Hi, My son got admitted to UMich Ross, UNS(Kenan - Flagler) and Emory Goizueta Scholars program. Emory offered full tuition and into BBA scholars program. Since he is getting admission to free undergrad degree at Emory, I know its simply a clear choice to go with the Emory offer. However, are there any other reasons to consider UMich Ross or UNC over Emory Goizueta even if it mean paying full out of state tuition? He is interested to go into IB or sales/trading in financial industry. Does Emory offer such path to financial industry? How important is it to have a great college spirit and campus experience that some of the bigger state colleges offer?
Absolutely none. Emory will open all opportunities, it’s up to you to seize them. There is nothing about UNC or Michigan that is worth spending $150,000 to $200,000 more than Emory. Want spirit? Go to Georgia Tech games, or use your $200k savings to fly to Michigan games.
No reason for UNC, which doesn’t have a greater Street presence than Emory.
Ross is better represented on the Street, but note that you can go to Emory*, work, and then get in to an elite MBA program that has a heavy presence on the Street and still come out ahead financially.
- Yes, he'd have to do well at Emory and at work to get in to an elite MBA program, but he'd have to do well at Ross to get a Wall Street job as well and most analysts from college are kicked out after 2-3 years . . . when they then enter an MBA program.
Michigan would cost $200,000 more. Two Hundred Thousand Dollars. Michigan may be better represented on the Street because it’s triple the size. Emory is just as outstanding. A Goizueta Scholar, the cream of the crop, will have every opportunity available.
If maximizing Wall Street placement odds is your major goal, you should spend the extra $200k to send your kid to an Ivy League school.
Once outside of the Ivies, there’s not going to be huge differences between the odds for kids coming out of the undergrad B-schools from the 10-30 ranked colleges. How your kid DOES at his chosen school will matter much more than Emory vs. Michigan vs. UVA vs. ND vs. wherever.
There may (or may not) be other characteristics and fit reasons for you to pay up for UM or UNC. Or if the money doesn’t matter to you, let your kid pick the school he likes best.
@northwesty: Ross places about as well on the Street as Ivies/equivalents.
And even for an Ivy, that depends on how much $200K is worth to someone.
For someone who doesn’t mind dropping mid-five figures every year to go on vacation (trip to Antarctica, jetsetting to exotic locales around the world), then sure, you could consider spending on a college experience rather than on vacations.
To someone just upper-middle-class or middle class to whom $200K is real money and would make a big dent in savings, passing up tuition-free Emory would be insane, IMO.
As I mentioned above, you can pay full-time for an elite MBA with that money and still have some left over.
That Ivy-only stuff is so overblown. There are a bunch of Alabama grads at Goldman Sachs. There’s are very few jobs requiring that uber-prestige, yet they get outsized attention.
Purple – Not really.
Princeton graduates 1320 kids a year and doesn’t even have an undergrad business program. 36% of its grads get jobs in “financial services” (which pretty much means Wall Street) which works out to 473 kids a year.
Michigan Ross BBA class size is 625 kids. I’m sure those kids do just fine in the job market, but I really doubt that 75% of them get Wall Street jobs (which is what you’d need to equal Princeton’s placement).
The top 15 undergrad schools represented at Goldman include Cornell, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Princeton and Yale.
Michigan, Emory, UNC, UVA, ND, Georgetown etc. don’t make the list. But NYU and, interestingly, BYU do make the top 15 list.
^ Agreed.
There are a bunch of Ivy-equivalents and there isn’t a huge drop-off to the next half-tier of near-Ivies. Nor is there a huge drop-off from the near-Ivies to the next half-tier of “good schools”. Nor is there a huge drop-off between them and the next half-tier of average flagships and equivalents.
Now, is there a difference between an Ivy/equivalent and a directional full of commuters? Sure, but in general, people on CC try to split the hair too fine.
Oh, and most of the uber-prestige industries also have heavy turnover. Something most people don’t keep in mind.
If there’s no drop off, how come six Ivies (many of whom don’t have an undergrad B school or major) make Goldman’s top 15 list of undergrad schools? But none of the “Ivy equivalents” (Duke, UM, UVA, Georgetown, Emory. etc.) do?
