<p>applying to ND early this year...</p>
<p>how do you think the admissions committee would handle an app. essay about me being gay and still wanting to go to ND.?</p>
<p>If I were that counselor I would be surprised but probably impressed that a kid would have that kind of courage. We all know that ND gets bad rep for interactions with gay and lesbian students. Most of this I think is unfair, it's not Bob Jones or Liberty U. It's God, Country, Notre Dame, not God, Guns, and Gays as the "moral majority" would have you believe. We had a required gay awareness event at orientation. I will say that I haven't met more than a half dozen openly gay students but I went on a CSC seminar where one of the guys was gay and it wasn't any problem with the group I was in. </p>
<p>If that essay is the best one that you can write, then use it. If not, then use something else. Either way man, I wish you the best of luck.</p>
<p>i know a couple of gays and lesbians and i know for a fact that they've never felt attacked. BUTTTTTT! ... a big BUT, some - if not most - are transferring out. they're probably leaving not because people at notre dame have treated them unfairly or they've had some kind of discriminative encounter, but because they probably feel in a more comfortable environment elsewhere where the homosexual population is considerably larger.</p>
<p>I think you should write about it if you can write the best essay with it. It also defines you and your beliefs, so it would be kind of efficient instead of an essay talking about your leadership roles in sports,etc. and trying to persuade the adcoms. Get what I mean? Good luck!</p>
<p>If I were on the adcom, I would think:</p>
<p>Here is someone who defines himself as "gay" in a college application essay, so evidently his sexual orientation is A Big Part of his identity. Why would such an student want to attend ND (and apply early, to boot), when the single most distinctive thing about the university is its Catholic identity and mission? Does this individual understand that the Catholic Church's teaching on homosexuality is crystal-clear -- that the Church regards a homosexual orientation as "instrinsically disordered" and homosexual behavior as gravely sinful? Does this prospective student expect that his future roommates will be supportive and understanding regarding his attraction to other young men? Does this prospective student want to attend ND in order to change university policies on homosexual relationships or to challenge Catholic Church teachings regarding homosexual behavior? Does he feel that he has something to prove -- to his parents, to his high school classmates, to the parish priest -- by flaunting his homosexuality at ND? </p>
<p>That's what I would think. I wouldn't be impressed at his honesty, but rather highly skeptical of the sincerity of his desire to attend ND, and not at all convinced that he would be a good addition to the student body. </p>
<p>And I have to say that I would NOT be thrilled about this person becoming one of my son's roommates....</p>
<p>wow.</p>
<p>caliboi1313, I think you just had an example of what you may expect. </p>
<p>I hope if you do go there you will make it through and happily so, and if you don't, well, your life will be a lot easier.</p>
<p>why risk it?
why ND?
ND's greatest asset is the fact that is the best christian/conservative university in the USA. It just doesn't make sense that a gay would want to go there when there are so many similar universities. (similar academic wise)</p>
<p>What are your feelings about sodom, gomorrah, admah, and zeboim?</p>
<p>I agree that the inhabitants were known for being morally depraved in general, but the bible is very clear that homosexuality and anal sex were the chief sins.</p>
<p>claremarie, you are right on the mark regarding caliboi... There are certainly many other major universities, even some Catholic ones if that is what he seeks, even those with a football identity, where no one will even blink about his sexual orientation. It seems to me, caliboi, you might be happier looking elsewhere.</p>
<p>claremarie, you wouldn't be thrilled because you're unsure of what the gay roommate could possibly do to your son, OR of what your son could end up doing to him? insecurity is only a step away from prejudice.
LUCKILY, you're not a Notre Dame adcom, because i ASSURE you that most, if not all of the adcoms, are not like you. A great part portion of being an adcom is being impartial.
Not that i'm gay, defend homosexuality in any way, or endorse it for that matter, but it bothers me when people are just sooo critical. Acceptance is more Christian-like than rejection and condemnation.
stop questioning other people's motives in such an aggressive manner.
people like you give notre dame it's really bad "close-minded" reputation. you make it sound as if the nd community has no tolerance for anyone but other catholics.
well newsflash claremarie, there's a whole world out there with more people than just christians, and to be able to grow, develop and become better persons we must first learn to accept and live with all sorts of people without so much hatred and prejudice regardless if they're white, black, green, blue, gay, bi, or whatever.
this is exactly why we need people like the OP in notre dame: to learn how it's like to live with other homosexuals and develop tolerance and love for others, so we can all interact daily as one big community and help each other out ; NOT to discriminate him for his sexual tendencies and make his life any harder. We go to Notre Dame to open our minds, to become aware of the world, to arm ourselves with the right tools and knowledge to make the world we live in a better place, NOT to band together as catholics to criticize and condemn the world.... that would be very "unchristian" of us if you ask me...
ok enough, i hope i got my point across without insulting anyone. i apologize in advance if i did.</p>
<p>svirish, no need to apologize, some people need to hear it</p>
<p>I'm with you claremarie. 'Accepting' homosexuality and 'opening up your mind' is nothing more than a masquerade the devil uses to get people to be more tolerant of sin. Homosexuality is a sin, I don't know how anyone could argue with that. Accepting it is nothing more than tolerating sin. Opening up your mind just sounds so nice doesn't it? Satan certainly doesn't lead you into temptation by telling the brutal honesty of situations though.</p>
<p>I believe there is some confusion on Catholic teaching... The Church has no teachings against homosexual orientation. It is the act of homosexuality that is "instrinsically disordered."
