UCs Enrollment Now More Than 20% Out of State

Parents Forum
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<p>Bringing in an additional $400 million in revenue:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-out-of-state-20140818-story.html#page=1"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-out-of-state-20140818-story.html#page=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Excerpt:</p>

<p>The out-of-staters will include incoming UCLA freshman Bridget Bruggeman, who passed over her home state school, Indiana University, and other colleges that accepted her.</p>

<p>"Being from the Midwest, there is definitely an idea of California as a place where you can dream as big as you want to. That's something I was very drawn to," said the 18-year-old, who intends to major in international development studies and Spanish.</p>

<p>Her family decided UCLA was worth the extra cost, which will mean tuition about three times what it would have been for her at Indiana University.</p>

<p>"It definitely would have been less expensive to go to I.U., but I don't think I would have been as happy," said Bruggeman, who attended a recent orientation program at UCLA.</p>

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<p>I understand the draw of CA, but paying OOS tuition for CA public colleges is not worth it. </p>

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<p>never mind…</p>

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<p>About 60% are international students (of the 20%). Overall, that leaves about 8% OOS and 12% International. International students are driving up the % OOS students. </p>

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<p>At UCLA (for 2013) the break down is 72% in-state, 10% OOS, and **19% International<a href=“rounding%20up”>/b</a>. </p>

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<p>I do not understand this. Can someone explain it? </p>

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<p>As an international student, he does not qualify for UC financial aid, and his family is paying all costs. Charging non-Californians so much extra, he complained, is “hypocritical in today’s day and age of egalitarianism.”</p>

<p>Bay, you are correct. That is a nonsensical statement. Maybe they figure that all the kids that don’t get into Cal or UCLA or UCSD could choose Riverside or Merced, but don’t, so there is space somewhere in the system. The UC pretends that all campuses are equal, therefore no Californians were turned away. They don’t acknowledge that thousands of Californians were turned away from Cal and UCLA and Santa Barbara to admit people from out of the country, like the student quoted above. He, please note, feels it is unfair and yet he still came here to take advantage of the US’s superior educational system. </p>

<p>The UC is also in denial that they are losing political support by turning away Californians. Not true. More damaging to our state, California parents are sending their children out of state, because they have had enough of the UC’s policies. The best and brightest young people are leaving and many will not return. After graduation, they will find careers and start families in Colorado, Texas, Boston, Chicago, St Louis, Washington State, Michigan, Oregon, Arizona, the list goes on.</p>

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<p>The cause and effect may be reversed, or it may be a vicious cycle. Defunding UC at the state budget level (presumably due to lack of political support compared to other state budget items which have been prioritized by popular vote) means either higher in-state tuition, or fewer students who can be enrolled at in-state tuition.</p>

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<p>I welcome OOS students. People come to California, work in California, and pay California taxes.
I don’t mind weak Californian HS students go elsewhere.</p>

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<p>The actual number of in-state students accepted has not been reduced:

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But of course one could argue that enrollment growth should also be met by CA students.</p>

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<p>To further @ucbalumnus’s point, the revenue cuts came first, which led to the increase in OOS students. If you’re so concerned about spots in the top UCs for CA students, then you have to put your money (or your vote) where your mouth is.</p>

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<p>@momsquad UC-Berkeley has over 28K enrolled undergraduates, 50 students doesn’t do much to impact the percentages (71% in-state, 14% OOS, 15% International).</p>

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<p>Using UC-Berkeley as an example, in-state Tuition is $12,864 (in 2013) while OOS Tuition is $35,742. Then take into account the aid available to in-state students (and OOS) that’s not available to international students. UC-Berkeley gave out close to $250,000,000 in scholarships and grants (state and federal). So it’s not only a significant increase in tuition, but the UC/State of California/federal government also avoids the FA/scholarship expenses. </p>

<p>Using UC-Berkeley again, 27% of the undergraduates receive Pell grants (in 2013), of which almost all are in-state students. Yet in-state students only make up 71% of the population. So about 38% of in-state students receive Pell Grants and have significant FA needs. </p>

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<p>I also welcome our new OOS/International Student Overlords! :)</p>

<p>If you’re able to attend an OOS school, you’re not likely to be a “weak” HS students. Many of these OOS and especially International students do not stay in California after graduation. </p>

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<p>Completely misleading if driven by internationals. </p>

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<p><<<<
“Being from the Midwest, there is definitely an idea of California as a place where you can dream as big as you want to. That’s something I was very drawn to,” said the 18-year-old, who intends to major in international development studies and Spanish.</p>

<p>Her family decided UCLA was worth the extra cost, which will mean tuition about three times what it would have been for her at Indiana University.
<<<<</p>

