<p>Well, your property value will be decreased too. Happy?</p>
<p>I’ll pay less property taxes if my property value decreases. It’s not all bad. </p>
<p>What do you do when your property decreases by 10% while you only pay a little bit less in tax each year (California property tax is around 1 to 1.3%) ? I am afraid I will sell my house and move to another state.</p>
<p>@Bay:</p>
<p>You don’t talk like you’ve ever been poor. For instance, you think it’s mean to wish someone to be poor. I have been before in my life, and I do believe that it cultivates certain virtues. </p>
<p>Don’t complain about traffic. Toyota already moved from Orange County to Plano, Texas.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-motor-texas-move-idUSBREA3R1AF20140428[/url]”>http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-motor-texas-move-idUSBREA3R1AF20140428</a></p>
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<p>That assumes that the birth rate is higher than the “replacement rate”. That’s not the case in the US. In your example, the population would start to shrink, until something happened that would increase the birth rate.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/28/us-birthrate-plummets-to-record-low/?page=all”>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/28/us-birthrate-plummets-to-record-low/?page=all</a></p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=259”>http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=259</a></p>
<p>California’s population is still increasing higher than the US average, but it’s being driven by international migration (think south of the border) and not by an increase in birth rate.</p>
<p>If you don’t consider international migrates, California is experiencing a net out flux of residents. </p>
<p>Why wouldn’t you consider international migrates? </p>
<p>^^^You would, it’s the reason California’s population is growing. However, these 2 million migrates are not coming to California to enroll as freshman into the UC’s. California has issues far bigger than anything associated with the UCs. Folks are voting with their feet and leaving the state (hence the net 1.7 million exodus from the state). </p>
<p>Bringing in OOS/International students to attend the UCs will not have much impact this exodus.</p>
<p>@ mom2ck said</p>
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<p>No, the concern should be both. I don’t doubt that there is no problem with admittance, since the bar is quite low. But if we see a decline in the number of in-state students attending the state flagship, we need to know why. If students from out of state find it so attractive, why are in-state students no longer finding it attractive, and, according to you, choosing to go elsewhere? If it’s the greatest most fantabulous university that ever existed, why wouldn’t an in-state student choose to go there?</p>
<p>But in reality, you have no idea. It is entirely possible that students want to go there, but it’s too expensive, for example. Would it really be the enrolled student’s choice?? That would be just as big a problem as if they weren’t admitted in the first place. And that is something that the university and state definitely has control over. </p>
<p>So, yeah, I think this is problem that should be investigated. </p>
<p>And as much as you knock the student in the article’s choice–in terms of major, class size, not knowing profs, etc. But at least at UCLA is much more affordable than UA for in-state residents. For example, the net price for UCLA for the lowest income group is around 8800 dollars while at UA it’s 17K.</p>
<p>The size of the undergraduate student body at UCLA and UA is about the same, though the student to teacher ratio is actually better at UCLA than UA (16 to 1 versus 25 to 1). UCLA has a better graduation rate that UA–90% versus 67%. For UA, 1 in 5 students actually transfer out!</p>
<p>I realize that your children had a great experience at UA, and you are a big booster for the school, certainly on this board. Nothing wrong with being proud of your school. But UA has problems that are emblematic of the problem of affordability in higher education–using its institutional resources for merit rather than need based aid in order to rise in the rankings, chasing out of state students to replace state support for higher education, newer, better amenities to attract students (a new 32 million dollar recreation center, complete with a new huge climbing rock), all accompanied by increases in tuition in the past 5 years.</p>
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<p>Not millions, no, but thousands are, every year. And thousands more are moving their high schoolers to CA to get instate rates. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what the point was of bringing up the exodus, as I don’t see how it relates to UC enrollment unless you have more information indicating say, that people are leaving because they don’t like the UCs. Instate application numbers don’t indicate that.</p>
