<p>I just read the article regarding that cook-out. I’d really really… like to look past the UCs lack of diversity, but I can’t. A diverse student body, in my opinion, is as much a part of an enriching learning experience as is chemistry or any other subject we study. And I don’t think I’d blame the students, regarding the cook-out. I’d blame the lack of an African American presence, which would better their understanding of individuals that differ from themselves.</p>
<p>@Kali22, I agree with you to a certain extent. The only way to combat prejudices is to bring people together so that they can see how we are all more alike than different. However, I don’t think that a larger minority population would have prevented an event like this from occurring. Even if there was a representative minority population, events like this could still take place. I blame the ignorance of the few students who thought that it was okay to deliberately stereotype and make fun of another group of people for something over which they had no control. This event could have easily been an event against Hispanics, members of the LGBT community, Asians, women, Jews, Middle Easterners, or immigrants. Ironically, people who hate rarely discriminate in who they choose to hate.</p>
<p>You’re right, having a larger minority population would not guarantee that something like this wouldn’t happen. However, a larger minority population would decrease ignorance and consequently decrease the likelihood of this ever happening. You’re also right in the idea that this could very well have happened to any other minority group, which stresses my point that a diverse student body is important, and not necessarily just more blacks. </p>
<p>I’m not trying disprove what you’re saying, just letting you know we’re on the same page lol. :)</p>
<p>LOL. 
I know, I just think its really sad and annoying that people can hate someone else for no reason.</p>
<p>I COMPLETELY agree… it really is quite annoying.</p>
<p>“You’re right, having a larger minority population would not guarantee that something like this wouldn’t happen. However, a larger minority population would decrease ignorance and consequently decrease the likelihood of this ever happening.”</p>
<p>This is true.</p>
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<p>Interestingly, while white applicants can prove they are qualified by flashing their stats, for black applicants you make a point to say that their stats do not indicate anything. Aglages, you are not hypocritical at all. Also, the whole point of the post is that, these AA students do not want to apply. I’ve reiterated that over and over. Why are you asking a question I have already answered?</p>
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You never answered my statement. You never rebutted it either. aglages, how many times do I have to tell you that sarcasm is not equivalent to an actual argument? When you can understand that concept, then you can debate. As for the idea that black people would not want to attend a school that is not racially diverse being preposterous, I chose my school only because it was racially diverse and I loved that. I saw black people everywhere. Hispanic people everywhere. I saw Israeli and Muslims. I loved it. And I knew that it was a place where I could focus on academics, not race.
Once again, you cannot prove that.
Aglages, don’t compare AA to something that isn’t even similar. Also, you can’t expect that a white person, with all the years of slavery and discrimination in this country, saying the n-word has the same weight as a black person saying the same word. One is co-opting a cruel word and trying to turn the use into something positive. The other is using a word that has a dark cultural history to reclaim his or her dominance. If you cannot make these abstract distinctions, then I waste my time arguing with you.
yes, we do. See above.</p>
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And I with you. You seem determined to milk as much profit/privilege as you can from the sacrifices of your distant relatives. It is time to stand on your own without expecting handouts and favoritism.</p>
<p>“Our culture has done African Americans a great disservice by engendering a sense of entitlement among them, and they do themselves an even greater one by insisting on perpetuating that attitude.”</p>
<p>Aglages, I’ve noticed you used that quote a few times. Where is it from, if you don’t mind me asking?</p>
<p>“Actually, it’s not so much that they can’t accept more blacks, it’s that all the qualified black applicants either choose not to apply or are accepted and choose not to come because of the lack of diversity which creates a snowball effect.”</p>
<p>Absolutely correct! My D is an example of this. The 2% rate (and the noose incident) at UCSD is what kept her from even applying there. And, the 3-5% rate at UCLA and UCB is one of the reasons she never even considered attending, even though she was accepted with multiple, fantastic merit scholarships.</p>
<p>It has become a vicious cycle for the UCs. Many minorities don’t want to go to a school with no diversity so the school becomes even less diverse which causes even fewer minorities to apply and/or enroll.</p>
<p>BTW. My D was accepted to UCLA, UCB and UCD. A few years ago, before we became aware of the abysmal statistics, UCLA was her number 1 dream school. [She wore a UCLA sweatshirt for inspiration for over 3 years!] But, last week, she and I had to laugh at one of the acceptance brochures they sent her. On the cover was a photo of a black male UCLA student. We thought that it must have been quite a challenge for them to find the one lonely black guy who happened to be outside when they were taking photos 
Or, perhaps he was a paid actor?</p>
<p>Anyway, the fact that the numbers are decreasing does not surprise me at all. Most of the high-achieving african-americans from California are being wooed by more diverse colleges across the nation, and my D was not interested in being the lone black girl whose photo would be taken and shown on the next UCLA brochure.</p>
<p>"How do you know they are qualified? Have they applied and been accepted? Please don’t tell me that their stats indicate they are qualified or how many Affirmative Action schools have accepted them. Have they applied and been accepted? "</p>
<p>Sorry. Didn’t see this.
