<p>Are there any supporters of Berkely here that aren't from California? Just curious...</p>
<p>Everyone in East Asia. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>"yes, because many of them (republicans) are NOT tolerant... and they try to impose their intolerant beliefs on others through the legal system and other means.</p>
<p>just live and let live. believe something? fine... believe in it. Just don't impose those beliefs on others."</p>
<p>Tolerance - The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others. I don't see anything in there about making exceptions for beliefs that some may try to convert you to. Democrats are certainly no better when it comes to practicing tolerance - especially towards ideals/principles that they don't agree with. Give me a break.<br>
The two parties have much more in common than most people would like to admit.</p>
<p>Strykur, 20% is 20%. A 70 pound difference is huge if a person ways 150 pounds. But let us face it, is there that much of a difference between a 425 pounder and a 350 pounder? Both are huge. Alumni groups of 350,000 and 425,000 are both huge.</p>
<p>Umich is too easy to get into and its student body is quite average. The dumbest girl I know graduated from Umich and she's now an "data entry specialist" which is basically just her sitting at a computer typing in numbers for 12/hour.</p>
<p>Umm, the student bodies at Michigan and Berkeley are almost identical... and one would hardly consider them "average"</p>
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The dumbest girl I know graduated from Umich and she's now an "data entry specialist" which is basically just her sitting at a computer typing in numbers for 12/hour.
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<p>lol... I can't even believe I'm responding to you</p>
<p>I know very mediocre intellects who graduated from Dartmouth and Stanford. I am pretty sure a school with more than 20 students is going to have a couple of village idiots. But Michigan is rather selective, with a mean graduating unweighed GPA of entering students over 3.8 and a mean SAT score (best in one sitting) over 1370 for this year's entering Freshman class.</p>
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Are there any supporters of Berkely here that aren't from California? Just curious...
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<p>Uh, sure? I'd rank Cal above Mich. It's not a very big difference, but that's par for the course in almost any heated discussion about ____ vs. _____.</p>
<p>I repect your opinion, but I have to disagree. I feel the University of Michigan has more to offer than Berkeley. Three very intelligent kids from my class are going to the University of Michigan (oos). I don't think I know anyone who even applied to Berkeley. It's simply that Berkeley is a dream school for Californians, and only Californians (well, apparently internationals from East Asia also). I'm sure alumni and fellow Californians will defend the school to the death, but this can lead to greater, uh, subjectivity...</p>
<p>I am sure there are a number of cabdrivers in NYC with NYU degrees.</p>
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Well, you really have to be more specific than "which college is better?" Although they are similar, still one college exceeds in one area while another college exceeds in another. For example, if you are from Out-Of-State then it is much easier to get into Berkeley than Michigan. I believe Berkeley has more transfers as well. If you're talking about name-recognition Berkeley beats Michigan. Honestly though, I think there are few (if any) areas in which one college clearly dominates over the other. For example, Berkeley has a top-notch engineering program but Michigan's is also very very good. And, both have really good Business schools. So, it's pretty hard to compare. Overall, I would say Berkeley is a little better, though again, it really depends on what you are looking for.
vicissitudes is offline
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<p>I was sure that Michigan was easier to get into out of state. (I probably shouldn't have quoted your whole message just to say that :P) Though kudos, cuz you were one of the few people in this thread that's been spelling Berkeley properly.</p>
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Three very intelligent kids from my class are going to the University of Michigan (oos). I don't think I know anyone who even applied to Berkeley. It's simply that Berkeley is a dream school for Californians, and only Californians (well, apparently internationals from East Asia also).
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<p>Um, wow. I don't even know what to say to that. There should be some kind of rule against 'supporting' an argument with "well the kids in my school yadda yadda yadda and so obviously this applies to the entire country." C'mon now - Spidey would know better than that.</p>
<p>I'm just gonna give my opinion as a international student from Brazil.AS far as prestige Berkeley is way way higher them UM .....Berkeley is a dream school for most international students that i know .One more thing i was suprised early this year with a friend of mine that got accepted to berkeley his stats was very average....</p>
<p>As for which is harder to get into OOS:</p>
<p>What's UMich's OOS acceptance rate? Berkeley's is 21.5% UMich has an overall acceptace rate of like 50% so I doubt the OOS acceptance rate is lower than Berkeley's.</p>
<p>As anecdotal evidence, two kids from my school applied...one with 2340 SATs and another with 2140 SATs and both got rejected, while the three kids who applied to UMich all got in. One had SATs of around 2000.</p>
<p>The reason why not a lot apply to Berkeley is simply because it's too far (from us east coasters).</p>
<p>As for the international aspect, a lot of asians study engineering, and what's a better place to study engineering than at Berkeley, which is why it's a dream for so many of us. In fact, Berkeley's college of engineering has the most international students. It's international acceptance rate for fall of 2005 was 12%, comparable to Princeton's acceptance rate for domestic students.</p>
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It's simply that Berkeley is a dream school for Californians, and only Californians (well, apparently internationals from East Asia also). I'm sure alumni and fellow Californians will defend the school to the death, but this can lead to greater, uh, subjectivity...