<p>Our population continues to grow, regardless. </p>
<p>
Isn’t this the “wiil-never-be-resolved” dispute between the left-leaning group and the right-leaning group?!</p>
<p>I once read somewhere that, even a private university like Stanford at a rich place Palo Alto could receive more money from the public than a public college like California State University (at an obscure and poor place, Hayward?) which is located like 20-30 miles away. The latter serves more poor (in percentage of students at that school) than the former. Why should the former school deserves more money, even from the public source? (likely in the name of research as the rich school does have more money and clout to recruit top notch researchers who can bring in big money from the public source.)</p>
<p>I also learned that, UT Austin suffers in the rank because of the top 7 % rule. If a school is influenced too much by the left leaning group, it runs the risk of becoming a mediocre school over the long run. On the other hand, there are mo lack of people, especially here, who hate any schools who show any sign of élitism. </p>
<p>Both sides of the debate would agree higher education should be accessible and of high quality. That’s not a left/right thing.</p>
<p>Schools like UT Austin, UCLA, UNC Chapel Hill, etc. show that public education can be of high quality, diverse, attract low income students, and accessible. And attract predominantly in-state students. </p>
<p>I’m sure these places aren’t perfect. But I dispute the idea that you have to choose between ‘affordability’ and ‘quality’ or even ‘affordability/accessibility’ and ‘high caliber of student’.</p>
<p>@skrlvr:</p>
<p>One trend I’ve noticed over the past two decades or so is that more students want to go far away for college and more seem to want to explore different options compared to 20 years ago. For instance, I notice that my HS now has grads matriculating in obsure LACs all over the country that most kids there never even heard of 20 years ago. </p>
<p>That can explain why both more CA students are rejecting UCs and more OOS applicants want to enter UCs.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>In terms of applications, the interest from instate students has not really waned. </p>
<p>Ten years, there were 63,000 Californians applying for a freshman spot. And about 8,000 OOS and 1500 for internationals.
<a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/archives/2004/applications2004/app04table1_2.pdf”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/archives/2004/applications2004/app04table1_2.pdf</a></p>
<p>Today, that number is 100,000 for CA, and 26,000 for OOS plus 22,000 foreigners.
<a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2014/fall-2014-applications-table2.1.pdf”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2014/fall-2014-applications-table2.1.pdf</a></p>
<p>Transfers, which used to be mostly a CA affair went up from 22,000 to 29,000. </p>
<p>Now, in terms of admissions, the interest of the UC system in its “domestic” students has remained high. From the 100,000 applicants, it has accepted more than 60 percent of them! And about 12,000 of each OOS and Int’l groups.</p>
<p>One can hardly say that CA has turned its back to Californians. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2014/fall-2014-admissions-table1.pdf”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2014/fall-2014-admissions-table1.pdf</a></p>
<p>While the tables have changed, the high percentages are very high – all in the high seventies or eighties.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2009/fall_2009_admissions_table_6.pdf”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2009/fall_2009_admissions_table_6.pdf</a></p>
<p>The reality remains the same. There are tremendous numbers of CA students who apply to their flasghip schools, and the schools return the love by accepting more than 60 percent of them. The numbers have eroded a bit from the 75 to 80 percent, but they are still extremely high. </p>
<p>@PurpleTitan </p>
<p>I was referring to the situation at the University of Alabama, not the situation at the UCs.</p>
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<p>Is 60% high for state flagships?</p>
<p>@skrlvr </p>
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<p>But in reality, you have no idea. It is entirely possible that students want to go there, but it’s too expensive, for example. Would it really be the enrolled student’s choice?? That would be just as big a problem as if they weren’t admitted in the first place. And that is something that the university and state definitely has control over.
