<p>Here's just one article that popped up on Google, but I recently read a much more detailed article about the ivies that have gotten many top UC profs. I'll try to find it.</p>
<p>The</a> Daily Bruin - UC budget cuts lead to fear of losing top faculty</p>
<p>and this:</p>
<p>hmom5:</p>
<p>From those two articles it looks like the threat of top profs leaving the UCs and other public schools is somewhat complex and likely goes beyond simply a state budget crisis although that's part of the equation. I think a public U getting into a bidding war with the likes of Harvard, Princeton, and Yale would be a tenuous situation given the wealth of the latter. </p>
<p>On the bright side - the profs my Ds have had that have in their minds been 'the best profs' are not the NL profs. It also seems that some number of the profs are quite wealthy in their own right (owning companies, royalties, etc.) and might be less likely to be swayed. For example, some of those profs who own multi-million $$ homes overlooking the ocean in La Jolla might be difficult to lure to NJ or Ma regardless of the financial enticement although I'm sure this is only a subset.</p>
<p>ucsd, while anecdotal evidence is never the best, here's what I know. A close friend and her husband are UCLA profs. For years they have resisted great offers because they loved the school, the weather and have family and friends nearby. They are now actively courting offers and coordinating their exit. They tell me they are in good company.</p>
<p>Their classes just keep getting larger, research dollars getting smaller and facilities are declining. They see private research funds beginning to avoid UCs. These are people who felt a deep commitment to public education. They feel the problems are getting worse and the solution will not be enough.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that both UCSD and UCSB can attract great profs in retirement because they are very attractive places to retire. In fact I've been in active talks with a UC about teaching....</p>
<p>I guess I can't blame these profs for following the money - it's what happens to some extent in every industry. It'd be interesting to have a better idea of the big picture to understand this better. </p>
<p>A lot of people resist moving from areas like San Diego and Santa Barbara - the areas definitely provide some 'value-added' to the salaries of the jobs here.</p>
<p>I really don't see it as following the money. I think profs see it as following the ability to get the most done in their areas. My friends believe with the huge classes and lack of research funds they can't accomplish nearly as much with their students and move their research to the heights they could if well funded. This has been a dilemma for me in choosing to teach as a second career. We'd really like to move back to Socal and commit to public education but the timing is troubling.</p>
<p>I can tell you that all of the UC faculty I have taked with belive OOS students are the answer.</p>
<p>UCI would actually be UC Newport Beach if the Irvine family had not donated the land in exchange for the naming ;) It probably missed a great UCSB type of hook without that, but any one who goes there knows they can live on the beach at Newport quite easily. That being said, it still does not have any downtown type city ambiance and worst of all tends to be very commuter.</p>
<p>Living off campus at Berkeley is meaningless regarding commutes, as the houses all surround the campus and some off campus homes are closer to classrooms than some dorms (Clark Kerr) so it does not feel off campus & commuter, instead it all feels like one big campus.</p>
<p>The good news is there are more good profs out there than slots at Harvard, etc. The top publics will get enough of the good people to continue and even improve. Many of the big names at H did their best work and more teaching before they got to H. Predicting which young PhD's will become the future NAS members is about as hard as picking which high school kids will become great NFL players.</p>
<p>But what about us old would be profs? The UCs are very trade oriented and seek teachers from industry too. Yet Stanford and USC are looking much more promising as teaching destinations, even for those who would love to live in SD or SB.</p>
<p>Harvard, Stanford, Yale, etc... are all in a financial cul-de-sac. The profs at UCs are likely to stay put in the foreseeable future. A budget cut here and there won't drive them away. Hmom5, you really think your friend and her spouse are pulling in multiple offers right now? They must be joking.<br>
Each year, there might be one or two professors poached by HYPSM. But I highly doubt Duke or Emory or Rice can lure a Berkeley or a UCLA prof away. Their graduate students aren't the same caliber as Berkeley or UCLA grads. Profs love nothing more than publishing papers and where can you find indentured servants as capable as the grad students at Berkeley and UCLA?</p>
<p>The top colleges lost some money from endowments--probably just temporarily to a large degree--but have plenty of funds for the profs they want. I know that first hand.</p>
<p>And hate to say it, but far more than a few a year have been poached from UCs in the past decade.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can tell you that all of the UC faculty I have taked with belive OOS students are the answer.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Academics, dontcha just love 'em? Don't they see the irony in thier position? Instead of making new (OOS) kids pay more, why not just make instate kids pay more and be done with it? The money is the same. Instead, they want to 'tax the man behind the tree.'</p>
<p>"Hmom5, you really think your friend and her spouse are pulling in multiple offers right now? They must be joking."
