@lolzers, my son told me that he did okay except for one station in which he had to address an issue regarding the medical and nursing staff at the ER. He has his last BS/MD med school interview this coming week at Texas Tech.Are you finished with all your interviews? Which other programs have you applied to and interviewed?
Good luck to your son.
I did not apply to any other BA/MD programs. I have some ambition to pursue entrepreneurship with programming/technology, which I really want to go after in a normal undergraduate setting. Of course I want to do a combined medical program, but not getting into one would give me more time to pursue that dream.
@lolzers, you are smart. I wish my son who do the same. I want him to go into computer science and entrepreneurship because I think he would be good in it. He is so technologically savvy and also at the age of 15, already is involved in investment of his own. But, he keep saying that medicine is his calling! (?)
@IMGDAD
LOL We all feel medicine is our calling. What has he done so far with comp sci and entrepreneurship?
@lolzers, he has not done anything formally and specific for comp sci or entrepreneurship. However, he started writing for online App Review and also the website iPadfan.com since he was in 7th grade and in fact he was the youngest contracted writer and reviewer for the companies. He has made quite a lot of money investing online, not only in stocks but also crypto-currency. He has written some softwares through learning programming himself. Which comp sci or business schools have you applied to? Wharton? Carnegie Mellon?
Wow that’s awesome!
Yes I applied to Wharton, Columbia, Duke, etc.
@lolzers, I’m sure it wasn’t on purpose but the link you posted of what HappyToGraduate said isn’t what you said it was. He/She was actually arguing the opposite.
<a href=“UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program - #1517 by amr725 - Multiple Degree Programs - College Confidential Forums”>UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program - #1517 by amr725 - Multiple Degree Programs - College Confidential Forums;
Not quibbling, just pointing it out to people who may be confused on clicking your link.
Yes. Thank you for the correction.
@Roentgen, I am not saying that UMKC is the same as going to Harvard Medical School. Obviously, Harvard has a much higher status and is a much higher ranked medical school. But how many people actually get the privilege to go to Harvard? The probability of going to undergrad, getting into Harvard Med School, and then getting into a top residency doesn’t seem too different from going straight to UMKC, and then trying to get into a top residency.
I think we’re all forgetting one major trait of UMKC that distinguishes it from most other programs and med schools. This one thing is the fact that UMKC allows people to be guaranteed an MD out of high school which is pretty amazing if you think about it. In the world we live in today, with the unemployment rate so high, the job market struggling, and the competition so nasty, its very hard to turn down a guaranteed program like UMKC. If someone really really wants to get into a competitive subspecialty in surgery or something and they go to UMKC, at some point they will get it. Someone can always leave UMKC and do a transitional year or do a research fellowship somewhere for a year and then apply to residency. My point is, it all depends on the person and how passionate they are about what they are trying to accomplish. If someone really wants something (and its something they have the aptitude/skills for), they can always persevere to get there. And no, I’m not going to be cliche and extend this to all circumstances. Because obviously, everyone can’t be Bill Gates no matter how badly they want it. However, the medical field is very different and there are generally certain avenues a person can take to get the jobs that they want to get in the medical field. In other words, its definitely not a high risk/high reward type field. In medicine, it seems as though you can usually expect what its going to take to get you where you want to go. By the way, UMKC has above the national average on the USMLE Step 1 and their students are at least TWO years younger on average than the rest of the people they are competing against.
Forget Harvard. UMKC could be compared to any top-tier or middle-tier medical school and it would be the same. Heck, compare it to their state flagship school - Mizzou. The same could be said for NEOUCOM, which also has a 6 year Bachelor/MD program, as well. UMKC and NEOUCOM are low-tier medical schools. PERIOD. That’s why they refuse to be ranked by USWNR both in their Research rankings and their Primary Care rankings. Top tier schools are known to send top graduates, as a rule (there may be very few exceptions).
Residency program directors don’t care that you graduated in six years. Six year BA/MD programs take shortcuts (they have to, in order for it to fit), which is not looked good upon. Program directors want those who they believe are emotionally mature and are competent graduates. They are well aware of the schools that send outstanding graduates and those are the ones they are trying to actively recruit.