From the Catechism:
[quote]
Catholic Catechism on Homosexuality
from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (English edition 1994)</p>
<hr>
<p>2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity [1], tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered [2].” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstance can they be approved.</p>
<p>2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The question is, caliboi- do you define yourself, above all, as being "gay"? Or are there other things that are more important to you? Because if you do define yourself first and foremost as a gay person, Notre Dame may not be the place for you. As an adcom, I would be impressed with your honesty, but would wonder how you would fit in at Notre Dame. Because not all Notre Dame students are accepting of homosexuality, a person who first and foremost screams "I'm gay!" is not going to be embraced by everyone. However, if you aren't one of those people who feels the need to make sure everyone knows they are gay even before they know their name, Notre Dame could be an excellent fit. Because, contrary to what many people would have you believe, Notre Dame students don't go around stoning gay people all the time. On that note, if the topic of your essay is why you want to go to Notre Dame DESPITE being gay, the adcom may think "this guy thinks Notre Dame is a horrible, homophobic place" and think that you really don't understand what Notre Dame is about or that you are attempting to challenge the university and prove a point. If it's really something you feel strongly about and feel that it's the best essay you can write, then go for it. Just be careful that you don't give the wrong impression.</p>
<p>And claremarie- I agree with a lot of what you said. Anyone applying to ND must understand the Catholic church's teachings. But I also agree with svirish that you are being a bit too judgmental. I am a Catholic and believe that homosexual practices are wrong, but I don't think it's right to be afraid of your son having a gay roommate, etc. Especially since your post comes off a bit like a personal attack, which can hardly be considered Christian.</p>
<p>shellzie, to answer your question: No. my homosexuality does not define me, there are certainly more important qualities I possess. If someone was to come up to me and ask me "what are you?" my first response would not be "gay." I am intellgient, I am American, I am a man, I am proud, and I am strong. I would say all of those qualtiies above being gay, not because I am ashamed or un-proud, but because being gay does not define every aspect of my life. </p>
<p>Wow. I swear the people who claim to be the most religious are often the most ignorant as well. Case in point:clairemarie. Do you understand that the Bible also defines alcoholics, petty thieves, and the sexually promiscuous as being sinful? And if you think there are not students such as these at Notre Dame, then you are simply blind to the obvious truth. I am not wishing to go to Notre Dame to receive a good religious lesson or 'purification' as the Church sees fit. I am applying to ND to receive a quality education at a respected university I have come to love. I understand that not everyone is pro-homosexuals, especially at such a conservative campus. But like svirish claimed: the purpose of college is to open our eyes to the world and develop and better ourselves as individuals; and by shielding oneself from life's inevitable-we are only further promoting ignorance and discrimination. I suppose you would "not be thrilled" if a Jew, Muslim, or an athiest were to be your son's roomate either-for fear that they would convert him? Just as I would pass my homosexual tendecies onto him if we were dorm mates, correct? </p>
<p>Homosexuality is far from a communicable disease, and by exposing your son to gay people he will be able to perceive this if he is the educated, intelligent ND student I assume him to be. This issue has gone beyond my essay topic, because this is a deeper and more meaningful topic. I want to spend my four years and countless dollars at ND-is that not enough? I am not qualified because I am gay, because I dare love another man? Allow your son to make his own judgements, because if he were to stick with yours-our world would be going nowhere fast. The future is about progress, and the future starts now-especially in college when are minds are pining for informtion and experience. Clairemarie, if you really want to call yourself or your son educated, educate yourself first: Notre Dame needs the entire spectrum of the human race to truly educate and allow its students to experience all walks of life. I urge you to seriously think upon this, and see what you come up with.</p>
<p>"because I dare love another man?"
-That is a frightening statement.</p>
<p>now why can't you other super conservatives be more diplomatic like shellzie?! she's made it clear again and again where she stands in regard to homosexuality and yet... she's not as quick to judge and disregard people like others.</p>
<p>"claremarie, you wouldn't be thrilled because you're unsure of what the gay roommate could possibly do to your son, OR of what your son could end up doing to him?"</p>
<p>My son would not be comfortable sharing intimate personal space with a young man who has openly declared his sexual attraction to other young men. Just as neither he nor I would want him to have a roommate of the opposite sex.</p>
<p>Especially since your post comes off a bit like a personal attack, which can hardly be considered Christian."</p>
<p>Hardly. The question was, how would the adcom of the country's flagship Catholic university view an application essay centered on the applicant's homosexual orientation. If the goal is to win admission to the university, I don't think that's the way to go. But I would never encourage an openly homosexual student to apply to Notre Dame, because it's unlikely to be a good fit.</p>