UMich vs UCLA

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
21

<p>Like I said MichorPlan, I did not merely "cherry pick: a handful of private universities that are more expensive than Michigan. The vast majority of the top 50 private universities are more expensive than Michigan. As the list below clearly shows, 42 out of the top 50 private universities are more expensive. Among the schools that are cheaper are Caltech (endowment of $1 million per student), Rice (famous for being the best value among private universities), Harvard (endowment of $1.5 million/student), Princeton (endowment of $2 million/student), Yeshiva (niche school), Syracuse (not quite Michigan, eh!) and Northeastern (see Syracuse).</p>

<p>Columbia University
Tuition and Fees: $47,500
Room and Board: $11,500
$59,000
[Fees</a> and Expenses | Columbia College](<a href=“Columbia College Bulletin < Columbia College | Columbia University”>Columbia College Bulletin < Columbia College | Columbia University)</p>

<p>George Washington University
Tuition and Fees: $46,000
Room and Board: $10,500
Total: $56,500</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon
Tuition and Fees: $45,500
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>University of Rochester
Tuition and Fees: $45,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $58,000
[Estimated</a> Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://enrollment.rochester.edu/admissions/apply/international/costs.shtm]Estimated”>http://enrollment.rochester.edu/admissions/apply/international/costs.shtm)</p>

<p>Tulane University
Tuition and Board: $45,000
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $56,500
<a href=“https://tulane.edu/financialaid/cost/index.cfm[/url]”>https://tulane.edu/financialaid/cost/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Tuition and Fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $57,000
[Financial</a> Aid:: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute](<a href=“http://admissions.rpi.edu/aid/index.html]Financial”>Financial Aid | Admissions)</p>

<p>Tufts University
Tuition and Fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,500</p>

<p>University of Chicago
Tuition and fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $57,500</p>

<p>Brandeis University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $57,000
[Cost</a> of Attendance Calculator | Office of Student Financial Services | Brandeis University](<a href=“http://www.brandeis.edu/sfs/tuition/costs.html]Cost”>http://www.brandeis.edu/sfs/tuition/costs.html)</p>

<p>Brown University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $11,000
Total: $55,000</p>

<p>Duke University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,500
[JHU</a> Student Financial Services | Prospective Students | Freshman & Transfers | Cost](<a href=“Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University”>Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University)</p>

<p>New York University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $16,000
Total: $60,000</p>

<p>University of Pennsylvania
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Cornell University
Tuition and Fees: $43,500
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>Northwestern University
Tuition and Fees: $43,500
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>Boston College
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $55,500
[Financial</a> Aid Award Letter Info: Cost of Attendance - Office of Student Services - Boston College](<a href=“http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/ltrcost.html#undergrad]Financial”>http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/ltrcost.html#undergrad)</p>

<p>Boston University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $56,000
[Cost</a> of Education for Undergraduates Financial Assistance | Boston University](<a href=“http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/]Cost”>http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/)</p>

<p>Emory University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Tuition: $55,000
[Financial</a> Aid - Emory College - Cost of Attendance](<a href=“Apply for Financial Aid | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>Apply for Financial Aid | Emory University | Atlanta GA)</p>

<p>Georgetown University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,00
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>University of Notre Dame
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $55,000</p>

<p>University of Southern California
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $55,000
[USC</a> Financial Aid - Applying & Receiving Financial Aid - Undergraduate - Costs](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/costs.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/costs.html)</p>

<p>Wake Forest University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $54,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance](<a href=“Student Financial Aid | Wake Forest University”>Undergraduate Costs & Fees | Student Financial Aid | Wake Forest University)</p>

