<p>Hey, guys.
Now I'm choosing between UMICH and HAMILTON College and I really have no idea which is slightly better?
I might going to major in Economics but still not sure about this. And also I'm not sure whether going to grad school in the future.=(
I'm worrying about the class size and the advising at UMich. Also, about the reputation of Hamilton and internship opportunities at it.
Both schools are great to me.=)
And I don't know what to do. =(
Any suggestion or information will be appreciated!!!
Thank you!!</p>
<p>They are difficult to compare. Michigan is a world-renowned large public research university, while Hamilton is a small liberal arts college with a reputation that is pretty much limited to the northeast/mid-atlantic US. Michigan definitely has more prestige anywhere in the world, but the small environment at Hamilton might suit you better. I would personally chose Michigan.</p>
<p>What do you plan on studying? And is cost an issue?</p>
<p>Did you see this thread – </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/597532-um-econ-sucks.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/597532-um-econ-sucks.html</a></p>
<p>To CCRunner
Thanx first.yah…It’s hard to compare~UMich has great reputation but I’m worring about the class size. There are a lot of students there and maybe the individual attention will be not enough?
I’m planning on studying economics and cost is not an issue~</p>
<p>To mnozzi
Thanx. But i thought UMich has awesome economics? Isn’t it has high rank?</p>
<p>Since Michigan is a huge top research university, lectures are pretty much packed with hundreds of students (econ 101, 102, 401, 402). The class size will eventually decrease to around 30-70 as you start taking advanced econ courses (400+ level) though. You will find the same case happening at other top research universities like Cal, Northwestern, etc. Yes Michigan economics is indeed excellent, tied with the likes of Columbia and UCLA.</p>
<p>To ProudWolverine
Thanx…Do u have the feeling that u dont get enough individual advising from professors because of so many students?</p>
<p>Nope. Professors are always available during their office hours. You’re also free to schedule an appointment with your professor if u need individual counselling/advising.</p>
<p>Both economic programs are well recognized but Hamilton and UM are very different schools. </p>
<p>As someone who has family very connected to UM, I can honestly say I wouldn’t think twice about attending UM for grad school but no way as an undergraduate. If you like big it’s great. </p>
<p>Hamilton caps most entry level classes at 40. Upper level classes generally have half that many students or less. There are no TA’s or graduate students. Most people know each other. It’s a very collaborative learning experience. The are no Big 10 athletics. Everyone lives on campus all four years. Alumni association well known for helping with placement of new graduates. </p>
<p>Although not well known Hamilton has an extremely strong reputation in academia. I never wanted to go to UM but what sealed my decision – a friend of the family who is a VP at Goldman was asked to rank my schools based on opportunities for IB. He and his team agreed that I would have more opportunities to work on Wall Street if I attended Colgate or Hamilton than attending Michigan.</p>
<p>UM is huge. There are over 40,000 undergraduate/graduate students. 2/3’s of the undergraduate students are from MI. The learning experience appears to be much more competitive. Most people move off campus after their freshmen year. It’s Michigan flagship college and well known throughout the US/world. Ann Arbor has much more to offer than Clinton, NY. But I say that ‘tongue in cheek’ since I think Hamilton has more to offer than UM.</p>
<p>If you haven’t already, you need to visit both schools. Also if you are a MI resident it would be less than half the cost to attend UM. </p>
<p>You and your family need to decide what will work best for you. Forget about what everyone else says. Good Luck!!!</p>
<p>To mnozzi
Thank u soooo much!!! =)
yah…i should consider what i wanna get from my college experience first, then i can choose the school that suits me best.</p>
<p>“But I say that ‘tongue in cheek’ since I think Hamilton has more to offer than UM.”</p>
<p>Such as?</p>
<p>
So please explain why Hamilton’s peer assessment score is only 3.6 (out of 5.0), tied for 33rd place among LAC’s?</p>
<p>
Let’s see. 23% of Ross BBA grads last year secured jobs in investment banking upon graduat</p>
<p>At most major universities, Economics is a popular major, so classes will tend to be large. At Columbia, intro Econ classes generally enroll well over 300 students. At most elite universities, like Northwestern, Duke, Cornell, Penn etc…, even intermediate and advanced Econ classes will have over 50 (at times, even over 100) students. Michigan is no exception. </p>