@aglages, yes. D applied, was qualified and was accepted. A snapshot:</p>
<p>Objective:
SAT I (breakdown): 1520/1600; 2320/2400
ACT: n/a
SAT II: Took 5 (800,790,760,760,750)
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 3.9 UW, 4.3 W
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): Top 1-2% of 700 students (school does not rank.)</p>
<p>AP (place score in parenthesis): Taken 8 exams so far (will take 5 more in May), all with score of 5 (Physics, Calculus, Chemistry, Biology, English, History, foreign language, etc.)
IB (place score in parenthesis): n/a
Senior Year Course Load: 5 AP courses + 1 Honors course </p>
<p>Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): National AP Scholar, National Merit Finalist, National Achievement Scholar + lots of regional awards for academics and athletics</p>
<p>And, I reiterate. She did not apply to at least one UC because of a lack of diversity. And, the three others she was accepted to were not even considered, mainly because of the same reason. She is not the only one. We know of other similarly high-stat minority students who were thrilled that they did *not *have to attend a UC for this reason.</p>
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I understand what you are saying. What I am having difficulty understanding is when/how the UC system became so non-diversified that URMs chose not to apply there? Perhaps you can explain when this happened…and whether the original cause was the end of Affirmative Action for admissions consideration? What came first?
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<p>Never mind, aglages. I think I found where that quote was from, here If I’m not mistaken: [News:</a> UCLA Revamps Admissions - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/08/ucla]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/08/ucla). </p>
<p>It’s funny because I thought that it was said by an African American activist or something lol. But now that I read it in context, it really just seems like any other comment I’d see on CC. </p>
<p>I honestly wouldn’t have batted an eye at it had I seen it one time, but you kept saying it as it was fact so I got curious.</p>
<p>@dignified Congrats! While the UCs are awesome schools, they are not attractive due to the lack of diversity and incidents like what happened at UCSD. I LOL’d when you wrote about the lonely black guy on the brochure, there are a lot of colleges out there that do that and it is hilarious every time I see a brochure like that, but pretty sad at the same time. </p>
<p>In the case of what happened at UCSD, I’m confused as to what AA has to do with that. I personally think that the problems with racism that most college campuses have stems from people assuming that minority applicants are not qualified. Some people, unfortunately, look at a white or asian applicant and automatically assume that that person got in on their own and then turn around and look at a black or hispanic applicant and thinks that they needed a “boost”. It’s funny, though, because some of the most intelligent people at my school are a minority in some way, whether it be their race, ethnicity, or economic status.</p>
<p>EDIT: To clarify, I don’t understand how someone can call AA racist and then turn around and stereotype minority students as being unqualified in an attempt to defend their position…</p>
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Wow!!! Why would they possibly think that? Perhaps they just think they are less qualified and that without AA they would not have been admitted in place of more qualified applicants. Without AA there wouldn’t be a question of whether less qualified applicants are being admitted…but of course who doesn’t want the admissions advantage that AA offers SOME people…even if OTHER people question the qualifications of the “special” admissions applicants.</p>
<p>“Our culture has done African Americans a great disservice by engendering a sense of entitlement among them, and they do themselves an even greater one by insisting on perpetuating that attitude.”</p>
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<p>Hey, I will stand on my own. As soon as you stop expecting favoritism and handouts.
