@thedidactic, most California (not Cali-we hate that term) kids try to go to UC schools because they are good and if you are a resident and need financial aid, they are very good deals for RESIDENTS.
The California kids do have some nice choices and do usually go away in-state. @Purple Titan is correct in stating that our states are so big that you can go from one end of the state to the other and be in completely different geographical landscapes.
In terms of prestige, UCLA is certainly not worth the OOS tuition relative to Rutgers, especially its honors program. If it is between Rutgers and an ivy, then it is worth a deliberation.
TCNJ vs Rutgers seems to come up very often. As a prof in the NJ state college sytem (not at TCNJ), I can state that they are very different types of universities. Rutgers is a national university - and its USNWR ranking will be among the other nationally ranked universities. It is a research institution with strong PhD programs and part of the prestigious Association of American Universities (www.aau.edu).
TCNJ started out as Trenton State College, part of the NJ state college system, comparable to “directional” universities elsewhere. It is still part of the state college system, is primarily a teaching university, and its ranking in USNWR is within the Regional section. Although it’s considered somewhat of a hot commodity in NJ, it is not well known outside the region.
You may have smaller classes and more attention at TCNJ. Most likely, though the profs do some research, it’s not at the level of Rutgers or other R1 universities. Rutgers Engineering is highly regarded. Their SAT score distribution is quite different from the overall distribution of RUtgers, and you will find 25-75 Percentila for Engineering at Rutgers is possibly above that of TCNJ.
In short, comparing the two in terms of the academics offered is comparing apples to oranges. They are different institutions altogether and it should really depend on what is an important fit for the student.
What are your SAT scores/GPA? Rutgers/TCNJ may be even cheaper with scholarships.
@mathprof63 TCNJ’s remake, Rowan’s and Stockton’s as well, has done a lot for NJ residents.
Rutgers is busting at the seams with little hope of expansion given its location.
TCNJ has been a home run in that it has crafted an excellent and highly appealing school.
It will be interesting when the new STEM center opens in 2017.
@BatesParents2019 I agree with you re: TCNJ, Rowan and Stockton. Also would add Montclair and Ramapo to the list of appealing NJ public state colleges. All have seen a lot of capital improvements in the past years and have reasonable ratings in USNWR regional ratings.
Re: Rutgers - my HS sophomore once went to a meeting held in a Rutgers lecture hall. Walking in, he thought it was some kind of an auditorium. Told him it’s a lecture hall for a large class. He was really taken aback. He wants to look at smaller universities after that experience…
@mathprof63 It may be “apples and oranges” but you write it as someone who prefers apples and sees Rutgers as an apple. Yes, TCNJ was Trenton State, but Rutgers was once Queens College. However the nominal history lesson isn’t particularly relevant to the OP’s inquiry. You are incorrect in stating that TCNJ “is primarily a teaching university”. And your comments regarding the quality of TCNJ prof research and the comparative SAT scores of engineers at each school are by your words mere speculation. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make in comparing USNWR rankings, but the OP is quite capable of deciding whether 3rd regionally is better or worse than 70th nationally. But, again, that’s apples and oranges.
With that in mind, you are correct that the decision depends on the expectations and desires of the student. Certainly there is the large school vs small school dichotomy that factored heavily in the decision of many I know. Rutgers does have an Honor College option for some that helps to narrow the differences for those preferring a smaller learning environment.
I am very fond of both schools and I believe NJ residents are quite fortunate to have either available at in-state tuition rates.
“That same junior could also think Rutgers is great because he can get away from Michigan, be close to NYC and study in a new environment.”
Highly unlikely.
I’m not sure if this quote is meant to denigrate Rutgers or if the UM advocate who made it feels he needs to scour the web for any possible slight to his true love, but IMHO @TheDidactic made a very reasonable point that people should take into account when considering the state school stigma.
@oldchief78 : not sure how published test score stats can be speculation. - here are the Rutgers Engineering stats for middle 50% entering freshman:
http://admissions.rutgers.edu/academics/admissionsprofile.aspx
Here are the ones for TCNJ from collegedata.com for middle 50%:
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=148
I received both my undergrad and PhD degrees from flagship state universities, so I am possibly biased in that direction. But I don’t think it is necessarily a good fit for everyone (including my kid). I am familiar with the level of research at R1 universities, and in the professional community of math and science academic researchers, caliber and reputation of research professors are not speculation, but backed up by number of NSF grants received, prestige of publications , keynotes at conferences etc.
And I agree that NJ residents have many good options in state universities to choose from now.
@mathprof63 - Apples and oranges again professor. You’re trying to compare Rutgers engineering SATs to the entire admitted student population of TCNJ. That isn’t a valid comparison.
Comparing quantities of units (as you do in your research discussion) will likely favor an institution that’s nearly 10 times larger. Then again, that doesn’t necessarily examine the quality of research. I offer that research done by TCNJ professors is in no way inferior to that done at Rutgers.
I am also skeptical of whether a professor’s research necessarily benefits the students in the classroom. Often professors become so occupied by their research they delegate instruction to a TA to the detriment of the students.
hey mathprof- Apples to apples Forbes top ranking overall small or big doesnt matter.
TCNJ ranks #168 and Rutgers new brunswick ranked #177. And i have heard TCNJ called the flagship on several occasions by top politcal types. so… Just sayin. Also US NEWS has TCNJ as #3 Regional -that is vs many private schools. Hence it is the top public #1 on that list. on a recent Luminosity excercise 90,000 students took part in brain challenges look up the top 50 schools http://business.tcnj.edu/2012/11/14/tcnj-listed-among-the-top-50-smartest-colleges-in-the-us/ . Businessweek ranked the bschool #63 vs Rutgers #118. and #128 for newark. Forbes has TCNJ as best public school in NJ and second only overall to Princeton overall–
The other local schools on the list are: College of New Jersey (ranked No. 168 in the nation), Rutgers University-New Brunswick (177), Stevens Institute of Technology (303), Drew University (329), Seton Hall University (331), New Jersey Institute of Technology (416), Fairleigh Dickinson University-Metropolitan Campus (489), Rowan University (504), Richard Stockton College (509), Montclair State University (514) and Rider University (527).
There’s more like money mag, kiplingers , etc. Not knocking Rutgers just giving TCNJ its full due.
Ehhh…I’d say go with TCNJ on this one. Rutgers isn’t amazing. I’d say my school is equal to, if not better than, Rutgers academically, better student experiences as well.