UMich - CSP - What is this?

<p>Momsdream--thanks for reporting on the phone call. I do feel better now :)</p>

<p>Susan, I have on file for my son a letter from the admissions office of the University of Michigan requesting an academic midyear report from my son's school. This is despite a letter preceding this that invited him to audition from the school of music. The admissions office letter said that he would be considered for admissions in the spring cycle after receipt of this mid year report which I consider an academic deferral though those words appear no where in the letter. My son is not the only one in this situation. My friend's son also auditioned and got a the same letter, identical. However two weeks to the day afterthe audition, they also got a letter from the school of music which rejected the young man from the MT program which , of course ended that whole situation. The assistant director of the school of music did say that this does occaisionally occur--that though the applicant is cleared for by academic review to audition, he is not fully cleared academically for admissions, as this question did come up in the afternoon organ room session when she addressed the parents, according to my friend. She did not ask the question; someone else did, so I assume the two of us were not the only ones in that situation. I could not stay for that session--was there for just a few minutes before leaving so I did not hear the question asked. In our case, it could have been an issue, as S did not do well for the midyear. This could have been an issue for any number of schools as Emerson also requested a midyear report, and I assume all of the RD schools would need one. However, none of the other rolling schools, nor Yale asked for the Midyear report, so he has the rest of the year to bring up his grades. I did talk to someone in admissions--not the music school admissions, and they told me that the average gpa from last year was over a 3.7, and they get antsy around the 3.4 line, especially if the grades are inconsistent, and they rarely accept under a 3.0. I will say that I was impressed that a university of this size is able to take the time to look individually at each transcript and fine tune it this way. I will also say that there was some doubt on passing the academic review as we did not get notification of the audition until the week before the audition date which really had us scrambling to make arrangements and we paid through the nose as a result. But we were also very, very early in getting the app to them--Sept 15, and most schools do tend to be a bit more generous in the beginning of the admissions cycle, and take more care looking at each application in detail. I assure you there was a request for midyear report, and it was not a form with a stamped name, but a full page letter explaining exactly what they wanted and where the process would go next in the admissions office. The letter wanted the grades before March 1 and said that a final decision would be made by mid-April and is signed by a Senior Admissions Counselor, Mara Flamenbaum--(just pulled the letter from the file which I realized is right next to me where I am currently sitting).</p>

<p>Momsdream, I don't think you have to worry about your son being placed into courses that are below his level. Usually they hone into the specific course taken and may even require a departmental exam. Prep school kids have an excellent track record at college, and that is something all schools I have known take into account. My oldest son had trouble despite an inconsistent gpa in taking lower level courses in math and foreign language which was to his detriment as he was not in the posititon to do well in those courses that the school set to his level. Depending on the type of classes the kid is taking overall, it does not hurt to repeat or overlap some courses, especially if they are not the kid's forte. Advanced math and science classes can put the kids in with those majoring in the subject and some of those kids are taking a level down. If your student is a real academic go getter, that is one thing, but if he has other things on his agenda, I woudl not be in a big hurry to push him up a level in the courses. My friend actually petitioned to get her son into one of these summer courses at Ohio Universtiy because they included time management and study skill classes that he had never officially been taught and she felt he needed them as he came from a school with highly inflated gpas. I would not mind such a course for any of my kids.</p>

<p>My sons are URM's and both the younger ones were accepted to Umich. Neither one of them was offered this program. So apparently it's not offered automatically to any URM. The only difference I saw going through the application process was that they were both recruited by Umich while friends with the same GPA's and test scores were not. They were, however, admitted.</p>

