I think it would be beneficial for those of us admitted to this program to create a group where we can communicate with each other and possibly get to know each other. Also, we have to choose roommates so that is also a good way to find someone you like. Anyone, have any ideas?
Yeah that sounds like a really good idea! we could make a facebook group!?
There is a facebook group called umkc class of 2015
Congratulations to everyone else who made it! Hopefully I’ll be seeing some of you there. 
can someone tell me a little bit about the communication studies major? hows the workload? is it a difficult major to do? i’ve heard that bla is the easiest…
nkhullar, you would be best off emailing the Communication Studies Department directly. Just ask them to send you a sample B.A. Communication Studies degree plan for 6 year BA/MD students: [UMKC</a> Department of Communication Studies](<a href=“http://cas.umkc.edu/comm/]UMKC”>Home | Humanities and Social Sciences | University of Missouri - Kansas City)
I think HappytoGraduate’s post from the past is worth reiterating again (I’ve gotten his/her permission to repost it - it really applies to both out-of-state and in-state students). Also, I would add, starting from the beginning of this thread and PMing different people who are in the program now is also a great idea (hopefully they get notifications in their email as PMs so they can respond back to you), as well as going on Facebook and asking people who are in the program their opinion from different years:
================
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060598183-post1544.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060598183-post1544.html</a>
For those who have PM’d me, I’m putting this answer out here as well, so that this benefits everybody else as well:
Excerpt from a PM of a question that was asked of me:
I’ve been accepted to the UMKC six-year BA/MD program and I am out-of-state. As you know the tuition is very very expensive. I know that I want to go for medicine, but at the same time, I don’t know whether UMKC is a good fit for me or the place I want to do it at. Naturally, I also don’t want to kick out an M.D. acceptance, if this is my only chance to become a doctor. Which major should I go for so that if I do decide early on that the program is not right for me, I won’t be behind when I transfer somewhere else?
============================
Well first off, congrats on getting in. As you know there are many BA/MD programs some better than others, all of them competitive. The fact that you got into a combined program, means you have the study skills it takes to get into a medical school period, so don’t take it as “I will never make it to med school if I don’t do this program.” There are tons of people who received an acceptance to UMKC who declined it and went somewhere else. Hence, why UMKC usually gives more acceptances than spots as many people are GUARANTEED to drop. Apparently my year, there were 160 acceptances given out, and first day of Year 1 we had 120 students.
I am glad that you are looking at this seriously, many people dive into the program not knowing how compressed it really is, and only look at the beginning of the roller coaster and end of the roller coaster without looking at the loopty-loops in between. I know people who left the program and did the normal premed route as well, and got into damn good med schools. One of my friends actually ended up at WashU AND didn’t lose any time either. However, she left after the first year with no academic hiccups. She just didn’t like the intense speed of the program (i.e. taking Medical School Physiology as a sophomore in college) as well as the cutting out of many of the prerequisites and jumping automatically into advanced upper-level course work (i.e. not having to take General Biology I and II and jumping into Cell Biology even though General Bio is a required prerequisite for all the undergraduate students.) You have to understand many of the prerequisites are cut out for medical students in the program so it fits into a six year program. It is assumed that you have a working knowledge of those subjects. Remember, many students have taken AP coursework, so you’re assumed to be a cream of the crop student. If you don’t have the prereqs, at least as a UMKC medical student you are expected to pick things up quickly.
I work with many residents who do the normal 4+4, and they wouldn’t trade their undergrad years for the world. They studied and had a great social life. Not that UMKC does not, but since UMKC is essentially a commuter campus, there is much less than other places, and the workload can be very intense esp. if you’re not coming in with testing credit about 20 hrs. at least of classes in the normal semester.
Just remember in this program you do not get your summers off, which may or may not be a deal-breaker for you. I know that may not seem like a big deal, but for some, it’s hard to always go to school without time to recharge your batteries or do community service in the summer or get a part-time job etc.
Remember the two benefits you are getting from the program are:
- You don’t have to take the MCAT (which really is replaced by taking the USMLE exams which all med students have to take to be licensed)
- You graduate in six years, assuming you don’t extend. If you do extend, it’s usually for 1 full year, which means ANOTHER year of out-of-state tuition.
I would say cost is definitely not a benefit in your case, as you are out-of-state, I haven’t calculated for in-state whether it really is a “deal” for them.
