<p>"Wow. I swear the people who claim to be the most religious are often the most ignorant as well. Case in point:clairemarie. Do you understand that the Bible also defines alcoholics, petty thieves, and the sexually promiscuous as being sinful? And if you think there are not students such as these at Notre Dame, then you are simply blind to the obvious truth."</p>
<p>We are all sinners. However, an applicant struggling with, say, the sin of petty thievery would hardly write an application essay describing his desire to attend Notre Dame notwithstanding his desire to steal his roommates' belongings. An applicant guilty of sexual promiscuity would most likely NOT write an essay about his intention to violate the parietals so that he can hook up with random sex partners. </p>
<p>From your other posts, it is evident that your essay would not be along the lines of "I am a faithful Catholic who has struggled with same-sex attraction issues, and I want to attend Notre Dame because I'm convinced that the school will offer the resources I need to continue living the virtue of chastity." If admitted to ND, you are unlikely to have a positive experience, and no university wants to admit someone who will end up transferring.</p>
<p>lol caliboy everytime you start a thread it seems to blow up... i'm a conservative catholic at ND who would have no problem rooming with a gay, BUT can you answer the question everyone is posing--why do you want to come to a conservative catholic university as a gay?</p>
<p>maybe for the same reason EVERYONE wants to come here! the sense of family, the amazing football games, the excellent education... maybe he just can't find that perfect combination anywhere else (I COULDN'T!) and being gay at a conservative university isn't enough to stop him from going to such an amazing place! anyone think of that!?</p>
<p>i hope you get in, and if you do write that essay maybe write about how being gay isn't enough to stop you--explain why ND is a perfect fit for you despite you being gay.</p>
<p>I don't see anyone telling people of other religious affiliations to not apply so why are people telling him not to?</p>
<p>Well, I'm not Catholic, but I would like to point out that being gay/bi/trans etc, does not stop people from being devout Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Baptists, etc. Just because Caliboi loves men doesn't mean that he can't love God too. There's plenty of gay priests and rabbis, and there was recently a storm of articles in the press about the jewish reform movement adding blessings for gender transitions. There's nothing wrong with being gay and religious, and if thats how Caliboi sees himself, then maybe Notre Dame is the place for him. If anyone's interested, Andrew Sullivan has some interesting writing about being gay and catholic.</p>
<p>Some of this is just ridiculous. If want to be a Domer, caliboy, and you can put up with these people, more power to you. I have met amazing people at ND and I have met complete dbags. I would rather every student at ND be a homosexual, atheist, skate boarding pot head if they were all good people than uberCatholic, conservative, chaste, rich kids who are complete idiots. Unfortunately, the admissions committe can't determine good and bad people, but they can determine everything else, including orientation if you write about it. I would advise you not to let homosexuality define you (which you already understand), of course there are no gay parades at ND, but those are far from mainstream homosexuality anyway. If you fit ND in everyway and you are also gay, then go there. If that one aspect of your life makes the rest of your life at ND unbearable, then I am ashamed of my school, and I apologize on behalf of all students who did nothing to help a fellow Domer.</p>
<p>"'Accepting' homosexuality and 'opening up your mind' is nothing more than a masquerade the devil uses to get people to be more tolerant of sin. Homosexuality is a sin, I don't know how anyone could argue with that. Accepting it is nothing more than tolerating sin. Opening up your mind just sounds so nice doesn't it? Satan certainly doesn't lead you into temptation by telling the brutal honesty of situations though."</p>
<p>To argue that homosexuality is a sin is to argue that heterosexuality is a sin. Ask any Biology major. Don't bring that garbage. No one takes it seriously anymore. In any case, it has nothing to do with a University education.</p>
<p>The homosexual community at ND may not be large, but I know from publicized events that they are unwilling to back down to prejudice. Students are realizing more quickly than some parents that sexual orientation is not something to be afraid of. Sure, tolerance may be more lukewarm at ND than at other places, but hate and ignorance have no place there. I have good friends who are gay at ND, and I hope they never encounter some of the sentiments I've read here today.</p>
<p>"To argue that homosexuality is a sin is to argue that heterosexuality is a sin. Ask any Biology major. Don't bring that garbage. No one takes it seriously anymore. In any case, it has nothing to do with a University education."</p>
<p>ND is a CATHOLIC university. The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual behavior is seriously sinful. Whether a random biology major agrees with that teaching is really neither here nor there, and certainly not determinative of the issue. And a college student who has blindly accepted the secular culture's insistence that homosexual and heterosexual behavior are morally equivalent demonstrates only his lack of formation and his inability to engage in critical thinking. And, of course, critical thinking has EVERYTHING to do with a university education.<br>
ND is never going to be a bastion of "gay pride," and openly homosexual students considering their college choices should give serious consideration to whether ND makes sense for them. The small openly homosexual population at ND should be a huge red flag.</p>
<p>"And a college student who has blindly accepted the secular culture's insistence that homosexual and heterosexual behavior are morally equivalent demonstrates only his lack of formation and his inability to engage in critical thinking."</p>