<p>Momsdream, your story about the housing brought a smile, I'd didn't mean to suggest that he had, just the apparent "funneling" reminded me of those housing tales from last summer. I'm glad to hear he is not interested in affinity housing, while we are white, I can understand how difficult adjustment could be for a young black person in a predominantly white institution, but we aren't getting anywhere in this country without dialog, education and acceptance, and I can't see how affinity housing can be anything but segregating - have special programs, speakers, perhaps a special "space" to socialize with black or Latino or whatever friends, but come back to live in the dorm - confront misconceptions and make us a better country.
[She steps off the soapbox, and wipes her brow]
The affinity housing was something I didn't like about Dartmouth - gosh darn it, one of things I'm going to pay all that money for is her opportunity to get to know as many people from everywhere and everyhow that she possibly can.</p>

<p>Hmm, Jamimom. Maybe everyone who got on the "maybe" pile after the audition, had to submit mid year grade reports at UM (talking only now of BFA candidates). I know the admissions counselor at the presentation on the Jan. audition day said that in 2-4 weeks, kids would hear either "admit", "deny" or "maybe" , the latter being that they cannot fill the class of 20 until after they see all the auditions by March 11 and so they hold a "maybe" pile until then. I wonder, since your son made the "maybe" pile, if at that point, they request a mid year grade report for anyone on that pile or if it was just on an individual basis. I'll be happy if my daughter even makes the maybe pile. In any case , for now, they have no mid year grade report form in their application materials. </p>

<p>As far as Emerson, during the Early Action phase, they asked for a grade report at that early date from senior year so it was only first marking period grades. I have talked to my daughter about submitting another grade report (our own choice, not asked for) after this marking period. Report cards came out today, and I have yet to see hers but will in about a half hour when I get her from rehearsal and head out of town for ballet. I think if it went up since the first marking period, we could send it along. Then again, she is already admitted to Emerson so I guess that is a moot point on the academic front? She is only waiting on the BFA program admittance. And the admissions officer told me she stood out on the pile academically (she actually applied for Honors College there but does not find out that piece until a later date). Ironically, at the two colleges on her list where the academic piece is on a higher scale, UMich and NYU (coincidentally top choices), neither have a mid year grade report and so my harping on how grades this fall will REALLY matter, is now being laughed at by her because we just discovered no mid year grade report required at these two schools. Ha. But I did not know that and maintained all semester how important her grades were this year. Wouldn't ya know. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>NSM, I didn't see your post until just now. I bet the GPAs are to blame. I hope so.</p>

<p>Momsdream,
Why is your S getting info from Mich.? Didn't he have to withdraw all apps after his Penn acceptance?</p>

<p>I can also tell you that we did not get anything from the School of Music until recently, as a maybe, well after the 4 weeks, but that was probably because of the holidays. Also just looking at this letter right now, something I did not initially notice (which shoots down your theory) the "deferal" from the Office of Undergraduate Admissions is dated November 5 which is BEFORE the date of the letter extending the audition invitation. And we did not get that letter until AFTER the audition, otherwise I would have had more questions to ask at the audition. So they could not have sent the letter as a deferral from the audition since he was not even invited to audition when the letter was written. I think he was borderline in the gpa area, but because he was a school of music candidate, they gave him a pass on the grades. I do know that when we talked to Northwestern where he applied as a voice major (in order to be in position to audition for their program the following year), they did say that they gave music students more leeway in gpa and testscores. Now he won't be auditoning--his audition date was this month, but that was the situation there. Though music is not the hook that athletics is, the schools do tend to give some leeway. I know Syracuse and CMU say that an outstanding audition could mitagate some borderline academic profiles. And though I have read that NYU goes half and half, academic and auditions, I know some kids in the 1100-1200 SAT range that got in. However, I doubt anyone with low grades did. Though many kids from S's school apply to NYU, the counselor here told me that they do not get an academic pass for grades even with rigor and steep grading curve. They really look at the gpa and if you are hovering at the 3.0 level, it's going to be tough to get into NYU even with high SATs, and coming from a top school. The page in my S's school's college book shows this clearly. Kids with low grades even with high SATs are not getting into NYU from this school, whereas at a number of schools more leeway is given.</p>