You are right the tuition is VERY HIGH esp. for out-of-state students. Out of state tuition for 2008-2009, is for Years 1 & 2 = $46,304 and Years 3-6 = $53,866. That’s certainly not chump change. In fact UMKC has one of the highest out-of-state tuitions in the country, 2nd only to Colorado which charges $60,000 but it is for 4 years of med school. For UMKC, that’s $308,072 (You could send 2 kids to med school with that money) and that’s without considering the annual tuition going up every year, which it inevitably does. The loans collected and the interest collected would be VERY HIGH, and that doesn’t even include books, living, etc. Just so you know, UMKC does not allow out-of-state students to get non-resident scholarships. The medical school at UMKC is not well funded by the state, and they get expenses paid esp. through out-of-state tuition.
The major I would choose for you since you are unsure about going to UMKC’s med school but ARE sure about going for medicine is the Biology BA degree. When I went to UMKC the only option was the Liberal Arts degree, along with Chemistry, Sociology, Psychology, Philosophy, but no science bachelors degrees unless you wanted to extend and take longer than six years. This was because there was a huge fight between the School of Biological Sciences (SBS) and the Medical school which you may hear about from people. Now, I think that scar has healed between the two and SBS is willing to accept Medical School science classes such as Human Biochemistry and Human Structure Function to fulfill requirements for the Biology degree.
As you know the first year of college, no matter where you go, you are doing general education courses: General Psych, General Sociology, Freshman English, Sophomore English, US History, etc. for your undergraduate degree and at the same time doing the premed requirements.
As you know you would probably do 1 year of General Bio and 1 year of General Chem your freshman year and 1 year of Organic Chemistry and 1 year of General Physics your sophomore year for your premed requirements.
Thus, by starting to do the first year of your Bachelor’s for Biology, you’re just doing freshman premed reqs and general ed requirements ONLY which everybody is required to do.
This is the key part though: Strive to do well in all of your courses as much as you can for the time being. At the same time, you have one year from the beginning of fall to end of spring to ask around and find out more about the program, ask Year 3’s (who are taking basic sciences) , Year 4s (who are preparing to take boards), year 5s (who are taking clinical rotations), and Year 6s (who are applying for residencies), how they feel about the program. Don’t ask administrators as you will get the obvious PC answer. Ask the people who are affected by it: the STUDENTS themselves.
Ask them these questions: [AAMC:</a> Applying to Medical School: Thirty-One Questions I Wish I Had Asked](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm]AAMC:”>http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm)
Especially ask them how well did they feel their medical school courses prepared them for national board exams as well as how much they feel faculty and administration are helpful to students as a whole. You can ask Student Affairs for emails of students and they should be willing to give them to you, if not that should be a red flag to you. You will also meet medical students as well from student organizations and ask them for their candid opinions that you wouldn’t get at your interview, when everyone is on good behavior. Also, ask for the match lists in the past few years from Student Affairs and look them over and see how well people match in fields you may be interested in. Do people match at great programs, do they stay in the midwest or spread across the U.S.? What is the USMLE Step 1 average? How did the high scorers feel the curriculum helped in that regard? Those questions are very important. These would have been good to ask before you came to UMKC but just remember since you’re only there for the interview date, people will be glamorizing the program and telling you what you want to hear, not necessarily what you should hear. Write down what they feel so you remember but don’t rely on one opinion to heavily. The more people you ask, the more accurate your impression will be.
If you decide to stay great! You have no doubts and you can continue as the only extra sciences that the BA in Biology has in comparison to the Bachelor of Liberal Arts is General Bio I and II with Lab (which you’ve completed by now), and one semester of Physics. All other science courses required are exactly the same for both degrees (Anatomy, Micro, Genetics, Cell, etc). Your Science GPA will be better as you have a few more basic science courses to rely on than your classmates.
If you decide that it’s not worth the cost, or you’d rather get your Bachelors or MD degree from a more prestigious place, or the curriculum is too restricting, you don’t like being away from your family for long periods of time etc. then you’re ok. You’ve only done one year of general ed and premed reqs which you would have done at another school anyways. And you can transfer those credits somewhere else (Those credits will transfer as those courses are available at all universities). You can even decide to do another major as ONCE AGAIN you’ve only done general education and premed requirements. My friend that went to WashU for med school, for example changed her Bachelors to Business Administration when she transferred to another university, to finish her undergrad as she did not want to get her bachelors from UMKC and applied to med school in her fourth year of undergrad like she would have done if she had done 4+4.