Do you expect me to agree with you when you sport sarcasm and one quote in place of an argument or when you reason shoddily to whatever rationale suits you? Do you want me to accept you using completely off the context posts as a red herring from real discussion?</p>
<p>When you stop expecting me to hand you out a pass on your shoddily constructed arguments, and stand on your own, then you will garner my respect.</p>
<p>There is an element of legitimacy to your comments regarding our Nation’s treatment of minorities, including African Americans. However, your argument fails to take into account several significant factors, one being that no race or ethic group in America has ever been given more opportunities to succeed than Black Africans. The establishment of HBCU’s, while discriminatory in principle, in practice was conceived as a means of providing educational opportunities, as was Affirmative Action - misguided and fundamentally unfair though it is. There are more poor whites on welfare than blacks, but the numbers as a proportion of the population are staggeringly skewed toward blacks, and spare me the argument that the reason is for lack of opportunity. Mexican Americans, Asians, Native Americans - all have faced discriminatory practices, but they have eschewed welfare in favor of doing whatever it takes to earn a living. Our culture has done African Americans a great disservice by engendering a sense of entitlement among them, and they do themselves an even greater one by insisting on perpetuating that attitude.</p>
<p>You might as well quote the whole thing ^_^. To me, that holds little weight in context…</p>
<p>Aglages, just because they are a minority they cannot get in without AA? Your quote suggests that you believe that African-Americans and other minorities are capable of succeeding without using AA, so why is it so hard to believe that they do so when they get accepted into colleges? How do you know for sure that people who get into certain colleges are unqualified? Did you personally read their application? Your argument that people are allowed to suspect that minorities are unqualified because of AA is no different from the argument of some Arizona lawmakers who think that all Hispanics should be searched just because they are the same race as people who come to the United States illegally.</p>
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I absolutely believe that some (many) URMs are capable of succeeding without AA. I do not believe that most that are admitted ahead of Asian and white applicants with similar or greater stats deserve to be admitted just because their great-great grandfathers/mothers were slaves. It is time to leave this undeserved and unearned sense of entitlement behind and to be evaluated on your own merit…regardless of skin color. At the very least…if you are going to milk the unfair advantages that AA offers you then please have the decency to not complain about how some people question your qualifications.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but this is pure nonsense. </p>
<p>Edit: Ah, I see you’ve rectified this. Glad to see we’re both on the same page.</p>
<p>However, the argument that the number of African-American students dropped because of “racism” following the UC’s decision is false - there are lower numbers of African American students who perform at high levels in schools, just as there are higher percentages of African-American students who live in poverty and fail to receive an adequate education. It’d be interesting (and very useful) to have a look at the percentages of students scaled against factors like income, parent marital status, and average SAT at the student’s school in a discussion like this, I think, since those numbers would be more informative than the shoddy statistics being used here.</p>
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<p>Numbers, my friend! I will never say not to cold, hard data. Since you like to do it so much, let me copy you (another handy trick I’ve picked up from you) and end my post with a quote:</p>
<p>“The plural of anecdote is not data.”</p>
<p>kali22: Let me help you out with this seeing you seem to be having difficulty understanding. Our culture has done African Americans a great disservice by engendering a sense of entitlement among them, and they do themselves an even greater one by insisting on perpetuating that attitude. Furthermore after insisting that they are “entitled” to special treatment, and taking FULL advantage of any AA opportunities, they complain about the lack of respect others have towards them and their supposed qualifications. Seems a shame that those URMs that have actually worked hard and could compete are viewed the same way as the “free loaders” that need the unfair advantages of AA, but that is how you are perceived by many when admissions decisions are made based on skin color.</p>