Uh Oh (Free Taiwan!)

College Confidential Community
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<p>My grandfather was in that war. No direct comfortation? Actually most of the war was fought between US and China.</p>

<p>Yes, we've done it by massing millions of people, those determined ones, our sons, fathers, grandfathers...</p>

<p>they died like fleas.</p>

<p>but they are undefeated. Without any hightech weaponary.</p>

<p>Don't just say that "China is easily defeated".
if you choose to fight them, they are still as determined, only differences is that they may possess mini-FAB (fuel air bomb, the second most powerful weapon to next to nuke, Chinese managed to pack it in a one-man package, the PF89), airsupport from Q-5 and Su30 fighters, and last, nuke.</p>

<p>Devise a strategy that you can defeat it, and I will point out your flaw.</p>

<p>Have you ever heard ANY US military general comment that USA can "easily" defeat China?</p>

<p>And last of all, there is NO point. Tell me a valid point to invade China besides "China is gonna invade everyone" or "I want all those Chinese dead".</p>

<p>Oh, BTW, China was NEVER DEFEATED in war against any other nation. Even the Japanese's momentum was halt.</p>

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<p>I have never ever said it was going to be easy taking down China's massive army. But the snobbish persona that you adopted on behalf of China really irks be, since it's relatively untrue.</p>

<p>And I have never, ever said "China is gonna invade everyone" or "I want all those Chinese dead." To be honest, a great number of my friends are Chinese and they really don't care about Taiwan.</p>

<p>No offense, but if Japan wasn't concentrated on the war effort and instead, concentrated on occupation and colonization, both China and Korea would be Japanese territory right now. Japan had one of the most skilled occupying forces in the world (sad to say) and nothing, and I mean nothing would have halted their progress had it not been for the United States entering into the Pacific front.</p>

<p>And no offense, believe it or not, China DOES NOT HAVE 1.2 BILLION KALASHNIKOVS! (Better known as the AK). </p>

<p>Second off, you claim to be a military buff on another thread, and yet, you know ** nothing ** about battle tactics. What crazed person would sent BLACK HAWK HELICOPTERS (used to carry members of Special Forces) into a BOMBING zone?</p>

<p>** DISCLAIMER: I am NOT advocating the use of force on China. I am seeking the maintenance of a peaceful relationship with China and the United States, and am ONLY discussing this situation under hypothetical, military strategical scenarios. Under NO circumstances do I actually WANT this to happen. **</p>

<p>Where are your links to prove the number of MiGs in China? Oh wait, I guess the Propaganda Ministry has that covered up, right?</p>

<p>No one will ever dare try an Infantry invasion against China; that's like invading Russia during the winter. </p>

<p>And here's the rather ** stupid ** part about your argument too. Not all 1.2 billion citizens of China are ready to bear arms. Some are too young, some are too old to operate weapons. Some, just can't. And you also don't have enough mechanical weaponry to distribute to the populace.</p>

<p>You are riding under the illusory banner that some idiot will try to invade China by use of infantry force. </p>

<p>Let's say China's Air Force is as good as you say it is. Send a fleet of bombers, China's Air Force intercepts ** MOST ** of them. But it can't intercept all; so one or two (out of a dozen, maybe) missions are completed. What would that do to the "invincible" belief? Oh, man. I can think of it now. Red Army soldiers being attacked from high on.</p>

<p>Fathers, brothers, sons, uncles -- will perish in the hopeless fight. No one wants this to happen. You yourself said you were running away from it. I don't want it to happen. I want people to live out their daily, normal lives, without the worry of a bomb flying overhead. Yet, the CMC and the bureaucrats of China are making this all the more surreal.</p>

<p>Most Chinese don't care. Some have been brainwashed by the propaganda materials of the governing powers-that-be, yet most Chinese simply don't care. They're out to make a living. And when you march off to war, guess who's the first people to perish? The bureaucrats? No. </p>

<p>Do not try to glamourize anyone's military prowess. War is an ugly thing. It should always be avoided. You focus on the glamour of it all; you attempt to sympathize with the other side but fail to do so because you are failing to portray yourself as genuine (I am not saying you are not genuine, but this is what I am seeing.)</p>

<p>You claim to be running away from war and yet you are a so-called "military buff" with * sooo * much knowledge about what these weapons are capable of doing.</p>

<p>You are fighting politics with engineering schematics. Come back when you have some real ammunition.</p>

<p>And, oh, by the way, the reason China was never defeated in war against another nation was because China was too busy fighting itself. First with the Kuomintang, then the miserable failures of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution (in which Deng Xiaoping almost got displaced), and of course, who can forget Tianamen?</p>

