<p>Why do we have to care what's going on between China and Taiwan? There's nothing we can do about it.....</p>
<p>sure, but we are never defeated.</p>
<p>Native Americans are defeated, they permantely lost their lands, etc.</p>
<p>I am not trying to that China is the strongest country, it is YOUR attitude and arrogance that angers me.</p>
<p>I say again, I give you valid arguments, but you won't listen.</p>
<p>Go read up on military and world history.</p>
<p>Mongols ARE PART of CHINESE and we are proud of them (unlike certain American who consider that only people from Europe are real Americans)</p>
<p>ever heard of crappy governments? Opium war was result from such a government.</p>
<p>So you are trying to prove superiority of your ancestors, well sure, I have inferiority complex, and I won't try to argue with you about who were stronger in the past.</p>
<p>BUT, if USA attempts to fight war on three, four fronts, it will fall from its world dominance due to destruction of its economy, and I do want to see that (I live in the states and I have no plan to go back)</p>
<p>you have what I've called blank patriotism. You failed to do anything for your country like what JFK asked you to do, but you are keeping on giving plain bad suggestion to her.</p>
<p>I think you're too much of a wuss to face the truth. Oh, I did read up on history, and it proves you wrong. Why don't you try and respond to what I said about the treaties, huh? And that's just one of the dozens of valid arguments against your claims. Admit it, dude, China has no right to sovereignty over Taiwan.</p>
<p>"I say again, I give you valid arguments, but you won't listen."</p>
<p>Yeah, and I say again, history and reality proves you wrong. And it's hard to get your point across when you're obviously misled and denies it.</p>
<p>"it is YOUR attitude and arrogance that angers me."</p>
<p>I'm sorry? I'm not the one claiming my government's dominance over another people with no valid argument. I'm also not the one supporting my government's bullying of a smaller nation. Leave us alone.</p>
<p>"Mongols ARE PART of CHINESE and we are proud of them"</p>
<p>No they are not. Mongols were considered to be barbarians during their rule in China. Haven't you read those kong fu novels?</p>
<p>LOL l33twinkie that's hilarious... but yea that is true...</p>
<p>""Mongols ARE PART of CHINESE and we are proud of them"</p>
<p>Well...apparently...they weren't proud of you...seeing as to how the first Mongol emperors didn't let Chinese people work in their courts. </p>
<p>"sure, but we are never defeated.</p>
<p>Native Americans are defeated, they permantely lost their lands, etc."</p>
<p>By that logic...there are very few countries that were "defeated."</p>
<p>blackdream, why do you keep spelling taiwan wrong?<br>
also, you seem to imply that the only kinds of people in taiwan are the natives and then the people from the mainland that immigrated to taiwan in 1949. actually,most of the taiwanese people came from the mainland several hundred years ago. </p>
<p>the taiwanese want to be independent. they deserve it. the two countries are not the same. just because the language and cultural are similar (not even close to being the same) does not mean the two countries are the same. are the caucasians in america who immigrated to the us from europe considered europeans today? are the caucasian americans and europeans the same just because they are from the same place? no, they are americans.</p>
<p>also, i don't appreciate your comment that the president of taiwan staged the gunshot during the elections. that is only a rumor that started from the people opposed to his party. it is not fact.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Mongols ARE PART of CHINESE and we are proud of them<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I have never heard such a spew. Are you healthy? </p>
<p>LOOK guys! Chinese think that everyone of Mongolian race is chinese. They'll occupy all those countries and then "establish the truth" - kill all Europeans.</p>
<p>Don't be so sly! I don't know why you live in "so awful America", and not in your greatest China. Get out..</p>
<p>Haha stardragon...he's right</p>
<p>Chinese coming over to gain the benefits of American education, then they go back to China for college and careers.</p>
<p>Star i remember your "China: friend or foe" thread...i think it got shut down...one line i remember:</p>
<p>"If you're Chinese no offense but your country is the enemy of Western civilization."</p>
<p>Hahahahaha I love that line. Good stuff.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Chinese coming over to gain the benefits of American education, then they go back to China for college and careers<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Exactly. I don't know why Asians have advantage in admission process as an "underrepresented minority", I think now they're "extrarepresented majority". This is discrimination. I understand when the people from 3 world countries with bad opportunities for achievments have some advataage, but chinese..?</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>sure, but we are never defeated.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>WE???? So you consider yourself Chinese, and you'r american. What the hell are you doing there?</p>
<p>The only advantage Asians have in the admission process is their preperation for college. Asians DO NOT benefit from affirmative action. You know, that's why you see some Asians protesting against it.</p>
<p>Blackdream,</p>
<p>Iraq and Afghanistan are a ground wars, the army is tied up. Taiwan will require virtually no ground forces, only Navy/Air Force, which is incredibly dominant over all other countries. </p>
<p>It is extremely unlikely the US will lose a carrier as you said before, nothing is allowed to get within hundreds miles of the battle group, and there are many, many defenses between that border and the ships. The only chance is a ballistic missile, and even that is unlikely to get through. The reason its a problem defending the entire continent is the range, when you are defending ships in a relatively small area the problem is easy.</p>
<p>The US didn't lose the war games you referenced with India, they just didn't get as high of a kill/death ratio as they would have liked, and they tested specific situations which are not going to happen in a real war. Its fun to mull over the 'what if' the bad guy is standing right behind you with a shotgun, but its not going to happen. This is the same reason the sunburn/schkval torpedos are a non-issue, a submarine would have to get within a relatively short range to launch these at the carrier or other ships in the battle group. They will never get that close.</p>
<p>edit: To clarify this, I think the kill/loss ratio for the F15 in this exercise was about 5:1, however, this is a result of the differences in pilot training.
"Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed."
The US is buying 339 F22s, the last will be delivered in 2013. Just to compare, we have ~800 F15s now. Given the ratios by the British study, our current F15s have the power to destroy 263 Su-35s and 339 F22s will have the power to kill 3390. Lastly, AFAIK China's air force is mostly migs, su-27s, and su-30s, but I definitely don't know that for sure.</p>
<p>Also, this was purely planes vs. planes, but much of USAF strategy uses things like AWACs and other info.</p>
<p>Militarily, this is a non-issue. China's army size means absolutely nothing until they are able to transport them, do you suggest they swim to taiwan? </p>
<p>The real problem is China owns all our debt, if they dump it the economy will take a ****.</p>
<p>I can't edit now, but here is more info on the India war games:</p>
<p>I was way off on the kill/loss ratio, it was closer to 1:1, I am probably thinking of a subset of the war games, but regardless good info there.</p>
<p><rvleshrac> <terrorists> <strong><em>, maybe we shouldn't take hostages from countries whose people are more insane than us.
<rvleshrac> <china> You give back hostages, or we kill all muslim.
<negaduk> i think if they *</negaduk></china></rvleshrac></em></strong> off china too much, they'll find that china, the US, and britain will turn the middle east into a big walmart parking lot
<rvleshrac> <china> We use nuke. What we care you nuke us? We have billion more people.
<negaduk> <china> nuke beijing. we tried sars. it no work
<rvleshrac> <china> We stop birth restriction, we make billion more. Three day.
<negaduk> i think china's just being antisocial so someone will thin their population
<rvleshrac> Seriously.
<rvleshrac> China's answer to anything should be "We stop birth restrictions"
<rvleshrac> <us> Stop flooding our markets with cheap goods, or we stop selling you soybeans. <china> We stop birth restriction! <us> F*k. OK, OK! You can have the damned soybeans!
<rvleshrac> I bet that was the real reason Clinton gave them our satellite codes.
<rvleshrac> <china> You give us code, or we flood world with chinese!
<nightstar> damn those bad chinese laundry places
<rvleshrac> <china> You never get decent haircut. You explain to women why no manicure.
<rvleshrac> <china> We own you like Hong Kong.</china></rvleshrac></china></rvleshrac></nightstar></china></rvleshrac></rvleshrac></us></china></us></rvleshrac></rvleshrac></rvleshrac></negaduk></china></rvleshrac></china></negaduk></china></rvleshrac></terrorists></rvleshrac></p>
<p>just to clarify, the US did fight a chinese "volunteer army," ostensibly going of their own accord, but somehow trained and supplied by the chinese and soviet governments, in the Korean War. they swarmed over the border just as our troops had possession of most of NK, and drove us back to the shore of SK, until we pushed back to what is now the border of North and South Korea. this was a completely different situation, involving major infantry battles and a different time with less air and naval based technology. it was further complicated by the fact that truman did not want to expand the war to fight china directly, as they "officially" did not support the army in North Korea. this desire on trumans part led to MacArthur's firing, and probably saved the world from WW3.</p>
<p>so yes, there has been direct fighting between the US and China.</p>
<p>stardragon and bigjake, altho i do understand ur point in this discussion, there is no need to insult all people of chinese heritage, i am asian american and i love living in the us, nor would i "take advantage of a us education and return to china" you two are grossly misjudging the greater chinese population... and we DO NOT have any advantage in the admissions process, not sure why you would think so, if anything it's a disadvantage to be asian because of the competition</p>
<p>
[quote]
>>Chinese coming over to gain the benefits of American education, then they go back to China for college and careers<<</p>
<p>Exactly. I don't know why Asians have advantage in admission process as an "underrepresented minority", I think now they're "extrarepresented majority". This is discrimination. I understand when the people from 3 world countries with bad opportunities for achievments have some advataage, but chinese..?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Asians are overrepresented in the admissions process, they are discriminated AGAINST. Geez.</p>
<p>
[quote]
""Mongols ARE PART of CHINESE and we are proud of them"</p>
<p>Well...apparently...they weren't proud of you...seeing as to how the first Mongol emperors didn't let Chinese people work in their courts.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>jake, I don't know where the heck you're pulling that out of. Many of the famous strategists of the Mongol era were of Han descent. </p>
<p>In fact, the Mongols adopted the Chinese culture, they were essentially assimilated into the Chinese culture when they conquered the Chinese, they used many of the styles of art, furniture, and education systems of the Chinese when they took over.</p>