If your only reason to go to UMKC is avoiding having to take the MCATs, please DO NOT COME HERE. It’s not worth being miserable at a place you don’t like to avoid one test, when it is replaced by two more tests: USMLE Step 1 and Step 2. You can’t skip licensing exams. There are commercial prep programs for the MCATs and with your established study ethic and motivation you will do great on the MCATs. How do I know? Because I looked at a practice MCAT after I finished my bachelor science classes and many of them I could answer quite easily (just not a few of the Physics questions as I didn’t have it in college, and I forgot what I learned in AP Physics in high school LOL).
Just remember, being that you applied to a combined BA/MD program, when many don’t know about them, makes it likely that you are motivated, focused, and enthusiastic to do well not matter where you go. That’s the formula to getting into medical school in the first place. A combined BA/MD program is just a different way, not the ONLY way, to reach the same destination.
Good luck!
I just happened to visit the Facebook group for the UMKC Class of 2015 and I wanted to comment as someone there had mentioned the MCAT, which I think is an important issue to bring up.
The person said:
“Personally, I think it’s a no-brainer even if you’re out of state. I am in state, a 4 hour drive from St. Louis, but the benefit of not taking an MCAT is something you may not fully understand now but will once you graduate and you have other friends who take an entire year off from school just to study for an MCAT, that you don’t have to take at UMKC.”
First off, I fully disagree with the first sentence. 48K/56K (or even regional tuition) annually is A LOT of debt for someone to take for 6, if not longer, years, not to mention the interest that will be racked up after 6 years (or longer) + after residency (as you definitely wouldn’t be able to make payments on a resident salary), after which then you will FINALLY be able to make payments. That’s A LOT of interest that will be racked up. Calculate it using the AAMC Monetary Decisions website HappytoGraduate posted.
Most of the out-of-state students were A LOT more stressed out and hypercompetitive than their in-state counterparts, bc for them, they were forking out an arm and a leg each semester. So while you may think one stress is being alleviated, it’s taken over by something else - huge crushing debt. Not to mention quite a few were from states that were not in reasonable driving distances (i.e. California) and they were very homesick and couldn’t go home as often as the rest of us who lived in Missouri, who could drive home even every weekend if we wanted to. For many out-of-staters, the culture shock of living in Missouri, esp. KC is one that many really don’t adjust to, if you come from a major city.
Just ask anyone who is in medical school or a doctor and see whether owing $243K or $321 K (for tuition & fees only, without the accrued interest) from a relatively unknown, unranked Midwest public medical school is the norm, in which a GPA is calculated from Year 1 all the way to end of Year 6, not just the medical school part. At least at most schools, basic sciences are some version of Pass/Fail (P/F, H/P/F, H/HP/P/F, etc.) and aren’t letter graded to calculate a GPA like in undergraduate courses.
Also as someone who was in the UMKC program and ended up taking the MCAT (post 1550) - it’s real annoying when people drive this test into hysteria mode. If you study for the MCAT with prep books AS you are taking your classes it’s a lot easier than when you start MCAT prep after you’ve finished everything. Besides, using books alongside, I did practice tests in the summer both from the AAMC and prep books. I don’t know one person that has had to “take a year off” to study for the MCAT, so that is ludicrous. Most students take Bio and Chem freshman year, and finish with Physics and Organic sophomore year and take the MCAT anywhere in Junior and even maybe first half of senior year. Most of the sciences on the MCAT are things you’ve done in AP classes: AP Chem, Bio, Physics (leaving only Organic which isn’t AP obviously). Not to mention the MCAT is only one part of numerous parts of an application. Also, if you are this scared of the MCAT, what will you do when you have to take the USMLEs that EVERYONE has to take?? This same thing happened to me my senior year of high school, you hear so many hysteria stories, that you’re tempted to take any avenue that you think cuts out one of those roadblocks, but there are 50 more in its place just as sizable if not more. Medicine is filled with standardized exams which you take your entire life: MCAT, Step USMLEs 1, 2CS, 2CK, 3; certification exams, recertification every 10 years, etc. so in seeing it this way, skipping the MCAT is not the lake of fire most high schoolers think it is.
You should be going to a medical school based on the quality and opportunities that it can provide to you to achieve your goals (you pay very good money, so you deserve it): to give you a good medical education (basic science & clinical), prepare you very well for the boards, as well as adequately be able to build up your application for the upcoming residency match in a field you may be interested in, esp. if you’re considering a competitive specialty (research and publication opportunities, for example, or big name letter writers).