<p>Oh, and before that, Pu Yi (the Last Emperor, who managed to live into his 60s as a gardener living in a shack, thanks to the great re-allocation of China) was fighting against those who deposed him later on.</p>

<p>By the way, re: Japan.</p>

<p>I find it ironic that you claim to be running away from war yet you advocate the glory of China's strength. War is never a good thing; my home nation is fractured by over 50 years of war and is still torn apart today. If anyone knows about reunification, it's Korea. Yet, you don't see me, nor any other South Koreans advocating for the forceful invasion of North Korea, now do you? Or vice-versa?</p>

<p>I don't see why China can't let Taiwan be a separate nation. Will China let nationalist pride get in the way of a petty island? Let bygones be bygones.</p>

<p>I am not attacking anyone personally. I tend to think myself as a pretty friendly guy, and never let these debates get in the way of my personal relationship with anyone. Please don't take what I say as a personal assault on you.</p>

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<p>Y can't we just leave the folks on the other side of the earth alone, so what if china invades taiwan, there will still be ppl making silicon chips for Dell and Compaq, only difference will be they'll be stamped Made in China instead of Taiwan, and Y get all worked up about what' "right" and what's "wrong", even if taiwan becomes independent, Ang Lee will still be making Chinese movies and the taiwanese will still be writing in chinese, I can care less about either, both r gonna happen whether the Taiwan nation or the Taiwan province exist.<br>
point being, what's the difference between Made in China and Made in Taiwan, it all Chinese to me, independence won't change that, let the power crazed politicians from both sides deal with it. so Y don't we focus on something more relevant and important (i.e. whether adcom likes paper app stapled together or clipped together).
And finally, andrew...spend more time macking the BH girl and less time ****ing geng look-alikes off.</p>

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<p>Why not nukes? biological and chemical weapons?</p>

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<p>I respect your opinion, northrams, but remember. USSR just was destroyed by its internal problems. It was based on the horror and dictatorship of many nations. You can say, that USA caused it. Maybe, but I think not USA won cold war, but USSR did lose it.</p>

<p>China has not such internal problems, so I thibk the war is inevitable.</p>

<p>Black... You say Chinese don't want to attack USA? Look at yourself, you're eager to kill every American..</p>

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<p>Vietnam..</p>

<p>USA fought thousands of kilometers away from its territory.. without using great weapons (because officially war was S. Vietnam vs. N. Vietnam).</p>

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<p>The most stupid thing ever..</p>

<p>You were under Mongol yoke for hundred years.. Japanese killed 35 million of Chinese, and USA helped you then.. and USSR.</p>

<p>USA also has never been invaded.</p>

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<p>"USA also has never been invaded"</p>

<p>Is this supposed to be irony?</p>

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<p>James, just because Decathlon is over doesn't mean that you can order me to start macking it to the BH girl :P.. Besides, she's taken I think.. and plus, 540385098409231 other guys are hitting on her.</p>

<p>On subject: Umm.. Well, James, the converse is also true. Why does it matter if it's stamped Made in China or Made in Taiwan or Made in the Conglomerate of the Federal Republic? Let China let Taiwan be.</p>

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<p>It doesn't matter, but when USA has to nuke (and get nuked back), it matters.</p>

<p>Oh, I don't want to kill every American, I am an American myself. What I am afraid of is their JL2s.</p>

<p>I don't want to get nuked.</p>

<p>go use NBC weapons, and USA may well get nuked back (true for any country with nukes)</p>

<p>Why not let Taiwain be
Because Taiwain is historically a part of China, Japanese returned Taiwain to CHINA (Republic of,), not Taiwain. The democratic party is not at war with China (nationalists are)</p>

<p>Also, there are hints that USA WILL NOT aid taiwain.</p>

<p>The USA military command instructed Taiwain to last at least two weeks for reforcement arrive (what do you think, CVs teleport?)</p>

<p>They can't last two weeks, even their "secretary of defense" admit that.</p>

<p>Vietnam war was not fought with great weapons..</p>

<p>What are great weapons? cutting edge fighters were there, experimental weapons (such as the FAB) were there, B52 were there, SR71 were there, latest infantry weapons were there (M60, a derivative of German MG42), latest tanks were there, it was not about the weapons.</p>

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<p>Do you remember when I said about Chinese immigration?
If you're American, and is against USA, you should return to China and live there.</p>

<p>Stop immigration from China! Otherwise, US will be destroyed from the inside.</p>

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<p>Great weapons are Nukes, Bios and Chems.</p>

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<p>blackdream... i hope ur kidding about the person getting beat up for being american in china kind of ****, cuz i've been to taiwan, and chinese citizens are not abused... i myself cannot tell the difference between a mainlander and a taiwanese at times</p>