<p>We ignored the request for grades from Emerson, deciding to hold out for MidYear in case they asked again, and since he was not going EA, they were not going to hold up anything. We know a bunch of kids who were accepted there, but don't know what kind of acceptance, as S did not know that there could be this dual thing going on there. His friend whose mother I know, so that is a fairly reliable source of info, says that he is waitlisted--period. No fat envelope, no splitting between MT program or college. Just plain old waitlisted for the whole ball of wax. He had indicated on his app that he would also consider the Acting program, but my son says that they told his group, the first ones to audition, that they were not going to be accepting kids for that as a second choice even though the choice is indicated on the app, and the Emerson rep said this was a choice. My theory (and opinion only) is that they got enough kids applying for the acting option as a first choice that they do not have to back into the MT stack. But, you know, there are always exceptions to the rule, these things are not written in stone. The process is holistic, and if they find someone they really want as an actor, I wouldn't bet a dime that they would not take him for the acting program even if he indicated that he was MT. I have found that even the written policies have exceptions. It is disconcerting to me, as I like to go by the rules and know exactly what to do, especially in an uncertain environment, but that is just the way it is. </p>

<p>You're lucky that your daughter is a good student as that is one part of the process that you do not have to sweat. I do not feel home free yet, as knowing that my son is perfectly capable of blowing his grades. We were actually considering graduating him a semester early if he got decent mid term grades and packing him off somewhere so he would not get into trouble or ruin his grades, since all schools want that end of the year report. H felt we would recoup some of the money he cost us last year and with the very expensive audition process this year, cuz you know we did most of all the auditions before mid December. He could work and earn some money for college as far as he was concerned. But as it stands, he is still in school, and we just hope he doesn't do something foolish. From your description of your daughter, it is doubtful her grades would sink to such a level, and with the MT major, there is some grade and SAT leeway. Not to say that having high grades and high SATs does not help; even if it is only a 1% consideration, with all of these talented kids out there, that 1% could be the tip factor. You are fortunate to have that edge. We met some kids with high grades, but low SATS and vice versa, and I know that could hurt the kids' chances as the whole picture is assessed. </p>

<p>Ironically, the voice program at UMich has more than a 20% accept rate--for classical voice. The music school acceptance stats overall are no where nearly as intimidating as the MT program which is by far the most selective program in the school of music. At the onset of all of this, I would have guessed that the voice program would have been more selective, given the quality of voice needed to go into performance, opera, but that is not the case. </p>

<p>I think given what you have said about your D and her academic record, she will get into several programs, and if it comes down to it and Emerson becomes her first choice and she writes and tells them that, they would find a space for her in the MT program. I don't think that is an option to exercise at this point as it is not her first choice, and I think she has good possibilities in a number of schools that will let her know on a rolling basis. I doubt if she will have to wait till April to know where she stands. There are some kids, however, who are not in such good stead, and they probably should be looking at some nonaudition safeties while the deadlines are still not passed so that they are not scrambling in April. </p>

<p>Funny, just read a book, "Prep" where the main character is a girl at a top boarding school with lousy grades, needs financial aid, and the counselor recommends her to UMich where she ends up. Anyone who has dealt with UMich would spot a wooden nickle here. Not from Michigan, her chances for aid would be zilch even if she is needy, and with poor grades, even from a top east coast prep school, she would not get in.</p>

<p>Sorry to others as this was not the topic of the original thread but just responding to Jamimom....</p>