<p>That is the most ridiculous statement - Just becuase some people's views don't mesh with yours does not allow you assume they haven't thought about their views at length.</p>
<p>No assumptions are necessary. This is not the statement of a person who has thought about the issue "at length:"</p>
<p>"To argue that homosexuality is a sin is to argue that heterosexuality is a sin. Ask any Biology major. Don't bring that garbage. No one takes it seriously anymore. In any case, it has nothing to do with a University education."</p>
<p>Instead, it is nothing more than a knee-jerk response that reflects pretty poorly on the university education the poster has received thus far. But it does rather nicely indicate the degree to which that poster has absorbed the teachings of the secular culture.</p>
<p>Ahh but you are wrong, I have thought about the issue at great length and still disagree with you. </p>
<p>However I end my postings on this thread here as I simply do not want to get into a debate over something of this nature yet again, as they always end with both sides mad, and niether with a changed view.</p>
<p>I am curious to hear your opinion on why we don't tolerate pedafiles. Loving a child sexually is really no different that loving another man. They are both perversions. </p>
<p>This may sound crazy now, but 50 years ago, accepting gays was unheard of. I guess that is just the moral decline in america. 50 more years and having sex with kids will be pushed for acceptance.</p>
<p>The difference is maturity. I really don't think that the two are tantamount. Homosexuality has no intrinsically predatory nature, while pedophilia is rooted in a desire to dominate those who have no defense. In this way, it is more akin to rape than homosexuality. Homosexuality is not an act, it is an aspect of the person. The Church opposes the act of homosexuality because it closes the sexual act to the gift of life. This is the same reason it opposes masturbation and birth control. Your opposition to accepting gays is really against Church teaching: hate the sin, love the sinner. You must be able to differentiate the act from the person.</p>
<p>should i drop out of ND cause i beat off? i'm one big sinner in that respect ha... for those of you who "hate gays" or go on your religious rants about sinners, i hope you choose not to ever have protected sex or masturbate or any other sinful lifestyle</p>
<p>^ What they said. Aren't all sins supposed to be sort of equal anyway? If you break one commandment that's equivalent to breaking the whole law. Or something to that effect.</p>
<p>IIRC, the Bible doesn't expressly forbid jacking off. There was something about Onan spilling his seed on the ground because he didn't want to impregnate his dead brother's wife, but that would be classified under coitus interruptus. And I think it had more to do with him disobeying God's orders about impregnating the wife than with jacking off.</p>
<p>So...uh...you should be fine jvon. With God, that is. Now with The Church, that's another matter...</p>
<p>To answer the OP's initial question, which was something along the lines of "would writing an essay about my being gay be ok?", I would have to say yes, if that is the best way you can express yourself (though, we do both understand that that is not the only thing you identify with). Remember though, it is a PERSONAL STATEMENT, so even if being gay isn't the only way you describe yourself, it might come across that way to adcoms if that's what you decide to write about. Make sure the focus of the essay is on what you've learned, what you could bring to the university, etc., not simply about how badly you've had it because you're gay (though I don't get the feeling that was your intention anyway). I am not going to discourage you from applying. Personally, I agree that being gay is a sin, but, like they say, hate the sin, not the sinner. I know many lesbians who are great people, much greater than some non-lesbians. If this student has something to offer the university, he should apply. As a rising senior in high school, I look forward to meeting someone of his courage in college. Isn't it adversity that is supposed to make us stronger, anyway?</p>
<p>OP, please do keep in mind though that not everyone at ND will be as forgiving as some on this thread. More than anything, you will be the one being challenged for your beliefs, even if you'd like to think it will be the other way around. It is probably the most conservative university in the country, save a few, and you have a very liberal "issue." If you love the university, by all means apply. But do keep in mind that you will be more warmly accepted at various other universities. That being said, I know there will be students at ND who will become great friends to you, whether or not they agree with your sexual orientation.</p>
<p>caliboy, im a freshman at ND and i hope you come here and find it to be a welcoming and enjoyable place. you can see that while many people on here will discriminate no matter what, there are lots of others, including myself, that would have absolutely no problem with you being gay. unfortunately, i heard of a freshman with a gay roommate who says he has a problem with it, and that really upset me. so i guess there will always be people like that, but i have talked to plenty of others who seem to be really accepting.</p>
<p>Having just returned from Frosh-O, I would like to point out that the position of the University is EXTREMELY crystal clear--NONE of their students should be engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage. ALL are expected to be chaste regardless of sexual orientation. </p>
<p>For that reason, OP, I would pick another subject for your essay. At ND the emphasis is on the intellectual, spiritual, social and emotional development necessary to transform adolescents into fully formed adults. Your sexual orientation is one aspect of this journey, but please don't fall into the trap many young gay people do and think that it somehow defines you or makes you who you are--it is just one aspect of you. </p>
<p>There is a lot of downside to focusing on sexual orientation in the essay, and I can't see any particular benefit, so why do it?</p>