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<p>Well, let's not go too far. I think there is little dispute that Berkeley is a great place to go for graduate school, especially for your PhD. On the PhD level, Berkeley competes toe-to-toe with any school in the world. </p>
<p>At the undergrad level, things get a little dicier. I would still give Berkeley the edge over Michigan at the undergrad level. However, I don't think I would pay OOS tuition for Berkeley vs. in-state tuition for Michigan. {On the other hand, if you are getting aid, then that can change the calculation.}</p>
<p>Haha! This could happen only when UMich goes "PRIVATE".</p>
<p>UMich do have the potential to go private and people do talk about this matter for some time now.</p>
<p>1) THe 5 billion endowment (#6 or #7 in the nation).
2) The 4th wealthiest alumni group.
3) The OOS approaching 40% and paying tuition almost like private school.
(compare the Stanford's 60%OOS, 40% in state)
4) The strong sport tradtion.
5) The academic strength could beat half of the Ivies.</p>
<p>So, UCLA AND UCSD could get top 3 spots among the Publics when UMich go private.</p>
<p>Im going to try to refute this claim by attacking your 5 points:
1) Got us beat with endowment because of the Enron sparked budget problems and half of our state is illegal aliens, also alums are stingy because they can't find any jobs
2) U may have the wealthies we've got the best looking and most attractive alumni group
3) Have no idea about this
4) We have comprable if not stronger sport tradition. 99 NCAA team championships thats #1 in the country
5) Half of the Ivies are garbage (ie brown, Dartmouth, Cornell,)</p>
<p>There I just bent over and took it like a true citizen of west hollywood. Yeah what was i thinking UCSD sucks balls</p>
<p>Cal only has rooms to take in 10% or less from OOS (compared to 35% for Michigan). That's the main reason why it's harder to get into Cal from OOS. The overall mid-50% SAT range for Cal and Michigan are about dead even. This is even more impressive given the fact that Michigan tends to put more weights on grades/class ranks than standard test scores.</p>
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As for the international aspect, a lot of asians study engineering, and what's a better place to study engineering than at Berkeley, which is why it's a dream for so many of us.
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Let's see what US News has to say about that:</p>
<p>Engr Ranking ... Mich...Cal
Aerospace ........ 3 .... 17
Biomedical ........ 8 .....13
Chemical ..........10 .... 2
Civil ................ 8 ..... 1
Computer ......... 6 ...... 3
ECE ................. 5 ..... 3
Environmental .... 2 ..... 4
Industrial .......... 2 ..... 4
Materials ........... 3 ..... 3
Mechanical ........ 3 ..... 3
Nuclear ............. 4 ..... 4</p>
<p>I'd say they are pretty even.</p>
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Berkeley's college of engineering has the most international students.
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Are you sure you are not counting also the Asian Americans? There were only 95 internationals in the 2005-06 freshman class (774 in the entire UG student body).</p>
<p>Phroz3n, Michigan's freshman class this year graduated from high school with an average 3.85 unweighed GPA and a mid 50% SAT range of 1270-1480 (in one sitting). I doubt Cal had higher stats for its incoming Freshman class.</p>
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I'd say they are pretty even.
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<p>I never said they weren't. I'm just explaining why it appeals to so many internationals. Someone had said Cal only appeals to Californians.</p>
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Berkeley's college of engineering has the most international students.
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<p>I apologize. Just checked the facts and I was wrong.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I don't dispute that. Berkeley's average SAT score for this year was 1375 (M+V), which is almost identical to that of UMich. I'm simply claiming Cal OOS is a bit more competitive than UMich OOS. It'd be clearer if acceptance rates were known for UMich OOS but I can't find anything on that.</p>