UD Honors vs. Bucknell?

<p>I'm so confused. I got into the UD honors program with scholarship money, but here's the thing. I've lived literally 5 minutes away from the school for the last 9 years of my life. Delaware is quite nice, but I just want a change. I want to experience life in different places, I want to meet new people (and get away from my annoying HS classmates... many of whom are going to UD), and I want to truly be on my own. If I go to UD, my parents said they'd allow me to stay at a dorm, but that's still not truly "on my own" to me because I know I will use my parents being 5 minutes away as a safety net.</p>

<p>Then there's the fact that Bucknell's my dream school. I'm frankly sick of the UD campus since I've been around it most of my life, and Bucknell's is just so pretty, haha. Do I even need to mention the prestige factor as well? And then there's the "fit" feeling I get when I step on Bucknell's campus. I know it's the place for me, and the alums who know me feel the same. I absolutely love the place...</p>

<p>However, now I'm looking at comparing 6k tuition at UD and 45k tuition at Bucknell (yeah, they weren't generous at all...). And that's just considering that prices don't go up in the next years (they will, inevitably). My parents are very self-sacrificing and are willing to pay for Bucknell, but I can tell they're a little concerned. Now it will be managing my brother at Notre Dame and me at Bucknell - two of the most expensive schools in the country. Not to mention that my brother's getting ready to apply for med school (he's a junior now) and I am determined to go to grad school someday. </p>

<p>I know UD's going up the ranks now, and being in the honors program certainly helps. However, in my heart Bucknell's my pick. It's just that my head can't seem to fathom the debt my parents (and I) will be in later on.</p>

<p>I am at a loss. Help?</p>

<p>I was in kind of a similar situation last year. I turned down a 22k renewable scholarship to Case Western to go to Bucknell. My parents are also self-sacrificing and were willing to pay for whichever college I chose. I still feel slightly guilty for making my parents pay so much since I would have probably received an equally good education at Case. But Case didn't feel right in comparison to Bucknell. One note though: don't weigh the prestige factor too much into your decision.</p>

<p>I'm trying not to, though there are the other factors that strongly put Bucknell in favor ("fit" and wanting change being the strongest). Thanks for your response, though. How is your choice holding out for you so far? Do you have to be really tight with spending money - as in, do you feel stifled in how much you can spend for "fun" stuff?</p>

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<p>I'm certain I made the right decision in choosing Bucknell. The classes are challenging, the professors are extremely approachable and friendly, and the students are both smart and social. Is it worth 50k a year? Probably not all 50k. But if I'm going to spend four years of my life in college, I want to spend them in a place I enjoy. </p>

<p>I don't really spend money on "fun" stuff, but that's really due to my own nature rather than knowing my parents are shelling out a large amount of money for my education.</p>

<p>"but I can tell they are a little concerned"
I would suggest you have a nice long talk with your parents about money and investing for the future. You are looking at a $175K cost difference, for two schools that are, for the most part, comparable in term of academics. </p>

<p>During our college search with our daughter last year, she proclaimed she wanted to go as far away as possible to school to experience 'being on her own'. Her mother said that sounds fine, as long as she found a school east of the Mississippi River (we live in Maryland). Next thing I know we are visiting Wash U in St. Louis, where I did manage to dip my toe in the river. Long story short, she ended up at Goucher College in Maryland (30 minutes from home). It probably was not her first choice, but a full academic scholarship was clearly the deciding factor. She absolutely loves it there. She is 30 minutes from home, but may as well be hours. She calls us when she needs something and I think enjoys being the local tour guide to all of her out-of-state friends. </p>

<p>Your college experience will be what you make it to be, no matter where you end up. </p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

<p>I have a son who is a current freshman at UD. There are students who are from Newark living in the dorm with him. However, he said they go home every weekend. We both thought that would diminish the experience of living away from home. So if you decide to save money by going to UD, I would recommend that you don't go home for the entire weekend more than anyone else does.</p>

