<p>You came here just to prove a point that has already been settled ages ago. Yes, the Ivies have better recruiting and higher pecking order among the WS firms. I have said that I had no problem with that. The case was closed long ago.</p>
<p>In the process, you put tons of misinformation to suggest NU has lower SAT scores, lacks amazing students, has lower graduate rankings and less faculty on national academies…etc than Ivies. All of them could easily be refuted by published data. I hope you see where you problem is.</p>
<p>I described features of ‘the type’ in post #47. </p>
<p>Honestly, it’s not worth arguing with teenagers who have probably never set foot in a bank. I have interviewed so many over the years, when I read here I’m willing to make major bets on who won’t get offers if the personality coming across here is not well hidden in interviews. That’s why there are so many rounds.</p>
<p>Top law firms hire T-14 law schools’ grads. The recruiting got nothing to do with undergrads. NU has a top-10 law school while some of the Ivies don’t have law schools. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/235587-consulting-core-schools.html?highlight=vault+consulting+top[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/235587-consulting-core-schools.html?highlight=vault+consulting+top</a>
This is few years old and I don’t know how valid it is today. But that year (whatever that was), NU was pretty high up there in terms of #top MC firms that considered it a core school and did better than 3 of the Ivies. Fast forward to today, [Home</a> | US Schools | US Schools Recruitment](<a href=“http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/us_schools/home.aspx]Home”>http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/us_schools/home.aspx) shows the recruiting calender for McKinsey. There are about 50 schools in the dropdown menu; most of them have resume drop/info sessions but not on-campus interviews. For NU, class of 2011 will have interviews for both summer analyst and full-time positions; the school does just as well as, if not better than, half of the Ivies (class of 2010/2011 combined). Michigan is well-recruited. The school you mentioned couple times before, CalTech, is <em>not</em> on the list. I was told CalTech isn’t a target for IB either. Many people on this board say Dartmouth has better WS recruiting than Yale, even though Yale is the second most selective school. Based on what I read, Colgate grads seem to do better also than, say, Pomona grads despite Pomona being quite a bit more selective. Again, that shows you recruiting for top IB/MC is not an exact measure of the student body; it’s a good proxy overall among the 3000+ colleges but at the top level, it sorta falls apart. There are other non meritocratic factors involved, as monydad already mentioned.</p>
<p>First, don’t look at who recruits, look at how many were hired. Recruiting is part looking for employees and part PR. Firms recruit at 100 schools and hire 95% from 8 of them.</p>
<p>Next, look at size of schools when looking at recruitment schedules. It’s cheaper to fly in candidates from schools the size of Pomona than to send a team to recruit for many.</p>
<p>And of course firms talk about who they hired from where–our clients care.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, let me offer an apology for being careless in what I attempted to say. I did not examine the Shanghai rankings for NU or Michigan (and they are mostly based on research productivity anyway) nor did I examine precise SAT bands. Of course, the top law firms recruit from Michigan since it is one of the top law schools in the country.</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make is this: the top investment banks look for a certain cachet and NU and Michigan do not offer it. In this respect even Brown, although lower in US News rankings has a better brand.</p>
<p>Re the argument about schools recruiting on campus, I cannot be more eloquent than hmom.</p>
Says who? I would put NU on par with the lower ivies any day. Michigan just right below them. Ross on par with the lower ivies and certainly above Brown and Cornell in terms of opportunities after graduation and branding…</p>
<p>
I cannot see how the students at the lower ivies are academically stronger than NU’s. They look almost identical to me. </p>
<p>
Because Ivy League is a generic name nowadays. It doesn’t mean Brown or Cornell is the same as Harvard. It’s just a name to refer to great schools, but not all the schools in the league are the same. Kellogg is a very strong name in the banking and finance world. It’s considered an “Ivy” in the financial world.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the Ivies have centain cachet that NU doesn’t have. That’s why the Ivies have higher yields. But cachet does not necessarily translate to higher caliber and as shown by other measures, NU students are as qualified in many other ways, even though the grads may not be as well-recruited by WS firms in NYC. As a research institution, it’s ranked higher than some of them in many different areas. The Ivies from top to bottom don’t have monopoly in everything.</p>
<p>Northwestern is a fringe top 15 school according to USNWR and is even less well regarded among employers and rich families “in the know”. Michigan isn’t even a top 25 school anymore and for most parents who send their kids to the top NE prep schools, going to Michigan is tantamount to absolute failure and it is the “ultimate” safety school in this regard.</p>
<p>Brown may not be highly ranked but it’s cache is tremendous among the movers and shakers of the East Coast. Comparing its name brand to Northwestern is frankly insulting. It’s not just the Ivy status either; Duke and Stanford are gems as well in the minds of the top prep school families and even more so among “old money” families in California and the South.</p>
<p>ramaswami,
way to come back to try to taunt after injecting <em>massive</em> amount of false info into this thread (SAT range, world university rankings, faculty on academies, management consulting, law firms recruiting, usn rankings…). i wonder if your college kid know about what you did here. yea, at least lesdiablesbleus was smart and didn’t mistakenly think Brown has higher ranking like you did. </p>
