<p>i know ive posted here before and it caused a bit of controversey but whatever, i, a gay HS senior, have been accepted to ND early action as a nd scholar and reilly weekend invitee!!!! and now am considering it as one of my top prospective schools for next year. i want to know the opinions of current students as to how gays, if existant, are treated on campus and how they fit in to the social and religious aspects of ND!? thanks a lot guys...
ps. i wrote my ND essay on being gay and how catholicism and sometimes ND is intolerant in their actions and methods towards gay students</p>
<p>Went to an SYR in December, there were two gay guys together, no one really cares.</p>
<p>Catholicism doesn't exclude homosexuals, but there are certain expectations of a Catholic who is a homosexual that aren't there for heterosexuals. Rest assured, though, that anyone caught in the act by an RA, whether gay or straight is going to ResLife. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong there are a few dbags out there who try to act homophobic because they want to be manly, but they mostly live on mod quad and are just angry because they were mr. popular in high school but not anymore. Many more people sport the "Gay? Fine by me" shirts. </p>
<p>I hope you attend and I hope you love it just like everyone else, regardless of race, religion, or gender.</p>
<p>thanks a lot bpayne;
any other opinions please!?</p>
<p>Personally, I think you would struggle to make guy friends... I think most people are OK with it, but they aren't going to embrace it and probably will not befriend you. If I were to guess, most people would just be like OK that's fine and say hi to you and be nice to you but be afraid to pursue any real male bonding with you (but I'm sure that might occur regardless of where you attend).</p>
<p>We were given a talk earlier this year by a gay student hear on how we can be tolerant of gays and not offend them, etc. He seemed EXTREMELY miserable, and even told us he didn't want to go to Notre Dame (basically, he implied pretty strongly he was miserable and extremely depressed).</p>
<p>Not trying to deter you from coming here. I, personally, have no problem with gay people, and I hope you do come here and have a great experience, but they are just my honest thoughts.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>I'm not sure if I heard the same gay student speak as jvon, but the student who spoke to my dorm acknowledged that his life had been very difficult here- although I didn't get the impression he was miserable. If he had been, he would have transferred, I would think. This student had a bad experience and one dorm and had switched to Zahm, which he said was much more tolerant. I think that there a lot of people who sympathize with the tough time gay students face here, but of course, there are always going to be a few jerks. One of the best friends I've made this year is a gay male. He had some problems with his roommate and switched this semester and is loving it. His new roommate is very respectful and totally accepts him. So while there are some homophobic people on this campus, there are also plenty of people who are disgusted by homophobia, myself included. If you want, I can put you in contact with my friend who is gay- I'm sure he would have no problem telling you his experiences. He has no plans to transfer and seems to love it here. PM me if you want to talk to him.</p>
<p>Well, one does wonder why you would chose to attend ND as a gay male, but I guess that is another discussion. Of course, there are going to be people who exclude you, even harass and belittle you - did you expect it to be otherwise?</p>
<p>As Catholics, many of these people are taught to "love the sinner, hate the sin." If you are actively flaunting your "gayness" and seeking a same-sex partner on campus, you are essentially saying you disagree with all the teachings of the Church, and it is more your defiance of authority than your sexual preference (which is likely viewed more of "your cross to bear" than your "preference"), which will make your life uncomfortable.</p>
<p>And, as far as roommates go, I would not want my daughter to live in a tiny cell-like dorm room with a heterosexual man. I certainly would not want my son to reside in a room with a gay man. The near occasion of sin and temptation would be overwhelming!</p>
<p>fencersmother--I disagree with you strongly. Are you really suggesting that college kids here don't like gays because it is a defiance of authority and goes against the teachings of the church!!? ha!</p>
<p>I guarantee the same people on campus who hate gays also defy catholic/administrative authority in many other ways (having sex for one!). They are simply ignorant, homophobic students, not some crusaders for the Catholic religion out to ridicule those who do not follow some strict interpretation of the Bible.</p>
<p>lastly, if your son is as wonderful a Catholic as you seem to be, then he should be able to beat the "temptation" involved with having a gay roommate.</p>
<p>amen to jvon. Fencersmother, I find it funny that you are so worried about the temptation your son would face if he lived with a gay man-- if you've raised him according to your mighty Catholic standards, he would have nothing to be tempted by, right?</p>
<p>Also, the original poster has as much right to "flaunt his gayness" as I have to flaunt my "straightness." I do not see how displaying his homosexuality would qualify as disagreeing with ALL the teachings of the Catholic church.</p>
<p>You also seem to have no problem with the OP facing harassment and belittlement-- some Catholic, huh? I'm not really sure that thinking this is okay qualifies as "loving the 'sinner.'"</p>
<p>Yikes!!! </p>
<p>"Of course, there are going to be people who exclude you, even harass and belittle you - did you expect it to be otherwise?"</p>
<p>I would expect young adults intelligent enough to be admitted to ND to know that it is morally corrupt to exclude, harass or belittle someone because of their sexuality.</p>
<p>"If you are actively flaunting your "gayness"..."</p>
<p>The OP never suggested he would "flaunt" his sexuality, but heterosexual males at ND flaunt their masculinity so there's no reason the OP shouldn't flaunt his masculinity.</p>
<p>"I certainly would not want my son to reside in a room with a gay man. The near occasion of sin and temptation would be overwhelming!"</p>
<p>Your reference to "overwhelming temptation" suggests you are concerned about your son's inability to resist entering into a sexual relationship with a homosexual male. If your son is homosexual, your narrow-mindedness won't make him heterosexual. </p>
<p>If you do not believe you could have chosen to be homosexual but are choosing to be heterosexual, then you must allow that homosexuals don't have a choice either. If there's no choice, then homosexuals are as your God made them, in His perfect image.</p>