<p>Hamilton vs Michigan should not be such a tough decision. They are completely different. Hamilton will be more intimate but more limited. Michigan will be larger but will offer greater options and opportunities. One major factor to consider is setting. Ann Arbor is a reasonably large college town with a lot of things to do and with the suburbs of Detroit for additional activity. Hamilton is located in a rural area with little to do.</p>
<p>GoBlue81 – </p>
<p>Economics is not in Ross but LSA. </p>
<p>23% is impressive however your 1/3 may not be far off for Hamilton/Colgate when you consider the number of Economics grads who get jobs in IB each year. </p>
<p>The CEOs of companies like GE, Pepsi, BMS, etc send their kids to Hamilton. Obviously these leaders must believe Hamilton has some merit over larger and more prestigious schools . </p>
<p>I know that you may find this hard to believe but people are willing to pay a 250% premium to attend schools other than UM. Whats even more surprising is that many parents of these children are smart, educated, and successful and encourage their children to find the right fit. The sun does not rise and set on UM. Its all about finding the school where you will be most successful. Its shouldnt be a cookie cutter fit. </p>
<p>Dkschrute</p>
<p>Not everyone who gains admission to UM wants to attend. Isnt college more then just an academic experience? (Although, statistically the students of both schools are intellectually on par). UM is huge, the competition intense. A lot of Michiganders stick with the kids they know from high school. D1 sports are limited to the recruited. Introductory classes are large and are often just lectures with limited discussion. </p>
<p>I want to be a scholar and an athlete. I want to know my professors on a first name basis. I want to be able to ask questions during class without interrupting a room full of people. I want to live on campus and yet join a fraternity or sorority. I want to go to a school where I know no one and leave, at least, having met everyone. I want to learn in a collaborative environment not compete on a regular basis with people I barely know. </p>
<p>Ive gone to UM games for years. Ive eaten in most of the restaurants in A2. I have spent a lot of time on campus. I have slept in the dorms. I have sat in on classes. I often go to A2 to visit friends. UM is not bad but Hamilton is better. </p>
<p>A2 is fun but its not Nirvana. Hamilton may appear to be isolated but there are many schools within a 60-90 minute drive (Colgate, Cornell, Syracuse, Ithaca, Albany). Personally, I prefer these destinations over Detroit. </p>
<p>Bigger is not always better. Perhaps its better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond.</p>
<p>“Economics is not in Ross but LSA.”</p>
<p>That is true Mnozzi, but recruitment at LSA is pretty heavy too. I majored in Econ, had a sub 3.5 GPA and had offers from three major IBanks (including JPM and Lehman) before graduation. Most of my Econ friends with 3.3+ GPAs landed very impressive jobs. Some companies, like Goldman Sachs and McKinsey actually like recruiting at the the collegesof LSA and Engineering as much as Ross. </p>
<p>“I’ve gone to UM games for years. I’ve eaten in most of the restaurants in A2. I have spent a lot of time on campus. I have slept in the dorms. I have sat in on classes. I often go to A2 to visit friends. UM is not bad but Hamilton is better.”</p>
<p>How do you know? Have you done the same at Hamilton? And when you say “better”, I assume you mean for you personally, not for all.</p>
<p>Nobody is saying that you should always pick U-M over Hamilton. If you prefer a LAC environment, Hamilton is a natural choice.</p>
<p>It’s just that you made claims that you didn’t back up with facts. Like “Hamilton has an extremely strong reputation in academia”. How do you reconcile with the fact that Hamilton’s peer assessment score is a mediocre 3.6 (out of 5)?</p>
<p>Btw, Ross’ i-Banking placement is usually around 36%-39% (last year was an anomaly). I didn’t know that Hamilton Econ places more than 1/3 of its grads on Wall Street. That’s certainly impressive. Do you have any link to any data to support that?</p>
<p>very interesting… bump</p>
<p>I went to Colgate as an undergrad and am currently at UM for grad school. So I get to see the best and worst of both worlds. I’m actualyl a very strong advocate for LAC education for undergrad because students are making the transition from high school to college and need to have the opportunity to explore different areas of study with strong faculty support. Also, it’s just more intimate. The only time I’m willing to bend my view is for engineering because LACs often don’t have that kind of money for that kind of research. The other reason is that you’ll have closer relationship with the faculty for research. </p>