<p>ilmor, that sounds wonderful. I'm not a big spender myself, so I guess I won't have too much of a problem with spending money either if I go to Bucknell. The students have enough "free" opportunities for them anyway, I'm guessing?</p>

<p>Mattmoosemom: Haha, yeah. I'm a bit afraid I might do that if I go to UD... Does your son like the school so far, though? And has he had any problems?</p>

<p>BlueHenDad, I certainly want to be at a distance from my parents, but I don't want to go too far. Bucknell seems like the perfect distance (3 hours): far enough for them not to stalk me, but close enough for them (or me) to visit on a weekend. Though you do have a point in that my experience is what I make of it, regardless of where I go. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm still pretty confused, but I'll have another talk with my parents and maybe my guidance counselor. My parents' logic with paying so much (other than being very kind) is that I wish I to be a doctor (whether M.D. or Ph.D, not sure yet). My brother's on the same route, as I said earlier. So, they figure that I'll have a high-enough salary later on to pay everything back. I'm just worried about the time in between - it's certainly a long road getting there.</p>

<p>Yes, he likes it very much and he has not had any problems. Many opportunities, actually. But I would venture a guess that if we lived in Newark, he would probably not want to go to UD. We live close to Rowan University in NJ and he didn't even apply there because it was too close. I wish you the best of luck in making your decision and I hope you are happy wherever you choose to go.</p>

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<p>Let's face it folks. This is about playing with egoes and insecurities and marketing. If institutions could genuinely defend their pricetags in terms of value, they would. Instead they allow the consumers to determine the value. And sadly, we do.</p>

<p>There are bright kids from Slippery Rock who've gone to Harvard Business School. And there are idiots from Bucknell who slept thru graduation. The struggle here is with us, not them. There aren't but a few figurative handfuls of Bucknell kids who could get into Princeton. How do we know that? Because they would, if they could. There's no diff in cost. And in fact they might get more aid there. And we can fill in many institutional names for Bucknell, so not to pick at them unduly. But the only real reason that merits going to is ego. Ours. Mine.</p>

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<p>Ashelia - if you think your family can afford the tuition at Bucknell and you feel very strongly that is where you belong, go for it. But if you also think you could be happy at DE, think about how much money you will save and how much you will have to put toward furthering your education. My daughter had a friend who went to Bucknell and was unhappy so transferred to DE and will be graduating this year. She has another friend who had a choice of several high tuition private schools but ultimately chose DE. She is graduating in May and has been accepted to several top medical schools. You can't go wrong as long as you choose the school where you will be happy for the next four years. Good luck with your decision.</p>

<p>Try Delaware for a year. You might like the view from inside & the Honors Program is well regarded. Financial pressure can affect your studies as well as family relations.</p>

<p>Or, think about it this way: calculate the difference in annual costs for attending UDel or Bucknell, and then ask yourself, what would you do if your parents gave you </p>

<ul>
<li>all of the difference?</li>
<li>1/2 of the difference?</li>
<li>10% of the difference?</li>
</ul>

<p>If your answer to any of these is different, why?</p>

<p>A lot of the people on my floor freshman year were from Newark and really didn't branch out. Hung out with their HS friends. What are you planning on majoring in? If science, I know UD's undergrad research program is pretty good.</p>

<p>ashelia - my s got into his state flagship honors college (at PSU) with multiple scholarships. His choice boiled down to PSU and two privates that are very close in prestige to Bucknell. He's a few hours (not 5 minutes) from PSU but he DID know quite a few students going there from his high school. In any case, the difference in cost, even with other scholarships was huge (just like your situation).
He chose his state U and we are saving one of his scholarships for after he graduates. Naturally, we are under much less financial strain (we saved more than what his college costs!). So, he is studying abroad this summer (never would have happened if he went to one of the privates). He will also have a nice fund for grad school.
So there are trade-offs. MY s is happy and doing well but he went in with a positive atitude. He also didn't have a real "dream" school among his selections (his two favorite schools - both VERY tough to get into - rejected him).
Sooo... my point is that you need to really think about what you need and then have a heart to heart with your parents. $175 is a HUGE amount of money. Are they going into debt for this? If you go to DEL, maybe they could help you a bit with med school.
Good luck to you!</p>