<p>Washington University-St Louis
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Fordham University
Tuition and Fee: $42,000
Room and Board: $15,500
Total: $57,500
<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/images/finaid/fclc%201213%20budget.pdf[/url]”>http://www.fordham.edu/images/finaid/fclc%201213%20budget.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Lehigh University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $11,000
Total: $53,000
[Lehigh</a> University: Undergraduate Admissions: Tuition & Financial Aid: Tuition & Costs](<a href=“http://www4.lehigh.edu/admissions/undergrad/tuition/costs.aspx]Lehigh”>http://www4.lehigh.edu/admissions/undergrad/tuition/costs.aspx)</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $54,000
[MIT</a> - Student Financial Services](<a href=“MIT Student Financial Services”>MIT Student Financial Services)</p>

<p>Southern Methodist University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $55,500
[SMU:</a> Financial Aid - UG Costs](<a href=“http://smu.edu/financial_aid/Costs.asp]SMU:”>http://smu.edu/financial_aid/Costs.asp)</p>

<p>Vanderbilt University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $55,500
[Costs</a> for 2012-2013 | Office of Financial Aid | Vanderbilt University](<a href=“http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php]Costs”>Costs: On-Campus or Off-Campus  | Office of Financial Aid | Vanderbilt University)</p>

<p>Yale University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $55,000
[Yale</a> University Financial Aid > How Need-Based Financial Aid Works](<a href=“Welcome | Student Financial and Administrative Services”>Welcome | Student Financial and Administrative Services)</p>

<p>Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Tuition and Fees: $41,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $54,000
[Office</a> of Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees](<a href=“http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/FA/First/fytuition.html]Office”>http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/FA/First/fytuition.html)</p>

<p>Pepperdine University
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $53,000</p>

<p>Stanford University
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $54,000</p>

<p>University of Miami
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $43,000
[2012-2013</a> Cost of Attendance (New Freshman/New Transfer) | Enrollment Management | University of Miami](<a href=“http://www.miami.edu/index.php/office_of_financial_assistance/ug/ug_coa/ug_coa_12_13/]2012-2013”>http://www.miami.edu/index.php/office_of_financial_assistance/ug/ug_coa/ug_coa_12_13/)</p>

<p>American University
Tuition and Fees: $40,500
Room and Board: $9,000
Total: $49,500
[Getting</a> Started, American University, Washington, DC](<a href=“http://www.american.edu/admissions/transfer/index.cfm]Getting”>Transferring to American University | American University, Washington, DC)</p>

<p>Case Western Reserve University
Tuition and Fees: $40,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $53,000
[Undergraduate</a> Cost of Attendance :: Case Western Reserve University](<a href=“Financial Aid | Case Western Reserve University”>Financial Aid | Case Western Reserve University)</p>

<p>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
Tuition and Fees: ($39,000+$42,000)/2 = $40,500
Room and Board: $10,000
Total: $50,500</p>

<p>Harvard University
Tuition and Fees: $40,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $53,500
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Financial Aid: Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/cost.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/cost.html)</p>

<p>Northeastern University
Tuition and Fees: $40,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $53,000
[Tuition</a> and Fees | Admissions](<a href=“http://www.northeastern.edu/admissions/costs/tuition.html]Tuition”>http://www.northeastern.edu/admissions/costs/tuition.html)</p>

<p>California Institute of Technology
Tuition and fees: $39,500
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $51,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance - Caltech Caltech Financial Aid Office](<a href=“http://www.finaid.caltech.edu/coa]Cost”>http://www.finaid.caltech.edu/coa)</p>

<p>Syracuse University
Tuition and Fees: $39,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $52,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html]Cost”>http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html)</p>

<p>Princeton University
Tuition and Fees: $38,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $51,000
[Princeton</a> University | Fees & Payment Options](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/cost/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/cost/)</p>

<p>Rice University
Tuition and Fees: $36,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $49,000
[2012-2013</a> Tuition & Fees : Rice University](<a href=“Undergraduate Resources | Rice University”>Undergraduate Resources | Rice University)</p>

<p>Yeshiva University
Tuition and Fees: $36,500
Room and Board: $9,000
Total: $45,500</p>