<p>Jamimom....I understand a bit better some of the logistics that have occurred at Emerson and UM with your son as his situation is different than my own child's. With UM, I am not sure I completely understand your son's initial situation. How did he even get an audition date without having "passed" academic review? The way it worked for my child and everyone else she knows and what we were told directly from a one hour one on one appointment with the head of admissions for the music school back in Sept. ....is that at UM, first you must "pass" academic review by both the regular UM admissions office and then the School of Music also reviews the application and they only invite kids to audition who can get into UM academically. In fact, I forget the total number who applied for BFA in MT at UM but it might be at least 500 but may be 600 but only 350 have been invited to audition. At the audition, Brent Wagner (head of MT program) congratulated everyone for making it this far, or in other words, for passing academic review and being invited to audition. I don't quite get what happened in your son's case with getting an academic "deferral" but then being given an audition date. So, maybe the request for midyear grades there has to do with that end of things. In my D's case, she is sorta past the academic hurdle at UM but getting in past the BFA one where they are taking only 20 kids from the 350 who audition (accepting 12 girls and 12 boys for 10 girl and 10 boy slots) will be nearly impossible I think. Not great odds. </p>

<p>The point you were making about Syracuse and CMU giving leeway on the academics for kids applying for the BFA....you are correct at most of the BFA programs, academics will not matter nearly to the extent as the audition will. At CMU, I know that 90% rides on the audition and 10% of the decision on academics. At most of these programs, the academics just must be over a certain level which is not that difficult of a bar. However, the exceptions to that are UM and NYU, which ironically are favorites of my D's. Actually I would not say that is ironic because she likes that these two schools put a value on the liberal arts component and want good students and she does care about that too. Anyway, at NYU, admissions is 50% academics and 50% audition. That's the only one like that. But as mentioned with UM, you must pass academic review to even be allowed to audition. And UM is not that easy of a school to get into. Those were the only two schools on her list where I felt academics was really going to matter, given her academic and test profile, etc. </p>

<p>When you mention not sending the quarter grades to Emerson, I did not realize your son was not an EA candidate there. I just thought whoever auditioned there in fall was for EA, as those were the EA audition dates. My D, as you know, did the early action there as it was the only school to offer it and we figured she would get one audition done before the holidays, leaving the seven others over a seven week span this winter (already causing major conflicts with the her musical rehearsals and dance troupe rehearsals that we are having to deal with, big pain). So, we had to send the quarter grades to them back in Nov. as an EA candidate. I guess the midyear ones are irrelevant there if she is admitted to the school already and they did not ask for them. </p>

<p>Regarding the whole BFA in MT or BFA in Acting at Emerson, my D only applied for BFA in MT so it is not like if she did not get that, they were putting her in BFA for Acting. As I told you another time, I never even knew they had this "split decision" thing she got of the acceptance to the college but deferred for the BFA until all auditions are done. I am not even sure what they mean for her to study there if she did not get into the BFA in MT (not that she is considering that) and am guessing BA in Theater Studies? A very good friend from our HS, the only other kid applying to BFA programs in MT, got what my D got at Emerson (this girl is first or second in the senior class I think), seems thrilled with the Emerson acceptance and is going there even without knowing what will happen yet with the BFA decision. She has stopped auditioning. She had applied ED to Tisch for musical theater but was denied. </p>

<p>Thanks for the vote of confidence with regard to my daughter and her process but I don't think her academic record is gonna mean the difference in getting into these schools because for most of them, most of it rides on the audition and the acceptance rate is insane. Also, by the way, I have never really written about her "academic record". She is a good student, takes the hardest classes and has accelerated. She is not at the very tippy top like my other daughter, in terms of GPA and rank. She does have good SAT scores, only 30 points behind her sister though had to take them in 10th grade a year younger than her sister did. However, these scores are definitely good enough for any school on her list and two of her SAT2 test scores are very high but NYU was the only school who recommended those so that likely means nothing at any other school. Frankly, the academic piece is not what worries me. Though, I have not been certain she could get in academically at NYU or UM but passed that hurdle at UM. I think academically she should be able to get into NYU/Tisch and has friends who have done so with lower stats. But again, the audition part is the kicker. I am confident in her audition skills and talents and think she is an appropriate candidate to be trying for these difficult programs, but even with that, it is not like I don't believe in her but more like a big concern that there are so few slots and many many talented kids out there and so it will be very difficult to get in. It is what it is. I thought Ivy league or elite college admissions was tough (and it certain is, much like a crapshoot if you have the "goods") but these odds are more difficult and to top it off, there is a lot of subjectivity based on several minutes of an in person audition. I know they know what they are looking for but it does boggle my mind that so much rides on so few minutes and they never see the kid's body of work or on stage and stuff. Thankfully my child does not get nervous in auditions but I could never do what she is doing, talent wise or this degree of self confidence. Even so, she is fully aware that it will be very difficult to get in. The saving grace is that she knows many friends who have successfully been admitted so there is hope. </p>