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<p>and might i add, it is called the republic of china NOT because the japanese returned it post war, but rather post the sino chinese war, the nationalist* rightful gov't was exiled by a bunch of farmer communists... if any country truly deserves any independence it is taiwan...</p>

<p>stardragon, i also resent your comment, i am an american born asian, and i love living here, i do not see the point in halting all immigration from china, there are many chinese people proud of the title of an american</p>

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<p>Obviously you don't know your history.</p>

<p>"Taiwain is historically a part of China"</p>

<p>Actually, for only 8 years under the Ching Dynasty. Then in the Treaty of Shimonoseki, they gave Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity, which means, forever.</p>

<p>"Japanese returned Taiwain to CHINA"</p>

<p>Wrong wrong wrong. The San Francisco Peace Treaty with Japan ordered Japan to give up sovereignty over Taiwan, and that "...the future status of Taiwan will be decided in accord with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations." </p>

<p>You need to re-learn your Asian history, because you're extremely misled.</p>

<p>Try another perspective on the history of Taiwan other than China's propaganda: <a href="http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1624.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1624.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Even if Taiwan (and note, not "Taiwain") is technically part of China, it has the right to pursue independence. Civil disobedience: if you don't agree with your government's policies, then yes, you have the right to protest civilly against said policies. And look how the U.S. started...</p>

<p>Anyway, China's reasons for wanting Taiwan back are weak. Power/influence? That stuff's frowned upon nowadays. Historical reasons? Heh, if we started going by history, the British and the French should have control of North America, since they "historically" had colonies here.</p>

<p>Taiwan is really different from China already; they might as well be two countries. Taiwan has its own Chinese dialect and uses traditional characters and a non-Western based phonetic alphabet.</p>

<p>Ah well. I don't know what's going to happen. I wish China would just drop the issue. They don't stand to lose much by letting Taiwan go.</p>

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<p>Blackdream, I would like to respond to your earlier post.</p>

<p>"People who inhabited Taiwain came from mainland, they eat the same food, speak the same language, and it wasn't until 40 years ago was these two regions separated."</p>

<p>That doesn't make any sense.</p>

<p>"Recently, the president of Taiwain purposed to let Taiwain become an independent country, or even better, become a part of Japan. (he thinks Japan is better than Mainland)."</p>

<p>We've always wanted to be an independent country. It's not like the President Chen just woke up one day and decides that Taiwan should be independent.</p>

<p>"Also, because Taiwain is legally a part of China, China has the right to claim it by force."</p>

<p>You might want to back your claim up.</p>

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<p>This is ridiculous...Blackdream has no idea how to phrase a valid argument. We really need to stop arguing with him...its pointless...</p>

<p>This is his rebuttal to "there was no DIRECT conflict between American and Chinese troops":</p>

<p>"My grandfather was in that war. No direct comfortation? Actually most of the war was fought between US and China."</p>

<p>What in the world are you talking about? What happened to the Vietcong...yeah those guys. Were they Chinese?? </p>

<p>"Yes, we've done it by massing millions of people, those determined ones, our sons, fathers, grandfathers..."</p>

<p>What the hell is that supposed to mean? It just means that you're so damn biased towards a country you immigrated from that you can't analyze any valid opinion without resorting to "I'M CHINESE." </p>

<p>"Oh, BTW, China was NEVER DEFEATED in war against any other nation. Even the Japanese's momentum was halt."</p>

<p>This kid has an inferiority complex. He's so determined to prove that China is the strongest country ever. </p>

<p>I'm just going to make a list:</p>

<p>CONFLICTS AND WARS IN WHICH CHINA GOT THEIR *** HANDED TO THEM:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The Mongols - nomads from the north swooped over your "Great Wall" that took so many years and lives to build.</p></li>
<li><p>European imperialism - you heard of "spheres of domain"? The Europeans just carved up China with its 1 billion people any way they saw fit. </p></li>
<li><p>Opium War</p></li>
<li><p>WWII - i don't know what you're talking about...the way Japan singlehandedly dominated China while simultaneously fighting the US and expanding into Manchuria and Korea is an embarassment.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>altho i don't agree completely with bigjake's assessment of the situation at hand, i do agree that china has no validation for ANY action against taiwan</p>

<p>note* i AM chinese as well</p>

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<p>^There was no assessment there :) I was just expressing my frustration at Blackdream's stupid, biased arguments.</p>

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<p>It angers me how his arguments and claims have no validity. It's not my business if he's bias and picks his side, but he can't support it.</p>

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<p>...not that that makes it my business now, but he attacking something i truly believe in with nothing but arrogance and ignorance.</p>