That’s hard to have when the state funding is one of the lowest that they depend on students to foot the majority of their budget (the state only pays 6 million of a 40 million dollar budget for the med school):
[UMKC</a> wants cash infusion for med school - Kansas City Business Journal:](<a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html]UMKC”>http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html)
When medical school starts getting tough and harder to deal with, to get through, you will always revert back in your mind as to why you decided to go for medical school in the first place and why you decided on your chosen school. This will be very difficult if your only reasons to be at UMKC were 1. It’s six years (assuming you haven’t extended by then) and 2. I didn’t have to take the MCAT. You’ll be kicking yourself for years to come.
I will repeat this again, but it will probably fall on deaf ears (after all you guys are 18 so you guys are still enthusiastic and dare I say naive) to where you’ll take any early acceptance/conditional offer no matter how bad it may end up being, also as even HappytoGraduate (an alum), The Scunyon (who’s in the program now), etc. have said: If your main reasons for going to this program are to skip the MCAT and bc it’s six years, you will be very miserable at UMKC, especially since you will never get a summer off once you start the program. I know TONS of people who left broken financially and in broken spirits bc of realizing very little of what they were jumping into or not being adequately prepared for upper level coursework due to the many shortcuts taken by the program.
Oh, I remember reading that now. Congrats on getting into UPenn, obviously a great medical school. I am glad to see that you stuck to your goal and good luck to you.
I think it’s a no brainer that between doing an Ivy or top tier combined program and UMKC, it wouldn’t be a hard choice. Barring mitigating factors, it wouldn’t be a hard choice for a 4 + 4 either. That being said, there aren’t a lot of slots for combined degree students at conventional med schools (certainly not 120) and not every student that gets into UMKC is going to get into those programs or even be competitive for them.
I think the importance of the 6-year applicant to the application process as a whole is a little bit over stated on this thread. Combined degree applicants are a very small fraction of the whole application class. They are not viewed as the “cream of the crop” of the application process. The process is geared, as you now know, towards the 4 +4 student. For the students that are dead set on doing a six year program, I think one nice thing about UMKC is that they are going to be surrounded by other people their age who are basically in the same place in life. I would think it would be a little strange to be one of a few students who couldn’t legally drink in a regular program. That’s just one (albeit minor) plus I don’t think has been mentioned.
No doubt a lot of students get washed out in their first year and a half. A lot of pre-med students get washed out in a normal college as well. In the end, everything comes down to a motivation issue. I don’t agree that it’s fair to charge undergrads grad school prices, but I don’t make the rules around here.
As for the cost benefit, I think some really good information has been put forth about that on here and people should fully consider that. I fully agree that “avoiding the MCAT” is not a good reason to pick any 6 year program. It’s just one standardized test. I would submit that anyone who allowed the MCAT to be their major hurdle to getting into Med School probably didn’t want to go that badly.
At any way, I can fully understand and appreciate people wanting to give as much information to perspective students so they can make an informed decision.
What I don’t understand are the posters on here who seem to have a pathological need to run the school down or try and sway perspective students from it. By reading through some of these posts, you would think the school is some sort of evil force that is designed to suck the very soul out of poor, na
how do AP credits work at UMKC???
like im taking AP US history, both english APs, calc, and psych
will any of that transfer
To answer your question pinktennis92: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061235308-post1665.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061235308-post1665.html</a>
does anyone know what happens if I don’t take Chemistry I over the summer? Does that push back the chemistry series and put me behind?
i was wondering the same thing about chemistry…anyone know?
UMKC vs SLU med scholar vs Wash u
I have been selected @all 3.
Need to make a decision in the next 10 days.
UMKC $236K
SLU med scholar 95 K (under grad,with sholarship)+200K For med school=About 300K
Maintain GPA 3.5
need to take MCAT but Med school is guaranteed irrespective of MCAT
Good MCAT+ Good GPA…try other med schools also with a safety @ SLU
Wash u
230K for 4 years+ 230 K for med school= about 460 k
take MCAT
good GPA
Apply To all the schools
No guarantee of admission to med school
I appreciate any of your opinion.
thanks
I highly recommend taking at least Chem I with Chem I Lab in the summer. If you take it at UMKC or any of the other UM campuses you will get grade points which will be calculated into your GPA.
