.”
@StevenToCollege - That’s really helpful data. Would you mind sharing the link to the original data? Unfortunately, it looks like some of the numbers are wrong.
For example, I do not think 1.66 males to 1 female could be right. On the EECS side, wouldn’t the ratio of SIRs be 215/39 = 5.5 males to 1 female? On the L&S, it looks like 2.26 males to 1 female.
I am surpised that the admittance rate for EECS females is so low. Also curious about in-state versus OOS. My bet is that the EECS department is so strong that the faculty can exert pressure to force the admissions office to admit the best students from the whole country into the department, so the % of OOS is quite a bit higher than for the rest of the university.
Thank you @StevenToCollege It gives a very good idea comparing odds between them!
Yeah, I think some of the numbers might be off based on what I sent out earlier.
Somebody on the site tried to put the following link into words, and hence the error.
http://rkwan.me/blog/ucb-eecs-lscs-admissions#basic-admissions-statistics
Correction: I think the original poster pulled the 2015 data out of the Berkeley internal website, and therefore, the link does not include the 2015 data.