Hi Folks,
My Daughter is on a great program which will help with US admissions and even take her on a tour of selected Colleges on the East Coast.
The basic dilemma is this:
She thinks Brown will suit her, and so do I.
She thinks Harvard is ‘The best University in the world’ and so if she did not apply on early decision ‘I could regret this for the rest of my life’.
Nobody has heard of Brown this side of the pond but everybody has head of Harvard, Princeton, Yale and MIT.
We do what I consider a very wrong thing in the UK - general education finishes at 16 with some subjects being dropped at 14! then you specialise in three ‘A’ level subjects (only) from 16-18.
She is a Humanities/Social Sciences girl.
She gave up French (only foreign language) at 14, and she does not excel at Maths and Physics (her only ‘not perfect’ scores by 16)
Her extra curricular CV is Stellar even for the US (Universities in the UK don’t take much account of anything other than academics) and her academic’s are top .1%
As I understand it so far.
Brown
+Open Curriculum (The opportunity to ‘fail’ trying some new things)
No Foreign language (She is mildly dyslexic so this is a real challenge)
Liberal student body
(The UK is what most American’s would consider very liberal, politically and socially.)
Competition balanced by cooperation.
Less money (It would cost her about $5k a year)
Nobody in Europe has heard of it.
Harvard
Best University for Social sciences/humanities in the world only rivalled by Cambridge.
International prestige
Everything will be paid for including flights - (so quite literally free for her).
‘Cut throat’ competition (The epitome of US competitive culture)
French and maths with the Core curriculum requirements.
For those knowing what they want to do (she doesn’t).
Any thoughts? baring in mind I’ve only just learnt terms like Sophomore, Greek life, and Concentration.
Thanks.
She is trying to decide on ‘THE ONE’ College you can put down for ‘early decision’ and as an International student this (so she has been told) will make a major difference to her being accepted. She has a 50/50 + chance according to her school of getting into Cambridge ((there is always a large risk factor with Oxford and Cambridge as there are with US top Colleges - very similar in that respect) and with her immensely strong extra-curricular CV (international level awards and more) her chances of success at an Ivy League are also very high… nowhere near certain as she is not an Olympic athlete as well, so I’m not underestimating the difficulty of getting in.
Well, unless she is already world famous for some extraordinary achievement, her chances are not 50 50, more like 10 percent. From what u describe, brown is the better fit.
This is about the Early Decision choice where you can only put down one and are then committed to not accepting any other offers or even doing general/regular application.
This is a very rough estimate but she qualifies for the highest level of ‘need’ at both Colleges.
Harvard have just been unimaginably generous to other UK students in her position.
You are an international student. Harvard and Brown both have acceptance rates for international students that are under 10%. This means 90% or more get rejected from these colleges. Think about that before you put all your eggs in the Harvard and Brown baskets.
Brown is need aware for admissions also which means your level of financial need will be considered when the application is reviewed. So…if you are a high needs family, this won’t help you at Brown.
Don’t just apply to colleges in the U.S. because those are the only ones you have heard of…and are considered elite. Most of these reject the vast majority of applicants. Craft a more well rounded list.
There is NO SUCH THING as a sure thing for admission for an international student…anywhere…is she an Olympic gold medalist? That might help.
Harvard is very generous with fin aid if your income qualifies, and you dont have assets. But you need to realize that chances of acceptance are low. From what u describe, no language requirement is important. Harvard students are largely liberal too, so that is not so much of an issue. If she gets in, and you qualify for fin aid, Brown will give decent aid too.
Can you provide more details about this program?
Is this a college admissions counseling service? Are they helping you pick US colleges, helping with essays, etc?
Her chances are ‘high’ for Brown or Harvard, 50/50+ for Cambridge.
Globally Cambridge ranks top in the world with Harvard second doing Human Social and Political Sciences. Cambridge doesn’t care much about extra-curriculars or even references, they are both more of a footnote to the application, from what I understand extra-curriculars are very important to top US colleges and this is where she stands out.
In US terms - imagine if one of her references was from a congressman and she sat on National Committees with Senators - we are talking that level - hence I’m saying her chances are high.
But the real question is Brown or Harvard for ‘Early Decision’ not her chances.
I’m going to say…so what? Having a high level person write you a letter of reference might get your application reviewed by admissions. It won’t guarantee an admission.
What does the rest of her application look like….SAT or ACT scores (these help international students if good). Grades and high school curriculum?
Harvard is not ED, it’s restricted early action. You can still only apply to either Harvard or brown early, but with REA, if accepted, you’re not obliged to attend. REA at Harvard gives no admission boost, theoretically.
Also, since brown is need-aware for international applicants, such applications are often deferred to RD.
From an aid perspective, while both are great, Harvard’s historically has been better
I think the reason people are talking about chances is because they don’t want you to waste an ED.
In my amateur opinion, if a student had a recommendation from a congressperson and was on a committee, that might raise their chances at Harvard/Brown but it would be something like to 30% from 3%.
I did say in the OP - top .1% so competitive academically.
We do not do GPA we do E-A and she is A* (A+). US Universities are aware of how our academics work.
Again I’m not looking at chances I’m looking at which of the two should be put down for early decision.
I think your opinion of Harvard is not quite correct. Harvard is more flexible than you imagine. Students enter Harvard all the time as “undecided” students and explore the curriculum. And American universities (and especially well-funded ones) have many academic supports for students. So your daughter not being tippy-top in foreign language, maths and physics will not be a problem. So unless your daughter actively despises these subjects, don’t worry about any distribution (core) requirements. It is true that Brown has a more flexible curriculum in comparison to Harvard, but both are very flexible in comparison to UK universities, from what I understand.
ETA: Also the competitive culture of elite American universities depends a lot on the major. If a student is planning medical school, or finance, or some other competitive career, yes there will be a competitive culture (this is true at Brown as well.) But if your student is a classics major, or a poet, or some other major not aiming for top money, the vibe will be much more collaborative.