middsmith, fyi-USC is poaching like crazy these days. It is fast becoming known in academic circles as the "University of Stolen Colleagues". And hmom did not say it was a HYPS, D,E or R that was courting their friends. That seems to be your conclusion.</p>
<p>And paying big money to get who they want, menloparkmom.</p>
<p>^^^I know!</p>
<p>Other top schools attempting to raid the UC for faculty is definitely a problem, but it's not like they aren't battling back, such as with this faculty retention intiative:</p>
<p>The article also makes the point that Univ. of Wisconsin also gets heavily raided. And unlike UC, they have a very high OOS rates (only 60% of undergrads at the flagship Madison campus are WI residents vs. 94% undergrad CA residents at UC). So making money selling those OOS slots hasn't been the panacea for their problems.</p>
<p>
You know what first hand? All universities that can potentially poach top tier UC professors put a hiring freeze for the next few years. Looks like all the universities are riding this out together. Find me an antedoctal evidence this year and I'm sold. </p>
<p>Harvard lost quite a lot more than whatever they claim.
Edward</a> Jay Epstein: How Much Has Harvard Really Lost? </p>
<p>Temporarily to a large degree? For a school like Harvard to double its endowment by aggressively pouring money into unsecured sources, it still took them over a decade. Unless your definition of temporary is in term of decades, I wouldn't count on that. Imagine losing 25% of your annual expenditure (assuming 50% of their money comes from endowment), I'm sure UCs can sleep easier at night knowing their eggs are safe. </p>
<p>
Same story goes for USC. Find just one anecdotal evidence and I'll believe you, no ifs, ands, or buts.<br>
I did not say HYPS, D, E, R were courting her friends. You misunderstood my point which was only a few universities like HYPS make it worthwhile for certain profs from Cal or UCLA to make a move. Duke, Emory, or Rice would be at best a lateral move and in this tough time, it's not an option.<br>
Since we're talking about UCs, all these stories about Wisconsin or Urbana Champaign lost their stars are irrelevant.</p>
<p>I was a grad student at UC Davis back in the early 80s. Back then the UCs were highly ranked, but there were money problems accompanied by constant news articles and cries of alarm that, unless Something Is Done, all the best professors would leave, all the best students would go elsewhere, the UC system would collapse, and its rankings would go straight down the toilet.</p>
<p>So here we are ~25 years later, and the UCs are still highly ranked, but there are still money problems accompanied by constant news articles and cries of alarm that, unless Something Is Done, all the best professors will leave, all the best students will go elsewhere, the UC system will collapse, and its rankings will go straight down the toilet.</p>
<p>"only a few universities like HYPS "make it worthwhile" for certain profs from Cal or UCLA to make a move. " And where is your "proof" of this? You are assuming that profs from Calif might not want to stay in Calif, and the only colleges that can attract them are those out of state . My,what an elitist assumption!
And USC has a hiring freeze in place only for STAFF, not faculty. The proof is here.
<a href="http://www.usc.edu/academe/faculty/private/8009/Staff_Hiring_Freeze.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.usc.edu/academe/faculty/private/8009/Staff_Hiring_Freeze.pdf</a>
and here
USC</a> College : News : 2008 : September : New Faculty</p>
<p>By first hand I mean that I have 3 outstanding offers to teach at schools mentioned in this thread. Hiring freeze is a tenuous term. They will replace those lost through attrition and can make attrition happen. The couple I mentioned also both have outstanding offers. In my field, finance, I know many schools are actively looking to hire people from industry right now while the getting is good.</p>
<p>I also disagree that someone would not leave a top UC for Duke, Emory or Rice. Top profs attract top students and research funds and resources are paramount.</p>
<p>I put "top tier" and "hiring freeze" in one sentence. Unless menloparkmom uses the term "top tier" very very loosely, USC is not what I had in mind. Call me elitist all you will but no one in their right mind would trade down. The economy makes it harder for any other schools to sweeten the perks.<br>
The proof is not here because I want an example of prof A leaves UCLA or Cal to go to USC.</p>