<p>I don't totally agree with you on the academic piece with these BFA programs as far as kids who don't have the academics needing some non-BFA safeties. I think it is more that the kids not at the top of the heap on the talent end definitely need non-BFA safeties. The academic will just keep out students who are not that great of a student. My D has a friend who last year got a NFAA Merit Award like she just got and he did not get into Emerson (or elsewhere) and was told it was due to academics but he admits he was NOT a good student AT ALL. He is very talented on stage. Most recently, I saw him play Sweeney in Sweeney Todd. But for an above average student, academics won't be keeping them out of these programs. I know kids who have gotten into Tisch without stellar academic profiles. I would think a kid coming out of your elite prep school, even though it is harder to get As, would have their transcript looked at in context but I don't know. Your son has great test scores so that also would have kept him in the running at these programs. Afterall, Yale took him and that is not an audition based school and it rode on his academic profile so if Yale took him, these other programs would have on the academic side. I can't recall which of the BFA programs he is still keeping in the pot. I think you said CMU and he is trying for Julliard? For acting or voice? My D never considered Juilliard because you have to focus on only one area, classical voice, dance, or acting and she wants to do MT. But she has a friend from her summer program who got into lots of BFA programs in MT but chose Acting at Juilliard and is there now. She also knows a boy from her summer program who went with her when she was younger who is there now for dance. </p>

<p>Anyway, I'll be glad when this process is over. I pray a place works out. It is nutty explaining it to anyone not familiar with the process. I mean if I knew nothing about this and heard someone had 8 schools with a 5 % admit rate, I would say they were crazy. I don't know BFA MT programs that are much easier than this so there are no safeties unless you are willing to forego this type of program and apply to a regular college degree. She has not chosen to do that and so I hope out of 8 tries, at least one clicks. Even better, it would be great if it were from one of her favorites but we don't wanna hope too much. It is very difficult when people you know say she will get into lots of these but they really don't understand the slim odds and that very talented kids are turned away. I mean if they take 10 girls as they do in many of these programs (some take even less), she fits a certain type and I gotta figure they maybe have just a couple slots for that type. It seems like the kids we run into at auditions are also very talented and experienced and trained. Just the kids we personally know who are auditioning for these programs are a very talented and accomplished bunch. That is what makes me nervous about it. It is not really that I am nervous about my kid, but more about the process/odds. But that is what this field is like so ya go with the flow.
Susan</p>

<p>The Michigan saga had me worried as well because others had long gotten their pass on the academic review before we did. In fact, I remember your D had gotten her e-mail and we had not yet gotten word,when S had sent in his app on 9/15. Though his letter from Laura Strozeski is dated 11/8, we did not get it until just before the audition date, and the e-mail came just before. I remember calling to confirm because I was a bit concerned. The "deferred" letter from admissions was dated prior to the audition clearance letter--I am looking at both right now, and really never noticed the date of the deferral letter before, and it long predateds the audition but we did not get it until after the audition. Strange? Yep. Not that it matters anymore. And, yes, our school does not get much of a break academically from NYU. Neither does Choate, Rosemary Hall as I know a couple of kids who did not get in there with good gpas, good SATs, but the gpa was not 3.5. Now they were not Tisch kids, but even Tisch does look at the gpas carefully, and they certainly are not the school bringing down the average at NYU. Now I have seen some lower end SATs get into Tisch with good grades, and assume that there are enough high level ones to offset. The girls I know who are in Tisch (3 of them) were all good students but did not get 1300 on the SAT1s. </p>