22

<p>Like I said MichorPlan, I did not merely "cherry pick: a handful of private universities that are more expensive than Michigan. The vast majority of the top 50 private universities are more expensive than Michigan. As the list below clearly shows, 42 out of the top 50 private universities are more expensive. Among the schools that are cheaper are Caltech (endowment of $1 million per student), Rice (famous for being the best value among private universities), Harvard (endowment of $1.5 million/student), Princeton (endowment of $2 million/student), Yeshiva (niche school), Syracuse (not quite Michigan, eh!) and Northeastern (see Syracuse).</p>

<p>Columbia University
Tuition and Fees: $47,500
Room and Board: $11,500
$59,000
[Fees</a> and Expenses | Columbia College](<a href=“Columbia College Bulletin < Columbia College | Columbia University”>Columbia College Bulletin < Columbia College | Columbia University)</p>

<p>George Washington University
Tuition and Fees: $46,000
Room and Board: $10,500
Total: $56,500</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon
Tuition and Fees: $45,500
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>University of Rochester
Tuition and Fees: $45,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $58,000
[Estimated</a> Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://enrollment.rochester.edu/admissions/apply/international/costs.shtm]Estimated”>http://enrollment.rochester.edu/admissions/apply/international/costs.shtm)</p>

<p>Tulane University
Tuition and Board: $45,000
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $56,500
<a href=“https://tulane.edu/financialaid/cost/index.cfm[/url]”>https://tulane.edu/financialaid/cost/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Tuition and Fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $57,000
[Financial</a> Aid:: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute](<a href=“http://admissions.rpi.edu/aid/index.html]Financial”>Financial Aid | Admissions)</p>

<p>Tufts University
Tuition and Fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,500</p>

<p>University of Chicago
Tuition and fees: $44,500
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $57,500</p>

<p>Brandeis University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $57,000
[Cost</a> of Attendance Calculator | Office of Student Financial Services | Brandeis University](<a href=“http://www.brandeis.edu/sfs/tuition/costs.html]Cost”>http://www.brandeis.edu/sfs/tuition/costs.html)</p>

<p>Brown University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $11,000
Total: $55,000</p>

<p>Duke University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,500
[JHU</a> Student Financial Services | Prospective Students | Freshman & Transfers | Cost](<a href=“Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University”>Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University)</p>

<p>New York University
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $16,000
Total: $60,000</p>

<p>University of Pennsylvania
Tuition and Fees: $44,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Cornell University
Tuition and Fees: $43,500
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>Northwestern University
Tuition and Fees: $43,500
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $57,000</p>

<p>Boston College
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $55,500
[Financial</a> Aid Award Letter Info: Cost of Attendance - Office of Student Services - Boston College](<a href=“http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/ltrcost.html#undergrad]Financial”>http://www.bc.edu/offices/stserv/ltrcost.html#undergrad)</p>

<p>Boston University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $56,000
[Cost</a> of Education for Undergraduates Financial Assistance | Boston University](<a href=“http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/]Cost”>http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/)</p>

<p>Emory University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Tuition: $55,000
[Financial</a> Aid - Emory College - Cost of Attendance](<a href=“Apply for Financial Aid | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>Apply for Financial Aid | Emory University | Atlanta GA)</p>

<p>Georgetown University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,00
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>University of Notre Dame
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $55,000</p>

<p>University of Southern California
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $55,000
[USC</a> Financial Aid - Applying & Receiving Financial Aid - Undergraduate - Costs](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/costs.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/costs.html)</p>

<p>Wake Forest University
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $11,500
Total: $54,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance](<a href=“Student Financial Aid | Wake Forest University”>Undergraduate Costs & Fees | Student Financial Aid | Wake Forest University)</p>

<p>Washington University-St Louis
Tuition and Fees: $43,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $56,000</p>

<p>Fordham University
Tuition and Fee: $42,000
Room and Board: $15,500
Total: $57,500
<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/images/finaid/fclc%201213%20budget.pdf[/url]”>http://www.fordham.edu/images/finaid/fclc%201213%20budget.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Lehigh University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $11,000
Total: $53,000
[Lehigh</a> University: Undergraduate Admissions: Tuition & Financial Aid: Tuition & Costs](<a href=“http://www4.lehigh.edu/admissions/undergrad/tuition/costs.aspx]Lehigh”>http://www4.lehigh.edu/admissions/undergrad/tuition/costs.aspx)</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $54,000
[MIT</a> - Student Financial Services](<a href=“MIT Student Financial Services”>MIT Student Financial Services)</p>