<p>Is Bucknell more than 7X better than Delaware? Will you be 7X happier at Bucknell than you would be at Delaware? This is not a difference of $10K a year or even $20K a year -- it is $39,000 a year, $156,000 over your four years. </p>

<p>Try to divorce yourself from the biases that we all have and that you have built up over the years -- that a highly-selective private school will magically open the door for you to success and riches. You will still have to earn your success and it is much easier to pursue if you are not loaded with debt. We all have egos which allow us to fall prey to such biases. What would your decision be if when you graduated and were applying to med school or looking for a job you weren't allowed to tell them what college your degree was from but had to demonstrate what you had learned?</p>

<p>Also, don't get caught up in "gotta have this" fever. That is that when buying a product -- a car, a house, a toaster oven, whatever -- you have a list of features that you absolutely, positively must have. You'll pay two or three (or seven?) times what the other models cost to have the one with exactly the feature you must have. I've fallen into that trap, and, you know what? About a third of the time, yeah, that feature is useful and I'm glad I got it. Then, a third of the time it's okay, but it turns out I didn't really need it or I just never use it and I didn't really need to have paid extra for it. Guess what, about a third of the time, it makes the product worse and I wish I had one that wasn't junked up with that useles gizmo . . . AND I PAID EXTRA FOR THE STUPID THING!</p>

<p>Many years ago I faced the decision of the very respected in-state public institution (considered one of the "public Ivies") or an Ivy. My parents said the same thing as yours - they would sacrifice if that was what I really wanted. (Okay, William & Mary and U Penn . . .) I chose the in-state public and graduated with no debt and my parents with no debt and a few years later, they were able to help me with graduate school. They told me that, at the time they had no idea how they would have paid for the Ivy, and were very relieved when I made the choice I did. </p>

<p>Also, as someone who lives only a few miles from the U of D, I can understand the feeling of wanting to go a little further away. But the reality is that you live in Delaware and there isn't a viable in-state further away option. Don't let that one negative be the sole deciding factor in spending over $150,000 that you don't have. If you don't want to hang out with all of your high school classmates, then don't. It's a large campus and you don't have to stick with the old gang. If you don't want to run home every weekend, then don't. You will find plenty to do on campus and nearby. Would it help if your parents told you that if you go to UD, they will consider it just as though you were going away to school in California and that you can't come home until Christmas?</p>

<p>Would the decision be different if Bucknell had given you enough aid to make the bottom line cost to you at least within reasonable sight of the 6K UD will cost, say within $10K or $15? Maybe. But Bucknell gave you bupkus. While they want you, they're not going out on a limb to get you. They aren't offering you a big scholarship and flying you up to spend a weekend to convince you to choose Bucknell over HYPCSM, like they are to the ones they consider the top 1 or 2%, the ones whose free education at Bucknell your parents will be subsidizing by paying the full ticket price for you.</p>

<p>Would it be different if your parents were wealthy enough that the cost is no concern? Well, you wouldn't be asking this question if that were the case. And, you are to be complimented for being insightful enough and considerate enough that you are concerned. </p>

<p>Now, this next point -- don't take it the wrong way. But, the 'big income because you will be a doctor so paying back $180,000" thing is a dangerous rationalization. There are a lot of pitfalls along that road. What if you hate it? What if you hate it but are stuck doing it because you have $180,000 in loans to pay back? What if you discover that what you really find rewarding is running a clinic in a small town or village in a remote part of the world (which includes some places in the U.S.)? What if our healthcare system collapses (a very real possibility) and being a doctor is not the surefire path to riches? What if your brother becomes a doctor before you and cures everything so we don't really need many doctors anymore? (He would do that, the creep!) What if your destiny lies elsewhere?</p>