At UMKC, in the summer, Chem I and Chem I Lab are the first 4 weeks, Chem II and Chem II Lab are the second 4 weeks so make you sure you get the textbooks now and hit the ground running. If you’ve had AP Chemistry in high school it will be no problem, but if you haven’t had a college chemistry introductory course in high school, then you will need to be able to pick it up fast as each segment is only 4 weeks long.
<a href=“BIG-IP logout page”>BIG-IP logout page;
If you apply for and take a UMKC Department exam in Chem I (get at least a C), or take Chem I and Lab at another university/college/community college, you will only get credit but you will not get grade points.
Same for if you take the AP Exam or IB Exam in Chemistry you will only get credit for Chem I and Chem II with labs for both = 10 credit hours, but not GPA.
The good news is you’ve got good options. It’s better to have choices as opposed to not. I am not a 6-year here at UMKC, so I can’t give any special insight into that. However, I think you guys are selling yourself short with the “guarentee of Med School” thing. If you really want to go to Med School, you are going to go to Med School. If this is what you really want to do, you’ll have the drive and ambition to make it happen no matter where you end up or what standardized test they throw in you path.
Damn, WashU is absurdly expensive. Are they going to throw you any scholarship money?
As far as the med school tuition thing goes, I’d look towards value, but I wouldn’t get too wrapped up around the axle about it. In professional school, you are investing in your future business. Look at the average cost of starting a franchise restaurant (i.e. McDonalds), if I remember correctly it’s at least around $500,000. You have to invest money before you can make money. That’s not to say you shouldn’t try to get the most value for your dollar, I just wouldn’t let it be the definitive criteria.
I am assuming you visited all of the campuses. In the end, I’d go where you think you will be the most happy on a day to day basis. Waaaayyyy back in the day, I had the chance to go to WashU to play football. For some reason the campus visit really turned me off. So I went elsewhere. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made in my life, as I had a great undergrad experience at the college I ended up at.
It seems SLU gives you the most flexibility, however, it’s no small feat to keep a 3.5 in college. If you’ve done this well so far, I am sure it won’t be a major hurdle (just don’t do that thing that a lot of undergrads do and tube their first semester and have to play catch up for the next 3.5 years), but just something to consider. Also, I’d want to be 100% that accepting the SLU deal doesn’t prevent you from going elsewhere if you are so inclined.
Probably not any sort of definitive answer you are looking at, just my $.02.
Congrats on the options and good luck with your decision.
Thanks a lot…The scunyon
I appreciate it.
NO money from Wash u…Zippo
Happytograduate, how much of a strong chem foundation can be made within 4 weeks of each course?
I’m trying to compare the long-term value of getting lots of liberal arts courses out of the way in the summer so my chem background will start strong in the fall.
Rwishka, the point of taking at least Chem I with lab in the summer at UMKC (as you mention the 4 week interval) is to get the credit AND the grade points (to buffer your mandatory science GPA) so that you can take Organic Chem 320 in the more spaced out 16 week spring semester (it’s not offered in the fall) rather than the very short 8 week summer. If you took AP Chemistry or a college-preparatory chemistry course in HS, the chem courses will be a repeat of the exact same material. Many colleges do Chem I and Chem II this way with Chem I the first half of the summer and Chem II the second half of the summer.
As far as a “chem foundation” realize first you’re not going to be taking MCATs, so it’s irrelevant in the long run, and with respect to Organic although Chem I and II are technically prerequisites, Organic Chemistry is really very different from General Chemistry. Once you are finished with Chem I, II, and Organic you will never need the information from these courses again as they are premed courses (Chem 320 is technically not the “premed” version of Organic, the premed versions are Chem 321 and Chem 322).
The first summer of the program is very stressful as you are taking: Organic Chem 320, Organic Chem 320 Lab, and Cell Biology and quite a few people do extend in the program after that point. This is why people bring in some type of chem credit when entering the program early on so they are not stuck taking Cell Bio AND Organic with Lab at the same time in the summer.
With respect to taking liberal arts courses early, most at UMKC are so easy it’s not like you’d be helping your course load any as you do have to have a certain number of hours to remain a full-time student. Besides classes that meet regularly through the semester, many people get credit through AP exams, CLEP exams (which can be taken anytime) as well as liberal arts classes that meet only on designated weekends (1 to 3 weekends only and then you get 1 to 3 hours of credit), and even some that only meet through the Internet. For the liberal arts degree you only need 21 hours of Humanities and 21 hours of Social Sciences, with some courses in each already required by the School of Medicine - see radracer’s prior post showing the Liberal Arts degree plan.