<p>You did not have to apply EA to Emerson to audition early. They did have on the app that if you are applying EA, that the first dates should be picked for auditions, but the converse is not true. S could not apply EA or ED because he applied SCEA to Yale which precluded those options. But there are a number of schools that are rolling in acceptances and he took advantage of that. And he took the early audition dates for Syracuse and CMU so that he could get all of the auditions done as soon as possible. A good thing too, as he is in two productions right now and ,as it is, the Juillard auditions are a problem. He had to send in a tape for the voice, and made that cut--the acting was just getting the app in , but he had to send in two apps and two fees as the audition fee is the app fee for Juilliard. He has always wanted to do this, so these are the last auditions he will do. He has kept in an app for CMU as well, since he would have applied ED or EA to them if they had that option. Don't know why they have this early audition date so ahead of the other audition dates, but they do. S did 7 auditions in 10 days-2 weekends including Fridays bookending a week. There are disadvantages of doing this, however, and I would hesitate to recommend this to anyone. First of all, you do learn from each audition and to clump them all like this does not allow the pieces to age and settle. You just keep making the same mistakes. Also things get very confusing. I don't think he remembers which is which in some cases, and I need to pull the file to refresh my memory. I have kept all of the paper work in file folders. S has sent a postcard to the schools where he is not going to go so that he does not take up a space when he does not intend to go. There was some discussion about that as we have paid for the audition, he has gone through all of the paces and trouble, and he has the right to keep his options open as he is not violating any early rules, but the problem with these programs is that just because they may send out, say 40 acceptances for 25 places, it does not mean that they simply send out another accept if someone declines. They have a built in decline rate. And so in a sense, you are holding up a space, though when you do not withdraw an app, though you do have the right to do so. But the only school that we feel he should keep open is the state university as it is close enough to commute should he have to stay at home, Juilliard and CMU. Though he was accepted at State U, he did not get into the honors program, nor did he get a dime of merit money, I might add. The class rank and gpa were not there. It could not possibly be because of the test scores, I am sure. So, I can tell you that even going to a prep school does not offset the gpa at many state programs. He has not been offered any merit aid anywhere with very high SATs. And the gpa is not really that low, it's not a 3.5, it's not weighted, it's not even calculated, but it is inconsistent from sophomore year though an excellent pattern of improvement. </p>

<p>Didn't mean to hijack this thread, but it is somewhat relevant in that we have had some unusual correspondence with UMich as well ,though S was not referred to the CSP program. But I think Momsdream's son has a gpa that is not compatible with Michigan's way of computing it, but they do recognize it is from an out of state rigorous school, but do not quite know how they want to compute it. As mentioned before, we are not the only one caught in this situation as a friend of mine got the same letters, but I don't know about the dates on hers---didn't think to ask as I just noticed this on ours. Not a big deal, I would think. There are a number of things that have occured during this application journey that are not according to the book, and this is really a minor thing. There are exceptions to nearly every rule, and we fell into one. It did confuse me as I too understood the policy to be that if you are cleared academically to auditon, then you don't have to worry about the admissions office. But I can assure you that this was an exception and not the only one this cycle. From the info, again, in S's school's college book, Michigan is not particularly generous in the gpa range to his school. No admissions deals in the last 5 years from them. So, I am surprised that they bent for MT kids. </p>

<p>The problem with "talent" is that it is difficult to tell who has it and who does not for these purposes. You can call and get some feedback from them, and if the kid has a real issue, they will let you know. But if your student is just deferred, not rejected, there really is not much they have to say, other than he/she is in the ballpark but they want to see what else is out there this year. Clearly S did not catch Michigan's eye as a "gotta have". And the letter from the Admissions office could not be clearer. Had we decided to go further with this or had S been accepted, I would have delved into it more as a contradiction in original terms, but for S, it is really not relevant. But, yes, this situation can and did occur. And his Midyear grades are not going to tide anyone over, unfortunately. </p>