<p>hmom5,
thanks and i agree. retiring from this thread now.</p>
<p>Sam, it is deeply offensive to me that you bring up my college kid. In your first response to my post you wished I had not come back to post. It would be tasteless of me to ask you what your mom would think of your rudeness.</p>
<p>And then again you say at least lesdiab was smart enough. Sorry to destroy you: I got into the Indian Institute of Management, which is tougher to get into than even the IITs. You wont make it to the gates, Sam.</p>
<p>I freely admit that I was careless, I conflated undergrad rankings and grad rankings, and overlooked lower rankings for Brown, etc. William Blake famously said one must know more than enough to know what is enough. You remain deeply ignorant of the history and mission, the curriculums and the nature of the Ivies.</p>
<p>Let me summarize: with few exceptions, if cost is not a factor, the overwhelming majority of students in this country will choose an Ivy over NU or Michigan. Let me take a wager with you: so would you. Provide me releases and I will show that you applied to at least some of them and were rejected. Thanks.</p>
<p>I am taking hmom5’s advice to not care anymore about what you think about other schools but I’d like you to understand what your real problem is. It’s <em>not</em> about being “careless”.</p>
<p>You “summarized” with a statement not even a single person on this thread has refuted or said otherwise. It’d have been ok (though rather pointless to restate something nobody has refuted) if that really “summarized” what you were saying. I wouldn’t even bother to have any exchange with you if that’s what it’s all about. But let’s revisit what you really said:
</p>
<p>What you did is analogous to this:
Scenario 1:
Claim 1 by A: Tokyo is dirtier than NYC (not true; A had never been to Tokyo)
Claim 2 by A: People are not as professional in Tokyo (how does A know without having worked there?)
Summary: if given a chance, most people would want to work for ibank in NYC than Tokyo (no one says otherwise; “summary” does not summarize the claims)
Scenario 2:
Claim 1 by A: Asians have lower average SAT (not true; quite the opposite)
Claim 2 by A: Asians are poorer team players (really? how does A know this)
Summary: Asians are underrepresented in upper management on WS (no one says otherwise; “summary” does not summarize the claims). </p>
<p>Do you expect other people, let alone the Asians or people in Tokyo, would be courteous to Mr. A after he made those baseless and negative claims? Do you think others would take them as “careless” mistakes? I should point out while I wasn’t courteous, I made no reference or comments about you personally; it was clear I said lesdiab was smart about not mistaking published data; even the smartest people can make dumb mistake sometime. I wasn’t saying anything about your overall intelligence. I am sure you are smart and all. You engaged in ad hominem attack quite a few times; even if I go to a 4th-tier school or a community college, it does not automatically make my arguments less credible. </p>
<p>This isn’t about “carelessness”; what you have is some deep-seated bias or prejudice. No wonder you’d “know the history and mission, the curriculums and the nature of the Ivies” but can’t picture that some other schools can possibly have similar/higher rankings, # faculty on National Academies, no of peer reviewed publications. No wonder you’d just make other presumptuous and baseless claims quoted above without any reservation. No wonder you would claim “the cross fertilization” in which “the kid who had a summer with google talking about it with the one who went on a dig in Turkey” just never happen in Michigan or NU or NYU but is somehow “incredible” at Cornell, as if there’s some divine force that creates such magic threshold.</p>
<p>Sam Lee (and tenebrous), I was outraged that you brought my “college kid” into the picture. The comment, at least lesdiab was smart, clearly implies I am not. It is not mannerly to respond to rudeness with rudeness, I apologize for my remarks about you but I kind of lost it when you referred to a family member.</p>
<p>I did not read your lengthy post about Asians and Tokyo, etc. When writing fast and on these sites one mangles what one wishes to say, and I certainly did. Overall, lesdiab made my point best about Brown and NU/Michigan.</p>
<p>And hmom too. I am glad you are happy with your school, enjoy the experience.</p>
<p>Some of you are ridiculous and downright childish. Use common sense! Being an ivy doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s the best of the best. But it doesn’t matter, b/c ivies provide THE BEST SHOT at getting into IB. Numbers don’t lie. Sure Michigan and NU are incredible schools, and many of their students are probably brighter than many ivy league kids…so what? That’s like saying Reebok makes an incredible shoe, probably better than Nike, therefore more people should be buying Reebok. Nope, why? Because of brand name!!! Ivy league schools have built up a brand name and have sent a **** load of kids to the street. Thats why every bank recruits at every ivy. NU and michigan are great schools, there’s no need to justify their credentials. You will have a great shot at getting into IB from them, but if you think you have a better shot (just going by school alone) than an ivy, your kidding yourself.</p>
<p>there is a lot of silly discussion here, I bet that recruiters make a decision within one minute of seeing the candiate (and after reviewing there resume)…any kid who got a Ross pre-admit is equal to any ivy school grad, but then it comes down to GPA, EC’s etc…</p>
<p>I know of one case of a Ross Pre-admit and carrying a 4.0 and doing a D1 sport, you don’t think this person won’t get an offer?</p>
<p>Perhaps true… but in general how many people play a D1 sport and have a 4.0 in Ross pre-admit… 1?</p>
<p>Ivy schools have better overall recruiting in general, which often makes all the difference if you aren’t going to play a D1 sport at a major state school (and even if you could).</p>