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<p>You think I have no idea? Really? I have plenty of ideas. First of all, who said it was the most fantabulous univ that ever existed? It’s a state flagship…many of them are essentially the same/similar. </p>
<p>Secondly, for various majors (teaching, nursing, and even engineering), there is often no need to “go away” to the Flagship when there is a cheaper and/or commutable very good school to attend. </p>
<p>And the state almost has two flagships (Alabama being the real one and Auburn almost being a second one) so kids often apply to both and choose which one they like better. Or they choose one of the other many state schools. The state also has UAH which has excellent engineering and a few other strong depts (science, business, nursing). UAB attracts many in-staters because it is medical dynamo …so those wanting careers as MDs, PAs, Dentists, Optometrists, PTs, BSNs, and Nurse Practitioners often head there. USA, which has the other public med school also attracts many who are interested in health careers. </p>
<p>It is expensive to attend Alabama if you are paying full freight. The school can’t do much about that. The state doesn’t provide any grants. The state opts to have many univs sprinkled around the state rather than providing state grants. You can argue which way is better (grants or more schools), but having many commutable univs does save families R&B costs. </p>
<p>That said, my argument stands… as long as Bama is not denying admittance to in-staters to make room for OOS students, then its critics need to find other things to complain about. </p>
<p>@mom2collegekids
You miss my point. I am not saying that OOS students are taking away spots from in-state students But there is a decline is the actual number (not just a decline in the percentage of the total number) of students since 2008.</p>
<p>I said that this is a problem. You disagree. I don’t understand why. If the trend continues, with fewer and fewer in-state students actually attending (in terms of actual numbers), at what point do we still call it a state university supported by the residents of the state? </p>
<p>With respect to speculations about the cause of the decline, I wlll point out that the situation you are describing existed in the years before 2008 as well as the years since. So nothing you described there can actually be the cause of the decline in the number of students. What has happened over the past 6 years so that fewer students want to attend? Why did more in-state students want to attend in 2008 and why has there been a decline since then? There has been a choice of state schools to go to previous in 2008 --so why now are more students making that choice to go elsewhere (and again, you’re completely speculating at this point, you don’t know the real reason for the decline).</p>
<p>Why can’t we complain about the lack of desirablity of UA for in-state students–why is this off the table??? </p>
<p>With respect to this line </p>
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<p>There’s actually a lot that the U can do about that. It can choose to use its institutional resources in a certain way. It could make other choices.</p>
<p>Are you essentially saying that it’s getting too expensive for many in-state students to attend, so deal with it? In other words, is the state flagship only for the wealthy citizens of the state and the rest can and should go elsewhere where it is cheaper?</p>
<p>OMG @skrlvr are you frickin’ kidding “Why can’t we complain about the lack of desirability of UA for in-state students?..” </p>
<p>UA in-state and OOS populations has grown, but OOS has grown more rapidly. </p>
<p>AL has some population centers that have higher household income, but there are many parts of the state where household income is low. I admire greatly the students who have the motivation to cobble together various jobs in addition to Pell Grant and student loan money to attend UA. I saw one young man that was on the student ‘avanti’ team, and he has high academic goals in music - PhD, composing, etc. Dedicated and determined.</p>
<p>It takes an ACT (or SAT) equivalent of 30 plus 3.5 or better GPA for Presidential (full tuition) scholarship for in-state students. I just talked to a gal from a large Huntsville area HS who is shooting for ACT 27 for a full academic scholarship at Troy University (she currently has ACT 25 and is a senior). Since she has not taken any test tutoring, I referred her to the tutor my DD used (and got her score up to ACT 30). ACT of 27 would be a much smaller scholarship at UA.</p>
<p>If a student has a better financial fit at one of the other state schools, that may also be a better academic fit for them.</p>
<p>Some students choose to commute - they may have a full academic scholarship at a CC or a near home college/university and the major they are interested in. </p>
<p>A friend’s daughter just finished two years at Snead State CC (near UA) playing softball on full athletic scholarship. She now is starting junior year at UA, studying public relations (UA is highly rated for their program).</p>
<p>The State of AL’s funding for UA (and other state colleges/universities) has declined very noticeably in recent years. However our fairly strong universities have been part of the great package - business friendly, with industries and jobs growing in AL.</p>
<p>@SOSConcern </p>
<p>As I have repeatedly said, it is not the case that the number of in-state students has grown. In 2008, there were 3207 in-state freshman. In 2013, there were only 2585 in-state freshman. That is a 19% decline in 5 years. So it is not the case that both the in-state and out-of-state enrollment has grown. The in-state enrollment has declined 19% and the out-of-state enrollment has increased 104% in that same time period.</p>
<p>My source is from al.com</p>
<p>So my question is–hjow come fewer students have decided to attend UA in 2013 than in 2008? Why is it less desirable in 2013 for in-state students?</p>