<p>Southern Methodist University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $55,500
[SMU:</a> Financial Aid - UG Costs](<a href=“http://smu.edu/financial_aid/Costs.asp]SMU:”>http://smu.edu/financial_aid/Costs.asp)</p>

<p>Vanderbilt University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $55,500
[Costs</a> for 2012-2013 | Office of Financial Aid | Vanderbilt University](<a href=“http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php]Costs”>Costs: On-Campus or Off-Campus  | Office of Financial Aid | Vanderbilt University)</p>

<p>Yale University
Tuition and Fees: $42,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $55,000
[Yale</a> University Financial Aid > How Need-Based Financial Aid Works](<a href=“Welcome | Student Financial and Administrative Services”>Welcome | Student Financial and Administrative Services)</p>

<p>Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Tuition and Fees: $41,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $54,000
[Office</a> of Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees](<a href=“http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/FA/First/fytuition.html]Office”>http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/FA/First/fytuition.html)</p>

<p>Pepperdine University
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $53,000</p>

<p>Stanford University
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $54,000</p>

<p>University of Miami
Tuition and Fees: $41,000
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $43,000
[2012-2013</a> Cost of Attendance (New Freshman/New Transfer) | Enrollment Management | University of Miami](<a href=“http://www.miami.edu/index.php/office_of_financial_assistance/ug/ug_coa/ug_coa_12_13/]2012-2013”>http://www.miami.edu/index.php/office_of_financial_assistance/ug/ug_coa/ug_coa_12_13/)</p>

<p>American University
Tuition and Fees: $40,500
Room and Board: $9,000
Total: $49,500
[Getting</a> Started, American University, Washington, DC](<a href=“http://www.american.edu/admissions/transfer/index.cfm]Getting”>Transferring to American University | American University, Washington, DC)</p>

<p>Case Western Reserve University
Tuition and Fees: $40,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $53,000
[Undergraduate</a> Cost of Attendance :: Case Western Reserve University](<a href=“Financial Aid | Case Western Reserve University”>Financial Aid | Case Western Reserve University)</p>

<p>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
Tuition and Fees: ($39,000+$42,000)/2 = $40,500
Room and Board: $10,000
Total: $50,500</p>

<p>Harvard University
Tuition and Fees: $40,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $53,500
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Financial Aid: Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/cost.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/cost.html)</p>

<p>Northeastern University
Tuition and Fees: $40,000
Room and Board: $13,000
Total: $53,000
[Tuition</a> and Fees | Admissions](<a href=“http://www.northeastern.edu/admissions/costs/tuition.html]Tuition”>http://www.northeastern.edu/admissions/costs/tuition.html)</p>

<p>California Institute of Technology
Tuition and fees: $39,500
Room and Board: $12,000
Total: $51,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance - Caltech Caltech Financial Aid Office](<a href=“http://www.finaid.caltech.edu/coa]Cost”>http://www.finaid.caltech.edu/coa)</p>

<p>Syracuse University
Tuition and Fees: $39,000
Room and Board: $13,500
Total: $52,500
[Cost</a> of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html]Cost”>http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html)</p>

<p>Princeton University
Tuition and Fees: $38,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $51,000
[Princeton</a> University | Fees & Payment Options](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/cost/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/cost/)</p>

<p>Rice University
Tuition and Fees: $36,500
Room and Board: $12,500
Total: $49,000
[2012-2013</a> Tuition & Fees : Rice University](<a href=“Undergraduate Resources | Rice University”>Undergraduate Resources | Rice University)</p>

<p>Yeshiva University
Tuition and Fees: $36,500
Room and Board: $9,000
Total: $45,500</p>

