<p>Hard to find exact data but here is a posting from the college of LS&A on the UMich website. </p>
<p>"The College boasts more than 25 programs in the top five in the country, a top-ranked undergraduate research program, five straight years of record levels of private giving, and a talented, interesting group of faculty and students."</p>
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calicartel. Incorrect in who's eyes? Yours? If you look at department rankings, Michigan is a peer of every school that butchokoy mentioned. He failed to mentioned Northwestern, your school. That is also a peer of Michigan.
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Not in anyone's eyes but in the (relatively) objective department rankings. My post was in reference to his omission of Berkeley.
And for the record, "my" schools are UCLA (undergrad) and Kellogg/Northwestern (grad).</p>
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How's my post myopic? I mean, is there really a universally accepted fact that aside from HYPSM, there's a school in the US that is superior to UMich?
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I'd argue that overall, Cal has an edge over Michigan.</p>
<p>calicartel. I'd agree that Cal has an edge over Michigan. The reason butchokoy didn't bring Berkeley into the discussion originally is because his response to the previous statement didn't include Cal. He didn't omit Berkeley since it wasn't a point of discussion.</p>
<p>However, if you're interested in getting a top-notch undergraduate education, all of the top 15 schools on USNews are superior to Michigan. UMich pales with regards to class sizes, student to faculty ratio, advising, educational opportunities(research, study abroad and service learning), prestige, faculty resources, financial resources, selectivity, job placement, grad school placement, etc. etc in comparison to Penn or Columbia.</p>
<p>Generally, department rankings by themselves aren't really relevant when comparing the quality of the undergrad education received at a place. Sure, UMich's political science department is top-notch and probably top 3. But are you better off going to Michigan to study Political Science than Columbia, Penn or Duke? Probably not. The slight difference in faculty research and maybe accolades between these schools is more than enough compensated by the superior undergraduate education that places like Columbia and Penn provide.</p>
<p>If you're serious about studying a subject like Philosophy or Political Science, then you need to be studying in an environment surrounded by high-quality peers and in close proximity to your professors so discussion is better facilitated. Strong advising is also needed to guide you on the right educational path so you're enrolled in the right classes that fit your interests. Also, the opportunity to study abroad or do a research project will greatly broadens one's horizons in a field like Political Science. Many of the Ivies provide a better educational climate for this than Michigan.
This post is pathetic. The writer sounds so desperate to be an USNWR guru. Entirely a copy-cat idea. Every point supports convenience instead of academic excellence to its truest sense. Nothing new. Just a copy-cat of USNWR.
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<p>You are so delusuonal, everything this poster said is right. The straight up academic strength of a department is not the end all be all for rankings. Prestige matters, sat scores matter, acceptance rates matter, endowments matter. You make such a false and simplistic argument.</p>
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Wow, Berkeley is not better than these schools or let alone peers. They are much more selective, have on average better student bodies, bigger endowments, more prestige...should I go on? You are rediculous to think that after HYPSM no one school is better than the other, but then you assert that Berkeley is? In almost every ranking and by general consensus Penn, Duke and Columbia are the three best schools following after HYPS. </p>
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Another ridiculous statement. Penn/Columbia/Duke are undoubtedly more prestigious then Hopkins or Wash U or Rice or Northwestern. Dartmouth and Brown are absolutely more prestigious than emory or rice. Not only does your post contradict itself (saying Berkeley is best after HYPS), your post makes absurd claims. Butchokoy we know that you are gung ho for Berkeley, and I guess in this case all top publics....but the facts remain that they do not compete with the top 10 schools, but are solid top 20s. That is for a variety of factors, so please stop posting your contradictory generalizations.</p>
<p>Bescrase. PA of Berkeley is 4.8 Higher than all of the other schools that you mentioned. It really isn't a peer of them to be honest. It is better overall academically. Before this USNWR nonsense Berkeley and Michigan were both considered top 10 schools. Also butchokoy was careful to site, "academic prestige." That's irrefutable. No one can say that Cal's "academic prestige" is less than any of the schools that you have mentioned above. If you think that Berkeley takes a back seat academically to any other school after HYPSM, then you are the one who is mistaken.</p>
<p>"Another ridiculous statement. Penn/Columbia/Duke are undoubtedly more prestigious then Hopkins or Wash U or Rice or Northwestern. Dartmouth and Brown are absolutely more prestigious than emory or rice."</p>
<p>"In almost every ranking and by general consensus Penn, Duke and Columbia are the three best schools following after HYPS."</p>
<p>Bescraze, you are entitled to your opinion, as is anybody on this forum. I am sure a percentage of people would share your views on this subject and agree with your points. But what you write above is opinion, not fact. Most educated people would disagree with you. "By general consensus" Columbia, Duke and Penn are not the most prestigious universities after HYPS. You totally forget to mention schools like Cal, Caltech, Cornell, MIT etc... And Duke and Penn are not more prestigious than Johns Hopkins and Northwestern and Dartmouth is not more prestigious than Rice. That's your opinion, not the the consensus. </p>
<p>But I am not sure what any of those schools above have to do with Michigan. As the title of this thread clearly indicates and all the OP asked was to describe Michigan's (only Michigan's) reputation and compare it to other universities. Until you came along, nobody said Michigan's reputation was identical to Columbia, Duke or Penn. All that was said is that Michigan is a good university and that there are similarities between Michigan and other major research universities such as Cal, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn, UCLA and Wisconsin. It is a fact that there are similarities between all those schools. Whether or not one is better than the other, or equal, is a matter of opinion.</p>
<p>Before this debate started Alexandre called Penn a peer school and this is a statement by butchokoy.</p>
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UMich is a solid top 25 US school. (I would personally rank UMich in the top 15.) It's peer schools are Northwestern, JHU, Duke, Columbia, UPenn, UVa, Berkeley and Cornell.
