Actually there’s a great deal of evidence. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/
In the rest of your post you offered some good general advice to him but you are wrong about this.
Read the essay “The Myth of American Meritocracy” by Ron Unz, which I provided a link for in my previous post to exlibris. The answer is, if there were no anti-Asian discrimination, the most selective schools would be about 40% Asian, like CalTech.
U of M omits your race from the application when you submit it on the common application, fwiw
@keiekei One of the most tragic aspects of college admissions is the inability of individuals to accept that they were not accepted. Instead they seek to blame their rejection on the grounds that they are white/asian/minorities/too rich/too poor. The most selective schools would only be 40% Asian if we disregarded all factors other than test scores. But test scores aren’t all that matter. And they are the subject of major controversy.
Also, what exactly does your definition of ‘merit based’ include? Are you suggesting that background, experience, special talents etc., are not worthy? Test score are biased. They favour certain groups, so we should exclude them if we are going for this fabled perfect meritocracy.
One of the great ironies is that “meritocracy” was a term originally coined by a member of the British Labour Party. He used it to describe a dystopian future where all human traits were discounted. It is the antithesis of what American higher education has always proclaimed to champion.
@b4sicallyid0work, your grades and test scores are not at all unusual for OOS applicants to the Michigan engineering program. Your grades are average for OOS admitted students, and your ACT scores are at/slightly above the median for accepted OOS engineering students. You aimed very high with your list of schools. OOS students can no longer consider Michigan a safety, especially for engineering. Your status as an Asian male didn’t help you, but it didn’t hurt you either. Michigan aerospace engineering is ranked #3 in the country. It is a highly competitive program. I’m not sure what your expectations were, or what makes you think there is racial bias involved.
@exlibris97 He didn’t get into Cal and UCLA too, both schools with 30+% Asian. All 3 schools are by state law race and ethnicity blind.
“I knew I most likely wouldn’t get into a top school. UMich was the last straw though, this one is just bs.”
Perhaps your essays demonstrated to the admissions committee the above atttitude?
Presumably, UM doesn’t redact candidates’ names from school transcripts or from the application itself. Given that, it isn’t too hard for admissions officer to relate a candidate’s Asian name to his race.
Universities avowedly and openly say they give admissions preferences to candidates who foster diversity as they define it, which includes race and socioeconomic factors. Courts allow such policies as more or less compliant with the US Constitution.
In some ways, that’s a good thing. It has positives, no question.
So, why deny that it exists when someone points out the downside of such policies? There are only so many slots in any given freshman class. Slots allocated to certain students for diversity related reasons are necessarily denied to others who don’t satisfy such criteria.
And, if diversity goals could be met by applying the same admissions standards to everyone, then they would be. Those goals can’t be met by applying the same standards, so universities apply different standards in some cases and this is openly stated by universities. It’s not a big secret.
As for UMich’s stats, they are not as high as you think. A 35 ACT is not “average” for U Mich and would not be average at any university that I know of.
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=379
@MyOdyssey Actually, admissions officers do not see your actual Common App. They usually view it electronically and, at least at universities at which I worked, most personal information was only viewed by the clerks. I’m not certain how UM views applications, but I understood that their clerks did “redact” identifying information.
As for your suggestion that universities are practicing discrimination while denying it, that’s a serious accusation. So far the courts haven’t sustained it. Moreover, slots are rare “allocated” to diversity candidates; they certainly aren’t at Michigan. But most universities would definitely accept a student with lower test scores if they otherwise had a strong application and suffered some sort of identifiable hardship or handicap. But it is pure fiction that such candidates are substantially less qualified.
Conversely, admissions officers also aren’t stupid. They know that some candidates have SAT tutors, go to expensive “application camps” and sometimes have private admissions “coaches”. When I worked in admissions we tried to compensate for this, but I have no doubt that many such applicants were admitted and therefore benefitted from an advantage as unfair as any sort of diversity preference.
Personally, I think it is fine if students want to blame race, legacy preference, athletic ability, regional preference etc.,for their rejection. If that takes the sting out of it, fine. Sadly, this is but a reflection of American society. We’ve brought our children up to think that rejection is abnormal. They seem convinced that if they have high test scores in particular, that “entitles” them to admission. It doesn’t and never has.
@rjkofnovi Agree 100%. The comment reflects the “entitlement” mentality that is so pervasive amongst many students today.
The University of Michigan is not allowed to look at race but other top private elites like Harvard and ivy leagues do. Average Asian test scores at Harvard are a lot higher than African American test scores. If Harvard did not look at race, it would be over 40% Asians like UC Berkeley and UCLA that do not look at race.
I promised myself that I wouldn’t post on this issue again but I needed to correct some misstatements by others. This board shouldn’t be used to spread fake news.
- As far as I know, Michigan state law does not prohibit admissions committees from seeing the names of colleges applicants. I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to post the text of the law that so requires.
- There's no evidence that Michigan universities voluntarily redact applicant names and the poster who claimed otherwise was unable to provide any specifics.
- Holistic admissions includes considerations of race. Anyone who denies this has his/her head in the sand. Here's language from the US Supreme Court decision on undergraduate admissions to the U of Texas:
“The University of Texas at Austin considers race as one of various factors in its undergraduate admissions process. Race is not itself assigned a numerical value for each applicant, but the University has committed itself to increasing racial minority enrollment on campus. It refers to this goal as a “critical mass.” Petitioner, who is Caucasian, sued the University after her application was rejected. She contends that the University’s use of race in the admissions process violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”
Reasonable people cannot dispute that holistic admissions includes consideration of race. To deny that is to deny reality.
