UChicago Chances Test Optional

Objective:
SAT: Not Sending
GPA: 3.81 UW (school doesn’t weight gpa)
Rank: N/A
AP: Biology (4), statistics, US History, Chemistry. Lots of Dual Enrollment
Senior Year Course Load: Precalculus (Dual Enrollment), Interpersonal Relationships, Spanish 4 (Dual Enrollment), Ethnic Literature Advanced, Personal Financial Responsibility, AP Chem, Anatomy and Physiology, English 12 (Dual Enrollment), Phycology, Sociology.
Major Awards: AB Honor Roll (9-11th), Honor roll with distinction (11th).

Subjective:
Extracurriculars: National Honors Society (11th-present),
Spanish Quiz Bowl (9-12th),
Ecology Club (12th),
Human Science Club (Founder/President)(11th-present).
Bring Change to Mind (President)(12th).
Job/Work Experience: Walmart Associate (11th-present) 18-20 hrs/week.
Summer activities: Summer school online courses, Work

State: Indiana
Intended Major: Biology
School Type: Public
Ethnicity: Hispanic
Gender: Male
Income bracket: $68,000
Hooks: URM, First-Generation College Student

You are the type of person who UChicago is looking to have apply test optional. Whether you get in or not is not really discernible, but I think you have a shot.

Dual-enrollment should help, depending on the level of rigor (these are college courses, correct?). Are you applying ED1 or EA?

Yes, my dual enrollment are college classes. I might apply ED 2. I’ll decide after my visit in November.

OP Good luck and keep us posted!

IMHO, you will have a better chance if you apply ED1. You do not apply UofC if you are not fully committed, based on your stats.

^ @artloversplus, they probably do admit more ED1’s than ED2’s. A lot will also depend on size and quality of the respective pool. But ED2 is as much a binding commitment as is ED1. A lot just depends on your application strategy, whether applying to an SCEA first, etc.

@artloversplus , I already made the decision to apply early decision 2. I have a fee waiver also, so I just want to apply and see what happens.

And also, I have a 690 Bio M score. Should I send that?

A 690 in Bio (m) is only 55th percentile which seems “meh” compared to that 4 in AP Bio. These two exams probably test for different things, but I’d tend to view the AP score as making a stronger case for your abilities in science than the subject score.

a 690 is fine for a URM; I’d send it.

^ I’d be careful not to fall into casual reasoning of that sort. There is no special “URM standard” at UChicago. While plenty of kids will submit subject test results (including a good number in the mid-to-upper 700’s), UChicago doesn’t require subject scores; they are completely optional:

“Students may also elect to submit results of AP exams, SAT-II subject tests, predicted IB or A-Level scores on an optional and self-reported basis.”

To me that reads “submit if you think it helps your application.” Perhaps if OP wanted to major in Art History or English but show some science proficiency it makes sense to submit. But OP already demonstrates that proficiency with a solid score on the Bio AP test. And if OP’s application reads “wanna do Bio” then the 690 could actually hurt.

IMO.

The reason I propose ED1 is that you have a better chance to be admitted, based on your stats and URM status. Nothing against ED2, but the admit rate is lower.

FWIW, your bio score is nothing to write home about, perhaps it is lower than most admitted students. I am speaking as a parent of a past bio graduate from UofC. You might not have a chance to survive in their Bio5 series of classes, but you only got 4 in your AP, not qualified for Bio5.

^ The Advanced Bio Sequence is open to anyone scoring a 4 or 5 on the AP Test, and OP doesn’t even need to opt for that track:

  1. Advanced Biology sequence—open to students who have achieved a score of 4 or 5 on the AP Biology test:

BIOS 20234 Molecular Biology of the Cell 100 units
BIOS 20235 Biological Systems 100 units
BIOS 20236 Biological Dynamics 100 units
BIOS 20242 Principles of Physiology 100 units
BIOS 20200 Introduction to Biochemistry 100 units

Should OP choose one of the other two tracks available - 1. Molecules to Organisms OR 2. Life/Ecosystem/Evolution - OP will be able to use the 4 on AP Bio to wave part of the Bio Gen Ed requirement. Should OP opt for the Advanced Track listed above, OP will get the entire Gen. Ed. bio sequence waived due to the 4 on AP Bio.

http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/biologicalsciences/

Finaly should OP opt for another major, the 4 on AP Bio will allow OP to waive part of the Bio Gen Ed requirement.