Look, the OP asked about maximizing his kid’s chances of landing a job on Wall Street/IB. Clearly, the best place to do that from is one of the listed Ivies. Or NYU.
If that is the goal (a quite dubious goal imho), then you should spend the $200k to send your kid to Wharton. Not Michigan.
I hate to tell you how many NYU Stern kids I know selling insurance or steak knives (I’m not kidding). Only the best end up at the elite Wall Street jobs. Just like any school.
Thank you all “senior members” @CC. Keep your comments coming. Again, right now the thought process is to take Emory offer while he is still waiting to hear from NYU, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke and Upenn(not Wharton - he didn’t apply there thinking he is under-qualified). We should know by end of this week(Mar 31/Apr 1). Not sure if any of them will offer any aid. But based on what you are saying, am I hearing that spending that money on Cornell, NYU or Upenn(not Wharton) would be worth it? As per the goal, yes its a dubious goal for a 17 year old. He will learn what doors will open for him only after going to one of the schools - he is fired up to do well in college. Trust me I am not someone who doesn’t care about that 200K. Just trying to see if any other options are worth that money that’s all.
@northwesty: It’s a gradient. And Goldman isn’t the only IB firm around. The last chart here purports to show the schools that have the most on the Street (unlike the other charts, they don’t seem to say that they scale by per capita, though, though tiny Amherst makes the list): https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/blog/category/infographics/
7 ivies on there but also UMich.
And as for maximization, everything is about cost/benefit. Would you rather play a game that costs $1 where you have a 20% change of winning $10 or a game that costs $5 and gives you a 40% chance of winning $10?
You could look for the game that gives you the highest chance of winning, but if you choose to play game #2, you’re stupid.
@northwesty: And here’s WSO’s table:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/wso-rankings-for-investment-banks-university-power-rankings-part-10-of-10
UMich actually ties for #2 at placing in to GS here. Where are you getting your data from?
@mystic33: “But based on what you are saying, am I hearing that spending that money on Cornell, NYU or Upenn(not Wharton) would be worth it?”
That depends on what you want to hear, I suppose.
I think I’m pretty clear in that I don’t think it is worth it unless you’re loaded and don’t mind blowing 6 figures.
You can read the links I posted as well as my reasoning.
My answer is no, none of those schools are worth $200,000 more. A Goizueta Scholar, assumed to excel, will have the all same job opportunities. This isn’t a random student at some mediocre directional school. It’s a cream of the crop scholar at one of the top business schools in the country.
I don’t think any of those schools are worth paying more than $200k extra for.
But assume (i) you are willing to pay the $200k and (ii) the sole reason you are paying is to max out your kid’s chances to work at Goldman, Blackstone etc. [Highly dubious set-up but that is the question being asked ok.]
My order of schools would be Penn, Cornell, NYU, Duke, Gtown, Mich, Emory.
But other non-dubious factors would be more important to me – price, fit, size, location, weather and (most important) where my kid will do best.
Several folks have bandied about NYU without specifying whether they mean NYU in general or NYU-Stern specifically. This is important as there’s a major difference in prospects here depending on whether one specifically mean Stern or one of NYU’s other undergrad divisions(much lower chances).
Considering OP’s goals, NYU-Stern is the only viable choice to be on the list and even then, I wouldn’t be placing it above the schools ranked below. It’s more like:
UPenn Wharton
Penn(non-Wharton), Cornell
NYU-Stern, Duke, Gtown, Mich, Emory though a large part of this is due to regional self-selection rather than schools other than NYU-Stern not being “strong enough”.
In short, if one has to decide between full sticker at NYU-Stern or UMich Ross or full ride at Emory…Emory hands down.
Oh, by the way, NYU would be closer to $250,000 more. Just saying.
I see it like Cobrat. There’s a lot of regional influence, self-selection and enrollment size involved. Wharton and Stern are two big undergrad B schools located in the north east. So those schools are populated by a lot of smart kids who want to end up on Wall Street.
But you can definitely get to Wall Street from Emory. Especially if your kid does well there and if the kid’s resume show’s he’s a top scholar there. Save the money and read Malcolm Gladwell’s big fish/small pond theory.
UM might be a slightly bigger Wall Street pond, but your kid might be a smaller fish there too.
Good luck. First world problem!!