<p>After being here for a year, I can say without a doubt that UM is HUGE. Even though there are small classes here and there, it’s just huge and easy to feel isolated and lost. People don’t step together at the same time and unless there’s crazy publicity for a certain event, nobody knows what’s really going on campus. With a small school at Hamilton, you will know EVERYTHING that goes on campus and can step in time with the rest of the student body on campus issues and group hosted events. Basically, I’ve found it’s quite challenging to find people who know what I’m talking about because everyone has such varied interests. In a LAC, people will know what you’re talking about, even if they don’t care about it themselves. That’s what I miss… it’s so challenging trying to come up with so many different conversation topics with people because they’re from all over. </p>
<p>Ann Arbor is also very cold- colder than central New York. It’s mainly due to the winds here- think 30 mph gusts! Clinton may not offer very much but I would imagine that there must be loads of community service opportunities to get involved with the area residents. You are also within driving distance to Syracuse, Utica, Colgate (in Hamilton), and possibly Cornell. The other thing about living in CNY is that you probably won’t live in such a pretty and rural area like that for the rest of your life. It’s an opportunity to be connected with “America” because it’s so local. That said, much of your research and community projects will revolve around CNY- you have your primary sources right at your fingertips and have an opportunity to make an impact on the community. </p>
<p>Ann Arbor is local as well but it’s dominated by UM’s world reputation. Ann Arbor can’t live without Michigan’s resources. It does stand on its own but admittedly, without the student population driving the demands, it wouldn’t be the city it is today. And it doesn’t really use the students’ energy and input to change anything in Ann Arbor. So it can feel… futile at times trying to make a difference in your local community.</p>
<p>You should also look into the alumni network. Small LACs like Colgate and Hamilton have very strong networks because of the environment that we lived in- these schools function as communities. Everyone automatically looks out for each other and is on the same page. On the contrary, Michigan is huge but it’s hard to forge comfortable connections with the alumni because chances are, you and the alumni won’t have much in common (except for football). As a future alumni of Michigan, I wouldn’t be comfortable contacting anyone with Michigan degree because, who am I trying to connect with an alumni with deeper interest than football? I have two Michigan alumni in my family and we can’t… even get past 3 minutes talking about Michigan. I have met other Colgate alumni in my hometown and we can talk for at least 10 to 15 minutes straight on about Colgate.</p>
<p>Many people will argue that Michigan is not worth the OOS fees and I agree. For the same price, you can get more personal attention, tighter alumni network, and a chance to live among the cows and wheat. I wouldn’t exchange my LAC education and I am thrilled that I waited until graduate school to attend a school like Michigan. It’s really evident among my graduate student peers where I’m coming from and my professors seem to appreciate my perspectives.</p>
<p>So think about what kind of college student you want to be and go with it.</p>
<p>Ticklemepink, some of what you say is accurate, but some of it isn’t. I do not agree about your take on alumni connections. Just because a school is large and has alums with varried interest does not mean that they do not have anything to talk about. Students at the University of Michigan, regardless of their background or interests, have common experiences while in college. Ann Arbor is small afterall. When I meet an alum for the first time, we always have a lot to talk about, not just football.</p>
<p>Couple of things we both agree on; LACs have smaller classes and some students do better in the LAC environment. </p>
<p>The rest of your posts suggests an allegiance to your undergraduate institution (and its peers) that is to be expected. We all forge a much stronger connection with our undergraduate institution than we do with our graduate institution. That is perfectly natural and explains why your fellow graduate students agree with you. I did my undergraduate studies at Michigan and my graduate studies at Cornell and my loyalty will always go to Michigan. One simply does not connect with their graduate institution in the same way one connects with their undergraduate institution.</p>
<p>bump…bump</p>