23

<p>Alexandre,</p>

<p>Let’s go back to your original statement that I took issue with

</p>

<p>I still say your statement was incorrect. Michigan is not “moderately expensive,” it is flat out expensive. Using your stats, Michigan is the ONLY public institution in the top 50 most expensive universities (OOS). More importantly, unlike virtually every one of those private universities you mentioned, Michigan provides virtually NO financial aid to OOS students. For OOS stududents, average tuition ACTUALLY paid is probably the MOST EXPENSIVE university in the country (public or private). </p>

<p>At the very least, using your statistics, it is the MOST expensive public university, not one of the “more expensive publics.” Now don’t get me wrong, Michigan is a great university, but Michigan appears to have made a decision that it is going to limit its university to only instate and (relatively) rich OOS students.</p>

24

<p>MichorPlan, I agree with much of what you say. The only problem I have with your post is that it does not take into consideration Michigan’s reality. Unfortunately, what choice do public universities have? Private universities whom you seem to respect, make 50% of their students pay full price, while at Michigan, a wopping 60% pay $12,000 or less in tuition. And that does not include OOS students who get financial aid and scholarships. Although not generous with OOS students, Michigan still meets much of demonstrated need. I estimate that only 30% of Michigan students pay full tuition. Can you imagine what would happen to the budgets of public universities if on top of charing IS students $12k or less they provided OOS students will 100% need blind aid…especially now, when states are short-changing public universities and cutting their funding? Michigan would not be such a “great university” for long!</p>

<p>Below is the percentage of students at those private elites who pay full tuition (keep in mind that at Michigan, the number is roughly 30%):</p>

<p>Wake Forest: 61%
Rice 60%
Southern Cal: 58%
Tufts: 58%
WUSTL: 58%
Boston College: 57%
Georgetown: 57%
Brandeis:55%
Duke: 55%
Lehigh: 55%
Boston University: 54%
Brown: 54%
Northwestern: 54%
Penn: 54%
Emory: 53%
George Washington: 53%
Vanderbilt: 53%
Chicago: 52%
Cornell: 52%
Johns Hopkins: 52%
American: 51%
Miami: 51%
Carnegie Mellon: 50%
Notre Dame: 49%
Columbia: 48%
Stanford 48%
Calech: 47%
Northeastern: 47%
Dartmouth: 46%
New York University: 46%
Rochester: 46%
Yeshiva: 45%
Pepperdine: 44%
Yale: 43%
Princeton: 41%
Syracuse: 41%
Harvard: 38% (given its endowment, they can easily afford to
Case Western: 36%
MIT: 36%
Fordham: 34%
RPI: 34%
WPI: 28%</p>

25

<p>Alexandre, I agree our disagreement is relatively minor. Also, you misinterpreted my post, I actually think that most private universities are a waste of money. After HYPSM and a few others, I question whether it makes sense to go to a private school, if there is a top public university in your state. Thus, if we lived in CA, VA, NC, MI or TX (and a few other states), D would have had to explain to me why the top-flight public university in our home state was not acceptable. My problem is that while Michigan is a great university, it is not at the same level as HYPSM and yet it charges virtually the same tuition (according to your list, higher than 2, lower than 3). Yes, Michigan is still a better value than say GW (why anyone would pay close to 50 grand/year to go to GW is beyond me), but it does seem to me that the other top publics do seem to be making more of an effort to not limit there OOS students to the wealthy. But you are right, I’m not sure what the solution should be.</p>

<p>BTW, thanks for posting the percent paying full tuition at the top private schools, I found that list fascinating.</p>

26

<p>“After HYPSM and a few others, I question whether it makes sense to go to a private school, if there is a top public university in your state…”</p>

<p>I agree MichorPlan, and I would not go beyond HYPSM unless if it were situational (Wharton for Business students, Caltech for Engineers, Chicago for Economics students etc…). I cannot understand why anybody would opt to attend any non-HYPSM school over their own state flagship if they happen to be residents of states like CA, MI or VA, unless they receive major financial aid that pretty much cancels out the cost differential. Even if one has the means, it is a waste of money. </p>

