My daughter was accepted to UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, Cornell, Duke, and Vanderbilt among others. She wants to go to UChicago; she loves the campus, the city, and also got a generous merit scholarship. Is it too crazy to say no to 3 Ivies? She wants to major in Econ and PoliSci.
Congrats on these fantastic choices especially the first three you list. Uchicago is a great decision, especially in economics. I would do Penn over Chicago only for Wharton undergrad… Columbia and UChicago are absolute peers in every sense. But Chicago is stronger in economics and business and has great pre bus.opportunities, If she prefers the vibe at Chicago, go for it.
Not crazy, at least wrt those 3 Ivies given her areas of interest. And she’ll be turning down at least two Ivies regardless of what choice she makes.
Thanks!
Not crazy at all. Depending on a particular student’s interests and preferences, he or she could rank five of those six colleges in pretty much any order, and it would be perfectly rational. (Vanderbilt is my sixth, but it isn’t far behind at all.) For me, personally, and for at least one of my children, Chicago was the clear #1 of that group. My other child would have preferred Columbia at the time, but in retrospect is very happy she was not admitted there and went to Chicago instead. She has been working in NYC for the past 8 years, by the way, and feels that she gets the benefit all the time of having her undergraduate degree acknowledged as impressive and prestigious. She certainly hasn’t suffered for not having gone to Columbia or Penn.
In terms of economics or political science, Chicago probably has the best academic standing of the group. That’s a little bit of a mixed blessing – those departments are very crowded and very competitive at Chicago. One thing of which your daughter may want to be aware is that Chicago is extremely math-y, much more so I think than any of the other colleges you mention. The most ambitious economics students there take a lot of advanced math, and political science students take more math than they would almost anywhere else besides MIT or Caltech. It’s possible to make your way through economics or poli sci at Chicago without a huge amount of math, but even the low-math options at Chicago involve more math than the equivalent low-math options at the other colleges.
So if she likes math, and likes being around other people who likes math, Chicago could be a paradise. If she doesn’t really like math, she may prefer going elsewhere, and if she goes to Chicago she may very well end up majoring in something other than economics.
(I should add that one of my kids hated math – but came to respect it – and the other loved math – but learned he was not that good at it – and they both loved Chicago. However, neither ever wanted to major in economics.)
@Cariño Penn, Columbia and Chicago are peers. Chicago has the best economics department, Penn has the edge for business recruiting, Columbia has the edge in terms of location which leads to great internships opportunities throughout the year.
Contrary to what @Chrchill is saying there are many people who go for Penn over Chicago for other things than Wharton (for wharton specifically it is a no-brainer that you will choose Penn over any non-HYPSM school).
The consideration is mainly down to fit. She seems like she fits best at Chicago so that is what she should choose.
If you are sure you want an undergrad business degree, you take Wharton over HYPSM as well. One important point: Columbia is deeper and much more highly regarded than UChicago in international affairs. UChicago has the edge in political theory and quantitative policy analysis. .
@JHS Thank you so much for your knowledgeable advice My daughter is very good at math. She is doing Multivariable Calc in her senior year (after doing Calc AB and BC as a sophomore and junior, respectively), and she also did Macroeconomics and Microeconomics AP and Econ Seminar, which she really loved. After your comment now I have more reasons to think that UChicago is the right fit for her.
This is personal opinion… take it with a pinch of salt (or sugar)
Cant go wrong with Econ undergrad at Penn or UChicago. This is undergrad, not grad school so there is only so much that would distinguish overall quality between these schools.
But on the margins - Chicago would be the choice for PhD post-undergrad; Penn for industry/business post undergrad… BUT if she does this, she might as well do a real business undergrad at Wharton. One consideration too is (This is an open secret but) in the past Whartonites looked down on other Penn undergrads who want to work in “business” post undergrad but “could not get into Wharton”. Not sure if that kind of thing still exists. In contrast, Econ Majors at UChicago have an implied “pedigree” because the department is powerful compared to other departments (not because the student is better)
Overall while UChicago is known as a gleaming tower of market economics and all that that implies, this is undergrad we are talking about, so a Penn undergrad would learn the theory as well (although perhaps not as passionately evoked) from a Penn professor. A UChicago professor likewise will cover all the other strains of economics.
While personally I think Columbia cant compete with UChicago or Wharton on Econ or business, respectively… for someone who is “undecided” between business and economics, Columbia is a good option. It has the best name recall among Penn/UChicago/Columbia (primarily since both Penn and UChicago kinda have community school sounding names to the uninitiated). And if there is a chance that she cant hack Econ (its tough) then Columbia offers more “acceptable” fall back options because the quality of its schools/departments/colleges are more even compared to the other two (Columbia college looking down on Barnard, Fu Foundation, GS, etc notwithstanding.)
Wharton would give her a very different undergraduate education (and cohort) than UChicago. Faced with a similar choice years ago (Wharton/BFS vs Harvard), I decided I didn’t want to narrow my field of vision so early and I’ve always been really glad I made that call. FWIW, I started out in Econ (thinking I wanted a JD/MBA) and ended up with a PhD in Politics (and much happier than I would have been as a lawyer or an MBA). HMMV, but I think it’s a question worth considering.
@FStratford I do not agree about name recall. In fact, the NY market is overflowing with Columbia grads from the college and the lesser respected school of general studies. Employers and all who matter know that UChicago and Penn are nor community schools In key East coast markets UChicago is more rarely seen and has an exoticism factor combined with a reputation for very high caliber and hard work. UChicago has the same or better fall back options than Columbia. Moreover, Columbia Bus School has been slipping and is now barely top 10. Chicago Booth is second or third and going stronger. This has a trickle down effect on undergrads. UChicago also has a great career in Bus,. Program. The one thing we all agree on is that if she can get into Wharton and knows for sure that she wants a pre-=professional school, that’s the place to be. I wopuld therefore say. 1. Wharton, @. Uchicago, and 3. Columbia.
One thing I heard informally is that the top schools don’t really have a high percentage of undergrad. women doing Econ. UChicago has about a third and, from what I hear, that might be on the high side compared to other places (although we didn’t ask about specific other schools). Does anyone have more info. on this?
@Chrchill Okay you got me convinced.
I was thinking that Columbia has a breadth - Journalism, Teachers College, Engineering (UChicago has none, Penn’s is a smidge below). Then again, someone who wants to do Econ may not want to do Engineering or be a Journalist or a Teacher… so I take it back
UChicago has more good options that are “adjacent” to Econ - History, Sociology, Political Economy, Public Policy (maybe tied with Penn’s Annenberg) and even CWIB (but Wharton would be better for business), Math…
Penn probably has edge in non-profit, marketing, business as “econ-adjacent” options.