In short, the 4 on AP Bio sets up OP quite nicely at UChicago, should OP be admitted.

Also, @artloversplus you are speaking w/o facts re: ED1 vs. ED2. UChicago hasn’t disclosed any of those particular admit rates. What we do know from last year is that they admitted about 7% of 15,000 early applicants (both ED1 and EA) and about 6% of 34,600 applications total. We can “guess” that very few earlies made it through the regular round (since Dean Nondorf has mentioned that in the past), so maybe about 5% of nearly 20,000 ED2/RD candidates were admitted in Feb. and March. However, how that breaks down is anyone’s guess. Same with the 7% early rate - we don’t know how many applied ED1 or EA, nor do we know how many of each pool were actually admitted.

Finally, admit rates are “paper chances” - they don’t necessarily translate into real odds. Paper chances increase and decrease with the popularity of the institution, but that won’t change the odds for those who are the best - or worst - fits. Maybe it’ll change the odds of those in the middle. Who knows. Most likely, if someone applies focusing on maximizing admission chances through the admit rate and not letting UChicago learn all about them and why they want to be there, they probably won’t get in.

@JBStillFlying

I disagree.

From about 10 years ago, there was only EA and EA admit rate is always higher than RD. Then they started ED and ED rate is higher than EA and RD. Now they have ED1 and ED2, I think they want to play a low key on the admit rate of ED1 so they mixed the admit rate of both ED1 and ED2, you have no evidence of what admit rate on ED1, so, how you can say ED1 and ED2 are treated equally? If they are, why they created those categories?

Yes, I do agree that you have different tracks of Bio department, but I was just referring to OP’s academic performance vs average admitted Bio department students. Since D was a graduate of Bio department, I have a lot of contacts with her cohorts, based on my knowledge, with OP’s current academic performance, if admitted, she will be in the lower quadrant of the bio class. While OP still might be successful in the department, it will be an uphill struggle. Of course, you do not have to have AP5 and high subject scores to be in the department, but it is not a matter of survival, it is a race to the top. In the bio job market, only top quadrant students will get the fruit, plenty of bio graduates went on to be Sales in a mall or a waiter in a restaurant. One of the kids who graduated from UCLA I know did just that for 5 years until she got admitted to a dental school while her classmate, who I also know, has already started her dentist carrier.

“From about 10 years ago, there was only EA and EA admit rate is always higher than RD. Then they started ED and ED rate is higher than EA and RD. Now they have ED1 and ED2, I think they want to play a low key on the admit rate of ED1 so they mixed the admit rate of both ED1 and ED2, you have no evidence of what admit rate on ED1, so, how you can say ED1 and ED2 are treated equally? If they are, why they created those categories?”

  • So, let's start by getting the sequence of events correct:

For years, UChicago offered EA and RD. RD was “technically” a lower admit rate than EA because they deferred a whole lot of the latter and put them in the regular pool. Don’t recall reading much from CC parents about how many tended to be deferred or how many of those were subsequently accepted. It’s quite possible, for example, that a new RD app. had a better admit rate than a deferred EA. But we don’t know. UChicago never published that information. Then, for the 2016-17 application cycle UChicago - without fanfare or indeed even an announcement - changed the application options to ED1, EA, ED2, and RD. So ED1 and ED2 were introduced TOGETHER.

Now, there is little doubt that UChicago’s ED admission has a better admit rate than EA/RD. ED is a binding plan, and for most universities binding admission will attract smaller pools than non-binding admission. Keep in mind, however, that UChicago’s early admit pool never shrank by introducing ED1. It remained at about 13K for two years, and then last year it jumped to 15K, assuming the WaPo reporting is correct. Given that the overall early admit rate was 7%, and keeping the mix of admits at 2/3 ED1 and 1/3 EA (like it was for the first year of the new plans), that means that the ED1 applicant pool would need to be 10K strong in order for the two admit rates to be equal! That seems a tad high, even for UChicago. Therefore, it’s likelier that the ED1 pool was smaller than 10K, and the admit rate above 7%. My own guess is that we are looking at 10% ED1 and about 5% for EA. But it’s just a guess.