<p>“My problem is that while Michigan is a great university, it is not at the same level as HYPSM and yet it charges virtually the same tuition (according to your list, higher than 2, lower than 3).”</p>

<p>Although that is correct, as my posts above demonstrate, there are literraly over 50 universities and probably an additional 50+ LACs that charge as much (if not more than) HYPSM, and just like Michigan, none of those colleges or universities are better than them. I would say Michigan’s closest academic peers are Cal, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn and Wisconsin. Only Wisconsin is cheaper to attend. </p>

<p>I think universities charge as much as they do because students and their parents are willing to pay. Only 7,000 high school students from around the world get to go to HYPSM annually. The remaining tens of thousands of top students will have to go to colleges and universities that are one notch below, such as the top 20 or so LACs, the top 5 or so public universities and private universities ranked between #6 and #20 or so.</p>

27

<p>When I was growing up back in the '60s and '70s, Michigan was ALWAYS ranked in the top 10 (usually at #7) but then this magazine came along and one watched U-M slip and slip and slip … every year to where now schools like UCLA and the University of Washington and others have (supposedly) bested it in the reputation department. But the thing is, one day it’ll come out as a big firestorm of controversy that USN&WR took some dough under the table … and burned and falsified a lot of questionnaires over the decades. You’ll see, human egos and greed are not to be underestimated! Also, truth is in the results. When one factors in major competitions such as solar car races and such, then U-M I would think shines quite brightly! In fact, there was one recent major computer programming challenge put to the world’s top universities and U-M came in second (behind a Chinese school of which I don’t recall the name of), not bad!</p>

28

<p>I think you mean Washington University in St. Louis and not The University of Washington.</p>

29

<p>OtisTuttle, I agree with three if your points, but not with two of them.</p>

<p>Here’s where I agree:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Not only was Michigan considered one of the top 10 universities in the US in the 60s and 70s. Michigan was considered one of the top 10 universities in the US from 1850 until 1990. </p></li>
<li><p>The USNWR distorts the perception of universities in the eyes of people in the 15-25 age group. </p></li>
<li><p>There will be a day of reckoning where the data delivered to the USNWR will be highly scrutinized audited for consistancy and accuracy. For instance, there have been strange PA ratings by university presidents which will call for greater transparency in the compilation of PA data. In other instances, some universities “game” the rankings by presenting data in a flattering manner while other universities do not. Finally, the current methodology of the USNWR is clearly designed to measure the quality of private universities, not so much public universities. Given how seriously rankings impact applicant pools and yield rates, as well as the financial health of a university, the USNWR is going to be compelled to more critically analyze and scrutinize data. At the same time, it will likely tweak its methodology to measure relevant criteria while adjusting for public/private status. This will greatly even out the landscape of university rankings, with Cal likely leaping well into the top 10 while Michigan will probably be ranked among the top 15. This will not happen any time soon mind, but I can see it happening eventually.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Here’s where I disagree:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The USNWR does not reflect a university’s reputation or quality. Just because schools like Brown, Cal, Cornell and Michigan are ranked between #15 and #30 does not mean that their reputations weaker than schools ranked ahead of them. In academic circles, Cal, Cornell and Michigan are top 10 universities. In corporate circles, they are just as highly regarded. </p></li>
<li><p>Also, just because Washington University-St Louis (not University of Washington) and UCLA are currently ranked ahead of Michigan does not mean that their reputations have exceeded Michigan’s. In fact, most reputational ratings place Michigan alongside UCLA and ahead of WUSTL.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Clearly you have a better understanding of what’s going on than I do, Alexandre; too much data, theory and facts tend to give me brain cramps. But one thing I’ve often wondered about is what school did the owner of USNWR go to? Well, in truth, Methinks one would have to be God to truly know the real rankings of Universities, but it’s fun to hear and make arguments anyway.:-)</p>