<p>The nice thing about Michigan is that it has the name appeal whereas a number of S's choices did not. I am afraid that did influence him, as did the visits to those schools and the contrast between them and a full fledged university with lots of amenities. And though it has been a couple of weeks since S sent out postcards withdrawing apps, we are still getting material from the schools, so it is no big deal that Momsdream did get this program information even if her son did withdraw his app. Don't think we got anything from Michigan though. Lots of stuff from some of the other schools. I know a lot of the kids who are accepted ED from S's school who have not sent out their notifications, as I saw a bulletin from college counseling reminding students of this obligation.</p>

<p>Jamimom, your "saga" at UM surely is interesting and a bit out of the ordinary of the "usual" process. Congrats to your son for making the cut to be asked to audition at Juilliard. He obviously has the singing talent! </p>

<p>Yes, UM (or NYU) of the colleges with BFA in MT, are more "name" schools outside of musical theater. That is true of Carnegie Mellon too. But some of the top BFA programs are not in "name" schools as much and so I find myself having to explain to folks who ask where my D is applying, that though the college name might sound like she could get in easily academically, that the admit rate for the BFA program there is a whole different ball of wax. What is a "name" school in the musical theater world is not necessarily a "name" to the general public in the college world, not that it matters but just is a fact. </p>

<p>Also by the way, it is funny but all these years, I presumed your son goes to Choate and apparently NOT! LOL </p>

<p>Anyway, you guys are kinda done this auditions game and are sitting pretty on the Yale admit and that is a real nice place to be. My D only applied to BFA progams but that is all she wants to do, though looks forward to also taking the liberal arts classes that can be taken as part of her degree. I think she likes the programs where you can study 25% in liberal arts and that is appealing. </p>

<p>I guess the fact that some programs are accepting several more kids than they have slots for (as not all will matriculate), that does mean more chances, and I should keep that in mind. But some programs, like UM, they barely take extras. They told us they will only accept two extra boys and two extra girls beyond the ten slots of each sex, because their yield is so high. They then will have a very teeny tiny waitlist just in case the ten slots do not fill with the 12 admits. Don't wanna think about those odds. </p>

<p>Your son seems like such a good candidate, even if his grades are not as good as they could be. He has the smarts obviously and the high SATs. He is attending a very challenging elite prep school. He is well trained and experienced in musical theater. And he is active in other areas like football. I mean he has the package!~ </p>

<p>What shows is he rehearsing now, unless you don't wanna say. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>NSM, yes, that is what I was saying on the "Parents Decisions" thread. He did send a postcard to them. Then he received the acceptance letter. I've read that others have had the same thing happen. No biggie, as they now know the situation. Other than Penn, he only applied to UMich and PSU - and he has heard from them both now...so that's it. Luckily, neither of those acceptances came with scholarship offers...not that we would have been tempted away from Penn.....but I just don't want to know about any "full rides" or the sort!</p>

<p>maybe that's a good strategy for ED parents.....tell the postman to deflect any college mail from schools other than the ED choice. Mark it all "Address Unknown, Return to Sender!". Then you'll never know :)</p>

<p>My son continues to get mail from schools he withdrew from after getting in ED. He sent a letter out 12/16 to all other schools withdrawing his apps - but it seems to be taking a while to get recorded. One school called for his SAT's last week, and yesterday he got a letter chasing for another piece of his app from another school. He's calling a bunch of schools today to make sure they have noted the withdrawal.</p>

<p>It is not unusual at all for one department to not know what another department has done. Especially at a large university. My second son went to a recruitment event at Umich and was called a week later from the same department saying "although we can't guarantee admission, we really think you should apply." He told them he would, but he had already been accepted.</p>

<p>Son #3 was at a recruiting event at the same school when the host asked them what it would take to get them to attend the University. One of the students replied "admit us". Apparently host thought it was a group of admitted students.</p>