<p>This family is in for a rude awakening…either in a year or so, or upon their D’s graduation. Her majors will not lead to some fabulous “dream big” career. lol (what the heck is “international development studies”? Developing 3rd world nations??) Don’t get me wrong. UCLA is a great school. I have 2 nephews there. However, the classes are huge, students don’t know their profs, the dorms are overcrowded…not worth $50k+ per year…Certainly not when IU could have been had for a fraction of the cost (likely with merit aid as well). </p>

<p>Yes, I can see how the $$$ really pours in with so many int’ls…they don’t get any aid. Many of those students are also in for a shock if their desire is to work in the US upon graduation or go to med school here (which many have as a goal). </p>

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<p>BS…unless the UCs are increasing enrollment, they are turning away instate students. Heck, just looking at the crazy admission reports from the last two cycles anecdotally suggests that…Qualified kids getting shut-out. Kids who were accepted to UCLA, rejected at UCB and UCSD and the reverse. Unless the UCs collude to make that happen, it makes little sense that a UCLA qualified admission would get rejected to UCB and UCSD and the reverse.</p>

<p>Our flagship (Alabama) sometimes gets the same criticism, but it counters the argument because it has doubled its size to accommodate all the OOS students it now enrolls…growing from 16000 to over 30000. Unless I am mistaken, the UCs haven’t increased their enrollments by much at all. </p>

<p>Even if the total # of instate students hasn’t been reduced, the population has increased, so the instate #'s should increase. </p>

<p>Oh those tax-dollars coming to the state from OOS spenders!!! No argument there. The local retailers around our flagship are having “Christmas in the Summer” incomes. “Black Friday” came sometime in Mid July here!!! The county will be flush with tax dollars by the end of the month. The stores loaded up in early July with trucks arriving daily for all the dorm/apt furnishings shopping. Employees are working 'round the clock restocking shelves. The stores are full from opening to close…all have extended hours. With over 60% of the freshman coming from OOS, most are buying their stuff here! (yay!) Moms, Dads, and college kids are pushing around over-loaded carts of coordinated home fashions. Even the grocery stores are booming with parents stocking up apts/dorms with food items. Restaurants are full and sales totals for all are amazing. :)</p>

<p>So, yes, it can be a tax boon for Calif if the UCs have these OOS students enroll, but the UCs need to grow their enrollments so that instaters aren’t being shut-out. That said, I don’t know if the int’ls are spending that much off-campus to generate much more in sales tax. </p>

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<p>Undergraduate headcount in the UC system increased by nearly 27% between 2000 and 2010 (the latest data I could find in the amount of time I cared to devote to googling this), and the overwhelming majority of that growth was on the legacy campuses, not from opening Merced. </p>

<p>I think the problem is that UC administrators talk about the system but many of their constituents only care about how hard it is to get into Berkeley or UCLA. And, meanwhile, all the Michigan residents are off to the side of this thread wondering what’s newsworthy about any of this. </p>

<p><a href=“Institutional Research and Academic Planning | UCOP”>Institutional Research and Academic Planning | UCOP;

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<p>This is true. UCR, UCM, UCSC, UCB, UCD, UCI, etc, can grow all they want…it’s UCLA and UCB that everyone wants. </p>

<p>If UCSF opened an undergrad that consisted of only science and basic gen ed classes, that school would become popular like UCLA and UCB.</p>

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<p>Other than Berkeley and UCLA – I never even heard of any of them before coming to CC. And I still can’t say I know anything about any of them. They’re all “University of California – some town I don’t know.” They all blend together, and I have to believe they don’t mean a heck of a lot outside of California. (Which doesn’t mean they may not be fine schools, but it’s as asinine to think that anyone outside California should know the difference, as it would be for me to expect a Californian to know the difference between Northern Illinois University and Southern Illinois University.) </p>

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<p>Unfortunately, mom2collegekids, the overall number of in-state students at UA has been on the decline since 2008, not just the percentage:</p>

<p>This is from good ol’ al.com</p>

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<p>@Pizzagirl: You’ve said this many times, and I fully respect your right to ignore the UC system, but the analogy is completely off. Six of the nine UC campuses are in the US News top 50, and even the “lesser” four of the six (Davis, UCSD, UCSB, and Irvine) probably would be the undisputed flagship if located in most other states. It seems to be cold comfort to Californians, but I’ve suggested to several of them that they ought to view their system as having half-a-dozen “flagships” – and, given the population, they need them all. </p>

<p>(At a personal level, I’m already lobbying for at least one kid to find a graduate program at UCSD at some point because I <em>need</em> to spend more time in La Jolla.)</p>

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<p>That may not be as surprising as it looks on first glance. Different majors are impacted at different campuses, so a student who picks a major that is more impacted at UCB and UCSD than at UCLA may get into just UCLA. The reverse is not too far-fetched either. If the student is an intended CS major and applies to L&S CS at UCB, that may not be as difficult as getting into CS (only in the engineering division) at UCLA.</p>