<p>Before summing up, a note of disclosure. My son chose that same respected public Ivy (that his mother and I went to, except he's out of state so we're paying out-of-state tuition) over in-state UD. The price difference isn't as great as yours -- he didn't get as much merit aid from UD as you did and the out-of-state tuition is still significantly less than Bucknell. But the bottom line difference is close to $20K per year. UD had all the same negatives for him as it does for you. But, all of the points made above were genuinely considered in the decision, and we are fortunate that we can do it without incurring any debt on ourselves and he will graduate with less than $20K total debt, which we expect we can pay off or help him pay off when he graduates. But, he knows that he will be on his own for graduate school -- at this point either journalism or anthopology or maybe anthropological journalism (or is it journalistic anthropology and who's got the best grad school for that?). (And, yes, that he got accepted and wanted to attend his parents' alma mater made it easier to concur with the decision.)</p>

<p>My daughter is a HS junior and going through the process now and has the same reservations about UD. However, UD is actually a better fit for her than it was for my son -- she is more outgoing and gregarious and will fit in better in a larger school, it is very strong in the two very different program areas she is interested in studying, and it has many, many other programs to offer if her interests change or evolve. So far, we have visited 8 or 9 schools and she has found one she likes (seven hours away) with 8 - 10 more to visit before application time. I'd say that it is even odds on UD or somewhere else, as long as the difference is significantly less than $39,000 per year. </p>

<p>Final disclaimer - I think Bucknell is a fine school - one of my closest friends (wife's cousin) went there for two degrees. Beautiful campus, a thriving learning community that can inspire greatness. You would get an excellent education for $45,000 per year. </p>

<p>However, UD is an equally fine school. Nice campus -- not quite as nice as Bucknell (or William & Mary or Princeton or fill-in-the-blank), but really very nice. Thriving learning community, great research opportunities. You would get an excellent education for $6,000 per year.</p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you decide. Isn't it great to be in the position that you have this decision to make?</p>

<p>--K9Leader</p>

<p>Just wanted to chime in to say what an excellent post K9Leader!</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your response!!! I just found CC today while researching UDel vs Villanova. My son was accepted to both (engineering), honors for UDel. Sure, Villanova has the name, but UDel is beautiful and truly offers so much. I couldn't agree more about the cost. Based on monies given by each school, VU would be $88,000 more over 4 years (assuming current costs). As my son is coming from an all boys private school, he said that Villanova is just like his school except with girls. Very JCREW U. We are not wealthy by any means, but only have one child to send through college. However, it's a major life change not only over the next four years, but for years to come if we spend almost $200,000 on an education for 1 child. Our house cost less!!!
Again, thank you for your post - it's nice to know I'm not alone.</p>

<p>Ashelia:
So May 1 has come and gone. What did you decide? It is likely our D will face a similar decision a year from now, between UD Honors and ???
Whatever your decision, isn't it exciting and cool?<br>
--K9Leader</p>

<p>Sorry I haven't been here in forever. You know how end-of-the-year is for seniors... prom, AP exams, all that nonsense. I just sent a PM to K9Leader, but I will post it here as well. I realize much of it has been largely based on my experiences only, but both my parents and I are satisfied with my decision.</p>

<p>I decided on Bucknell. I visited UD during one of the Decision Days, and I was simply not impressed. The Honors panel session was basically comparing "regular" UD students and classes to the honors students and classes. One of the student panelists was very full of himself (though I admit I did like two of the other student panelists), and the parents of the honors students (when they asked questions) seemed overly-concerned about the actual caliber of the program and who their students would be around typically. Very elitist if you ask me. Also, as I put myself as an English major, I had to attend the English session hosted by an English prof. He seemed very unorganized, and whenever he was asked a question, 60% of the time he would never actually answer it but go on some unrelated tangent about who-knows-what... It gave the impression that he really didn't know what he was talking about. And also, he never even made a PowerPoint or poster or whatever; he just had a projector showing the website (and of course, this was after he was bragging about his students making PPs... which isn't even much to brag about in the first place). I mean, come on, I was supposed to be there to learn what I can't learn at home about UD... Finally, just watching a number of students walking in late into the session (plus just my overall impression of the students in general... and the fact that I saw maybe 10 of my classmates there, which was amazing to me since my school, Padua, is pretty small) gave me a sour taste. It just told me a little something about my would-be-future classmates. I was just so disgusted with my morning experience that I decided to leave right after lunch instead of stay the whole day. I will admit that three things I liked about UD were (obviously) the money, the study abroad program, and the winter session. Other than that, I was not impressed.</p>