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</p>
<p>I just feel that they are not peers by a lot of measures that count. From people I know that is the consensus, but maybe that is a small and select group. IDK for jobs that I know in say buisness like ibanking, I don't think Michigan compares in prestige. I never said its academic reputation is not great, but I just think for both Michigan and Berkeley, department strength does not = everything.</p>
<p>Bescraze, I did not use the term "peer" to describe Michigan and Penn in this thread, although according to academics, they are considered identical peers (they both get PA scores of 4.5 for undergraduate academics). Admitedly, I believe that Michigan and Penn are peers, otherwise, I would not have picked Michigan over Penn back in my day.</p>
<p>In the 15 years + that I have observed universities, the vast majority of people of influence (academics and highly qualified, successful and skilled professionals) would say that the schools I listed in my original post on this thread (Cornell University, Northwestern University, University of California-Berkeley, University of California-Los Angeles, University of Pennsylvania, University of Texas-Austin, University of Virginia, University of Wisconsin-Madison) are all similar to Michigan.</p>
<p>I agree that in Investment Banking circles, Penn has a better reputation than Michigan. Then again, Penn has a better reputation than any university save HYP where IBanks are concerned. I should know, I worked as an Investment Banker for 3 years and later on served as Director of HR for the largest Private Equity firm in the Middle East. But even then, Michigan is no pushover. If you compare Ross to Wharton undergrads, the ratio of students who join leading IBanks upon graduation (and starting salaries) are pretty comprable. I would give Penn a rating of A+ where IBanks are concerned and Michigan a rating of A. </p>
<p>In terms of overall prestige, it is really hard to say which school is more prestigious. All of those schools (Cal, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, JHU, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn) carry a great deal of weight. Be careful not to assume that people are going to respect one of those schools more than the others based solely on your experience and opinion.</p>
<p>University of Michigan- Ann Arobr is a great university. It's decent in just about every major, although I heard they are great in the science field. Similar schools to University of Michigan- Ann Arbor would be Michigan State University. MSU is also good in the science field. University of Michigan- Ann Arbor does has cons such as located near Detroit ( wouldn't want to live in Detroit nor the suburbs). The campus, I haven't exactly visited it yet, but it seems like it sorta odd.</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is on its own...a significant drive from Detroit and its suburbs. When you're in Ann Arbor, there is no indication that it's in the same galaxy as Detroit.</p>
<p>Actually Coolbreeze, although Michigan' science departments are all ranked among the top 15 in the nation and some (Engineering, Geology and Math) are ranked well among the top 10, Michigan's strength is its Social Sciences. </p>
<p>Anthropology, Political Science, Psychology and Sociology are all ranked among the top 3 in the nation and Economics is ranked around #10 in the nation. </p>
<p>Michigan is also very strong in Business (top 5 undergraduate program in the nation) and the Humanities (top 5 in the Classics, Foreign Languages, History and Philosophy and top 10 in English). </p>
<p>In short, Michigan isn't really known for the sciences. Perhaps you meant it is known for its Medical School and Hospitals and its Engineering programs, all of which are ranked among the top 10 in the nation.</p>
<p>I did mention that Techie1988. I stated that Michigan is strong in the sciences, and not just in Math. Michigan is also ranked among the top 10 in Engineering, Geology and Medicine. In the other sciences, (Biology, Chemistry, Computer Science and Physics), it is ranked between 10 and 15. All I was trying to say is that the school is not particularly known for the sciences.</p>