<p>The near occasion of sin would not be for my son, but for his gay roommate. </p>
<p>That's why they do not have co-ed dorms at ND - </p>
<p>Anyway, I am sure that the OP will find both acceptance and difficulty at ND, as he would at almost every other U. And, there will be people who are "mean to him" not because he's gay, but because he's not a football fan, or because he drives a car they don't like, or for any other stupid reasons. People are mean - that's life.</p>
<p>Definitely not the place for the flamboyantly gay . More of a don't ask- don't tell kind of place.</p>
<p>caliboi- I was accepted EA too, and will be attending ND next fall! I would be so appalled if my fellow ND classmates would sink so low and be so close-minded as to not accept and respect you as a gay student. Most of the students I know there are mature and open-minded enough to respect the differences of others. It is something we learned in kindergarden, people. As for me, I am not in the least bit religious, so I don't really give a hoot what the Catholic rules are, and neither should you. ND is a great school, unlike any other, and I hope to see you there next year!</p>
<p>"The near occasion of sin would not be for my son, but for his gay roommate."</p>
<p>Homosexual young men are no more likely to find your son irresistible that you are to find your girlfriends' husbands irresistible. Most people, homosexual and heterosexual, can appreciate an attractive body without feeling an irresistible compulsion to sexually assault that attractive body.</p>
<p>Well, I wouldn't let my daughter room with Bill Clinton ,either.</p>
<p>fencersmother; youre a prime example of ND's biggest drawback: its closed-minded, ignorance and blind obsession with the catholic faith. </p>
<p>everyone else, thanks for the input...and i appreciate more comments from others in order to get a better feel for life on campus, i shall be visiting in march!!!</p>
<p>It's ok, Caliboi. Just remember: ND is a CATHOLIC school, half-filled with yucky Catholics. There's a chapel in every dorm, and (shock!!!!) every Sunday you'll find 85% of your dormmates in there for mass.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, I hope you do love your experience at ND! It's a great institution and there's a place there for everyone. I am sure you will find life-long friends and 30 years from now, you will be sending in your alumni checks with a smile, remembering the football games, finals weeks, the Snowstorm of the Century, etc. </p>
<p>I'll pray that you experience none of the bad things that I listed above. ( But, why did you ask for opinions if you didn't really want them?) Certainly, as a mature young man, you know that there are going to be people who treat you nicely - and those who don't. I would never treat you poorly in person - but don't walk into any situation with blinders on. Obviously, you are aware of the difficulties which can arise in life - or you wouldn't have asked the original question.</p>
<p>Anyway, I hope you love ND, and have four incredible years there. Good luck!</p>
<p>Catholicism defines ND and it is what it was founded on so to disrespect this "yucky" catholic attitude and the chapels and the student participation and then say ND is great is kinda of like saying how great something is even though its basis of inception and its defining values appall you. In short, it doesn't make sense.
Of course, that doesn't mean you will not find bad catholics, just as you will find bad people of any culture or creed. What is bad though is not their Catholicism--it is often the misguided and misunderstood way they try to express it...or they may just be *******s with a grudge. You will however find TRUE Catholics at ND to be tolerant, loving, and accepting, recognizing that even if they don't hold with part of your lifestyle, it is not the whole, absolute you and therefore they can appreciate you as a great person and even a great friend despite disagreements, just as we all do with our friends.
Good luck in your decision</p>
<p>Caliboi, think of it this way - you were bold enough to openly state your sexual orientation in your essay and acknowledge that ND has a stereotypical bias against gays on campus. the adcom reads essays keeping in mind whether or not they believe that you match the profile for ND. They would not have admitted you if they feel that you would not like it here. In other words, they want you to come here...they would not put you at a disadvantage like that if they didn't think you were welcomed here.</p>
<p>I see it this way - I know of a couple of ND students on campus who are gay. I think that what really determines their acceptance here really is not their sexual orientation, but who they are as a person. One of them who is really disliked and had dorm issues, moves around a lot, etc brings it completely on himself for just not having any sense of common courtesy and acting like a poor me all the time. Another one is very flaunting and all but overall is a harmless, outgoing, friendly guy that a lot of people respect on campus. It really is all what you make of it.</p>
<p>So truthfully, it's a personal choice that you have to make if you want to come here, and if I were in your position I would find choosing to come to ND or not to be a touch decision. It's very true that there are many other higher level institutions that are much more tolerant of homosexuals (don't listen to that idiot woman fencersmom or whoever, her posts are ignorant, tactless, incorrect, and she is a plain disgusting representation of what ND truly is). It's not a matter of being gay, being a gay ally, or whatever you want to call yourself, but a matter of principle - how do you choose to live your life and do you generally behave in a way that is perceived by others as admirable - that's what will define how well you will "fit in" here.</p>
<p>caliboi: I personally think it might be hard to make loyal friends at ND, because, frankly, it is closed-minded compared to other similar elite universities. That being said, I would have no problem with you being one of my classmates there, and I'm sure many ND students feel the same way. I suggest staying on campus for a few days, sitting in on lectures, and asking the students themselves, face to face, whether they think you would fit in. I certainly hope their answers are courteous and positive, but if they aren't, it might be best to look elsewhere. Best of luck!</p>
<p>There is a stereotype commonly applied to gays, that they behave, speak, and gesture in an effeminate manner.</p>
<p>If you adhere to this unfair and ignorant stereotype, than you can expect to face intolerance at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>It's too late now, but you should have considered Jesuit universities, for the Society of Jesus is one of the most progressive, forward-thinking, rational, and liberal Catholic orders. It has been throughout modern European history.</p>