<p>A few days later, I visited Bucknell for the second time (the first time was last year). It basically sealed in the deal for me. I fell even more in love with it. Campus is beautiful and secluded; IMO I want a campus enclosed and not having roads going through it. It seems safer and homier to me. The students (both accepted and current) certainly appealed to me. It was so easy (and a bit amusing) to see the difference: these students are serious and responsible about their studies, but they are also very nice, passionate about their school, active in a lot of things, and balance work with play. Now I never got to see any of the UD dorms (though it probably would have been convenient...), but I've heard they're hit or miss. At BU, I've frequently heard students say that there really are no "bad dorms"; some are just newer, but all are good. When I saw some dorms again this visit, I agreed--and there are just so many options too for housing (CHOICE housing, residential college housing, single/double/triple/quadruple housing, single-sex floor housing, etcetera). The tour guide (just like the last one) was great, and it was wonderful running into the president of the school and seeing him call the tour guide by name (after an affectionate joke towards him). The entire day was so organized compared to UD. Everyone knew what they were doing, and they were genuinely happy that we accepted students were visiting. And yes, I did decide to stay the whole day, haha. At the end of the day, actually, I turned in my deposit...</p>

<p>I think the number one thing that sold me at BU was everyone's passion. The staff, the faculty, the students, even the cafeteria cooks (by the way, they have great food!). It really showed me that people at Bucknell love Bucknell. I really got that personal community feeling.</p>

<p>(On a side note, Bucknell PR is awesome. They really, really go out of their way to help you. I had both a student intern and an alum email me back and forth to help me with my decision. I'm not sure if the student intern was specifically for me, but I know that with this alumni relations program BU has, the alum who has kept in contact with me (both through email and phone) was assigned specifically to me only. And, by the way, she is a very genial Bucknellian who is now a dentist!)</p>

<p>The only bad thing, of course, is the money. However, my mom, dad AND GC figured that they know I'm going to one day have a high-salary career (whether with an M.D. or Ph.D), so I can pay it off eventually. My parents will certainly help. They also figured that education is an investment. It may break the bank in the short run, but in the long run, it will rebuild <em>and</em> refill it. Loans are not bad as long as you are responsible and smart about handling them, and I'm confident my family will handle them well.</p>

<p>Whether or not I am going to be 7 or 10 times happier at Bucknell, I feel it is the right place for me to be. Things may not financially work out exactly as planned, but I think we will be able to handle whatever comes our way. We've certainly persevered from worse financial situations than this, and we haven't been better off than now.</p>

<p>Ashelia:</p>

<p>Bucknell is a great school and will be a great place to spend four years. If it is a better fit, and you went into it with a full awareness of the costs, which too many students and families gloss over or ignore, then it is the right decision for you.</p>

<p>My son had to make a similar decision between UD and William & Mary. He finishes his sophomore year at William & Mary tomorrow morning and will be home sometime later in the week. The cost differential was not quite as large as the one you faced (about $11K per year at UD vs. $35K per year at W&M) but it is significant. It helps that his mother and I are W&M grads so we understand the choice. He, too, felt more comfortable in the smaller, more academically-focused student community, and the smaller college feel of W&M, which is very similar to that of Bucknell.</p>

<p>My daughter will go through this same decision process over the next year. Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck at Bucknell!</p>

<p>K9Leader</p>