You are correct that I have no current evidence on ED1 vs. ED2 admit rates. However, they are both BINDING PLANS. ED1 is offered for the early pool, and ED2 for the regular. And there’s a terrific reason why they created ED2: many top kids who apply in the regular round to UChicago applied SCEA elsewhere first. If they were deferred, ED2 allows them a follow-up chance at another top school that they would love to attend. That’s how my S19 (currently a first year) was admitted. And, for the first couple of years at least, ED2 also scooped up some EA-deferreds who switched to binding in the regular round. That’s how my D (currently a 3rd year) was admitted. There was some evidence last year to suggest that particular “back door” wasn’t available as much - perhaps the ED2 pool was super strong.

They don’t have much concern at all about “mixing” the admit rate of ED1 and ED2 up. They are attracting different applicants and pools might vary significantly from year to year in both numbers and quality. ED1 is for those early applicants who have a clear #1 preference for UChicago over and above other schools. ED2 is for those who aren’t planning to apply to UChicago early but have a clear preference for UChicago over other schools by the time they do apply. UChicago admits approximately half its total class early (ED1/EA), and the other half regular (ED2/RD). As mentioned upthread, how that breaks down now between ED and non-ED is anyone’s guess. Depending on size of pool and number of admits in each, the ED2 admit rate can be higher, lower or equal to ED1.

Finally, they don’t play “low key” on ED1. They make it pretty clear how they view ED vs. non-binding.

“In the bio job market, only top quadrant students will get the fruit, plenty of bio graduates went on to be Sales in a mall or a waiter in a restaurant.”

-Well, not sure how it was 10 years ago (2009? - Great Recession?) but the career placement stats tend to be a bit better than that now. OP never disclosed long-term plans (pre-med? research? something else?) so we probably can’t speculate on specific outcomes. Suffice it to say that UChicago undergrads shouldn’t have too much to worry about in terms of internships and professional outcomes. OP, if accepted, might even qualify for an Odyssey Scholarship and that will come with its own level of professional mentoring.

Historically, the job market for bio UG graduates are mostly falling into the following categories:

  1. MD, DO, Dentist or PA the like
  2. Post Graduate studies
  3. Non-bio related jobs
  4. Gap Year(s) to be admitted into Medical/Dental School
  5. Direct hire into bio-related jobs

This has been discussed extensively in the Pre-med forum and I have contributed a number of discussions.

Vast Majority of the UG bio graduates have been entered into Categories 2 and 4. You need top grades to get into category 1 immediately upon graduation. UofC medical school takes in approximately 2 students each class in its “Early Acceptance” program. Very few, if any, will be fortunate enough to be directly hired into bio-related jobs. Even if they do, their advancement prospects are limited unless they go to graduate school later. I used to work for a Fortune 100 health care company, our bio-related jobs minimum requirement is a Ph.D. This has not been changed from 40 years ago to date.

My nice, who has a BS Bio from MIT, got a job in a non-bio related field. Who made me wonder why she busts her XXX at MIT and got into a field where she can go to a cheaper, less intense school with a business degree.

^ Well, I think @artloversplus’s real issue can be summarized with the last question: “Who made me wonder why she busts her XXX at MIT and got into a field where she can go to a cheaper, less intense school with a business degree.”

Why indeed.

My own kids are doomed, as they are actually majoring in things that interest them instead of looking for the cheapest way to score a salary. They figure that a UChicago education will prepare them for interesting and engaging work down the road. How naive of them.

More substantively, I take some issue with the facts presented in this post above, albeit while respecting the viewpoint of an expert. I personally knew several “subpar” bio/premed majors within the 40 year timespan mentioned who WERE able to move onto fulfilling and rewarding “bio related jobs.” One went on to get her master’s in a bio-related field at some point (with the support of her employer Genentech). Others went on to business or law school because that’s the direction their professional interests took over time, but used their interest in biology to work in applicable industries.

Fortunately for hopefuls entering UChicago, they can connect with the Office of Career Advancement as soon as they walk onto campus. UChicago Careers in Health, among other Careers-In functions, can help sort out any questions or help forge a doable career path. UChicago has totally beefed up its career placement in recent years, and it’s among the top reasons why top kids are willing to matriculate there.

It’s not necessary to write off someone’s prospective interests before they’ve even graduated from high school. In fact, it’s rather presumptuous.

@JBStillFlying I had my visit today and OMG it’s BEAUTIFUL! I’m full steam ahead for ED II. I just got a superscore of 27 ACT. Should I still go test optional? I’ll submit my 4 on AP Bio and I won’t submit the 690 SAT 2 Bio M score.

ED shows commitment and TO allows you to present your strongest application. Good luck to you! Keep us posted!!