<p>The other thing that can add to the confusion is that the deferral, at Michigan, is really just a courtesy thing. </p>

<p>Many students take it to mean "You're very iffy for admission." But what it really means is "We haven't yet decided whether or not we'll be accepting students with your profile. We just don't want you wondering if your file was lost, ignored, or had fallen through the cracks." U-M may end up taking some, even many, of the students who were sent deferral letters earlier in the season. It all depends.</p>

<p>So it's possible to get the courtesy deferral letter and still be fairly positively recruited by individual units.</p>

<p>Jamimom....
I'm late in reading this discussion...so this comment goes a way back in the discussion....but I need to ask....you said...</p>

<p>"Ironically, the voice program at UMich has more than a 20% accept rate--for classical voice. The music school acceptance stats overall are no where nearly as intimidating as the MT program which is by far the most selective program in the school of music. At the onset of all of this, I would have guessed that the voice program would have been more selective, given the quality of voice needed to go into performance, opera, but that is not the case. "</p>

<p>I wonder who quoted you this 20% statistic from Michigan? In a general meeting with Laura Strozeski at U of M during audition weekend, she told our group that "slightly less" than 350 students would audition for Vocal Performance. They would choose 8 from each of the 5 voice types for admittance. Unless my math is really bad, this is no where near 20%. Say, for example 325 students constituted "slightly less" than 350. 20 percent of 325 is 65 students. If we use 325 as the number of students auditioning, and they choose 40 (8 x 5 voice types= 40) then it's more like 12%. </p>

<p>But maybe you have better information than me. I AM interested as my D is waiting to hear about admittance to U of M in VP and MT. Any info you can share is appreciated!</p>

<p>musicalthtrmom,</p>

<p>Are you taking yield into account? Do they really make only 8 admits per voice type, or are they trying to enroll 8 students per voice type? Becuase if they want to enroll 8 of each type, they will admit a larger number than that, because not all who are admitted will enroll.</p>

<p>momsdream and cangel,
I wanted to comment on the discussion on the other thread and here regarding the incoming black Stanford freshman who was was upset at being assigned to the African-American theme dorm. There are four of these "theme" dorms at Stanford - African-American, Asian, Hispanic, and Native American. Stanford' policy is that at least half of the students in these dorms are from ethnic backgrounds other than the ethnic group which is the theme for that dorm. My son, a Stanford junior who is white, took part in an away-from-campus Stanford quarter during the fall and was assigned to the African-American theme dorm, Ujamaa, when he returned. (He is having a great time in his dorm so far, in spite of numerous unrelated problems and stress he is dealing with relating to returning to Stanford in the middle of the school year.) I know of several freshman who were assigned to theme dorms who are not from the "theme" ethnic group of that dorm, so I am not sure that the incoming student who was complaining about it was correct in thinking that he or she was assigned because of his/her race. I think that perhaps very few students may put this down as one of their choices, so any student who lists it, even as a last choice, may have a high chance of being assigned to one of these. Another factor is that these "theme" dorms are coed, and the incoming freshmen can request a single-sex hall, as my son did. Perhaps students who request coed dorms in general have a chance of being assigned to the "theme" dorms.</p>

<p>Hoedown....
She didn't discuss yield in terms of VP auditions...she DID discuss it in terms of MT auditions. And said in MT they might accept a "couple" more than what they hope will accept (planning for 10, accept 12) but not more than that because most people DO accept...sometimes ALL...so they won't ask many more than they want. I suspect it's the same with VP. Even figuring that in, I'd be surprised if it is 20%. Laura Strozeski used the same phrasing to describe your chances of being admitted to VP..."slightly" higher than your chances of being admitted to MT. When MT runs in the 5-8% range, 20% sounds out of balance with "slightly." </p>

<p>Let's face it...it's SUCH a crapshoot for all these music/theater kids. They deserve lots of credit for going for it amidst the odds!</p>