- We have a poster here who was a multi year varsity athlete, who worked hard academically too and achieved a very high ACT score of 35 among other accolades. He doesn't deserve to be bullied by a bunch of anonymous internet posters who can't even get their facts straight. Stop with the Asian stereotypes and trying to portray this teen as someone who did nothing but study. Stop deriding academic achievement as something to be looked down upon. If you've ever competed in athletics, you'd know how hard it is to achieve at a high level academically while training as a serious athlete.
Accepted, 3.82W GPA, 32ACT, 6 AP’s, 1 Honors class, and 4 Dual Enrollment. LSA
@JPGator98 hi! I kind of remember seeing you on the deferred thread. Were you accepted EA, RD, deferred, or waitlist? Thanks!
@koomsbooms17 Deferred EA and accepted RD.
@Eeeee127 In the case of Harvard (and other highly selective colleges), you argument isn’t germane as they have neer pretended that test scores were the most important factor and have openly stated that they want a diverse student body. Indeed, as Harvard’s admission director recently stated, if they went solely by test scores and GPAs, the number of international students would be much higher.
I also find the discussion of test scores interesting given how unreliable they are held to be. The SATs have just gone through a major revision, and a growing number of highly selective colleges are making them optional.
@MyOdyssey You misunderstand how the Common Application system works. There is no need “redact” information. Applications are transmitted electronically. Each university decides what their individual admissions officers see. At many Ivies (and it is my understanding that at Michigan too), the personal information page isn’t displayed on individual screens, nor are actual transcripts (the latter being summarised).
I think that many people believe that admissions officers still receive a stack of folders. Some universities may still do this, but most review applications on computers or iPads.
I also agree that many students still “work” their race etc., into their applications, especially through their essays (this is what happens in California). However, in the case of ‘holistic’ universities, I saw things like geography etc., play a much greater role than race.
Has anyone heard about being on waitlist, accepted or told no spot available?
[B][size=4][color=#008000]Decision: Accepted[/color][/size][/b]
[B]Objective:*
SAT I (breakdown): Did not take
ACT (breakdown): Did not take
SAT II: 1420 (not sure of the breakdown, 680 math 740 reading i believe)
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
Weighted GPA: 4.3
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 1
AP (place score in parenthesis): Biology (5) Calculus AB (4)
IB (place score in parenthesis): N/A
Senior Year Course Load: Didn’t ease up, Two AP classes, 3 dual enroll college classes, and an online physics class
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.):Was a Boys State rep for the state of Michigan (Not an award but a good accolade on applications and likely had some impact)
[B]Subjective:*
Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): Football (3 year varsity, 1 year team cap) Basketball Track (Members) NHS (member)
Job/Work Experience: Worked part time since sophomore year, year round.
Volunteer/Community service: At a local church, for a youth sports training org, and at a local soup kitchen.
Summer Activities: Usually booked due to sports (football training). Boy’s state junior year summer.
Essays (rating 1-10, details): Cant really rate my own essays, they were well written and expressed interest in the school as well as the field of study I was applying for.
Recommendations (rating 1-10, details):
10 (Spanish Teacher) Became a good friend of mine throughout my high school years, had here freshman and junior year, loved me as a student and spoke on my work ethic and personality
10 (AP Bio teacher) The only 5 in her class, this one I chose because it focused more on the academic side of me. Talked about asking thought provoking questions in discussions and such. Also mentioned that I tutored a failing freshman to a passing grade, which I’m sure looked nice to them.
Teacher Rec #1 (rating 1-10, details): Above
Teacher Rec #2 (rating 1-10, details): Above
Counselor Rec (rating 1-10, details): Never got to see it, I imagine it was good but generally generic.
Additional Rec (if any) (rating 1-10, details):N/A
Interview (if any) (rating 1-10, details):N/A
[B]Other:*
Applied for Financial Aid?: Yes
Intended Major: Engineering
State (if domestic applicant): Michigan
Country (if international applicant): USA! USA!
School Type: Very small public school (100 graduating class)
Ethnicity: White
Gender: M
Income Bracket: Low (28K - 32K)
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): Possibly that I lived with my grandparents. Lost my mother at 12 and father lived out of state. makes me a minority demographic from University standpoint.
[B]Reflections:*
Strengths: Test scores, rec letters, GPA, and class rank (so mostly academics)
Weaknesses: Came from a school and small town with hardly any community service orgs, so that definitely weighed down on me.
Why you think you were accepted/waitlisted/rejected:Reasons listed above.
Where else were you accepted/waitlisted/rejected: N/A
[B]General Comments (if any):*
I wrote out applications to my second choice schools but applied EA to U of M. I did this to save money, if UM would have rejected me I would have than sent in the other applications that I already had ready and prepared. This kept me from spending potentially hundreds of dollars in application fees. Boo.
[B][size=4][color=#008000]Decision: Accepted[/color][/size][/b]
SAT I (breakdown): 800 Math 700 Reading 680 Writing [2180 Total]
ACT (breakdown): 33
SAT II: 800 Physics, 800 Chemistry
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 3.9
Weighted GPA: 4.5
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 5%
AP (place score in parenthesis): Biology (5) Calculus BC (5) Chem (5) Physics 1 (5) Physics 2 (5) European His (5) English Language (4) US History (4) Government (5)
IB (place score in parenthesis): N/A
Senior Year Course Load: 4 APs
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): won 2nd at state chem competition
Applied for Financial Aid?: Yes
Intended Major: Engineering
State (if domestic applicant): Illinois
Country (if international applicant):
School Type: Public school 300 class size
Ethnicity: White
Gender: Male
Income Bracket: Middle
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): none]