Wrong. Again, you are being cliche for the sake of being cliche or feel that you have to defend the program no matter what bc your family attended the school. Getting into competitive subspecialties is dependent on your academic prowess and your ability to take advantage of research opportunities and infrastructure available at your school.
Wrong, and it shows me that you know nothing of what you’re talking about. You have to get an MD first, before starting a transitional year. A transitional year is an internship, it’s not the time to be applying for residencies. That job is to be done in the time you’re in medical school. People who only match into a transitional year only, are those who failed to match into a residency as an MS-4. Anyone can take a year off at ANY school. If you’re at a school that has great opportunities for research and go somewhere else, you don’t HAVE to take a year off, bc it’s already available to you.
Again with the lofty clichés with no bearing in real life.
Wrong. Medicine is DEFINITELY a high risk/high reward type of field. Why do you think medical malpractice and tort reform is such a huge issue for physicians? Do you think you’re just getting paid to write a prescription to give people pills? You think all success in medicine is, being able to study hard and do well on tests? Medicine is definitely a high risk/high reward type of field starting from medical school all the way to practicing as an attending.
Wrong. UMKC does not have ABOVE the national mean on the USMLE Step 1. They are usually at or right below the mean, although this varies year to year. They do not release their USMLE score averages.
@PursuitToExcel, you do not need to keep reassuring yourself that the UMKC program is the right program for you. You, and no one else, know yourself best and if you feel this is the program best suited for you, no one else can argue about that. Your parents both graduated from the program and so they also know the program well. Do you really think that they would push you to the program and not advise you against the program if they do not feel you are the right fit for the program? I met a Caucasian physician (yes, not “an Asian IMG Dad forcing his son/daughter to commit themselves to the program”) who also graduated from the program and she took her daughter there for interview for the program. She spoke highly of the program, acknowledging its strengths and its weaknesses. Again would she really have done so if she thought the program was not good for her daughter? She has another daughter who is at Brown UG and is in the process of applying to medical school.
@Midhelper, I was actually quoting PursuitToExcel, when I said that. He/She is the one who said:
Basd on @PursuitToExcel’s logic thus far I guess it’s bc they didn’t want it bad enough or didn’t try hard enough.
@Roentgen, when I said “do a transitional year” I meant after obtaining an MD obviously… I am not going to take advice from someone who sits on this forum and insults high school students who aspire to become physicians. By the way, you are wrong about the USMLE step one scores. Why don’t you call UMKC right now and ask them for yourself? I have been talking to other UMKC alumni and they do not think the same way as you. Some of them even matched in top specialties and are happy they went to UMKC. The fact that you are putting down your alma mater means that you regret what you did. It also means that you are not satisfied with your current status as a doctor or what not. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with the program but please don’t go around looking down on those who decide to attend the program. After all, they are becoming doctors and being a physician in any field is an extremely respectable profession. There are people who come from no name medical schools in other countries to the United States and are plenty successful in medicine and some even work for top institutions. Also, with the USMLE it is purely how much you study for it. When I went to the interview I asked some current students there about it and they all told me that studying for that test is a personal thing and there’s no where you can go or nothing you can do to give yourself an edge on it besides studying. I know many doctors and those who have had experience with the USMLE all say the same thing. Also, the perspective of medicine being a high risk/high reward field all has to do with what you are comparing it to. If you are comparing medicine to day-trading then obviously medicine is a lower risk field. I don’t know too many “good” doctors who have too much of an issue with the whole malpractice thing either. Yes of course there are certain medical specialties that are higher risk than others. In regards to your comment about taking advantage of “academic infrastructure at your school”, that is not the only way to build an impressive resume. Yes its good to take advantage of those things but you can also leave to find more opportunities. And again, if someone really wants to get into a competitive specialty and they have the skills and academic ability to make it through medical school, they WILL get into that specialty.
@IMGDAD, thanks again for the advice. This is probably the last time I will ever post/read this forum because I want to make this decision on my own and not be influenced by people’s opinions. Also just to make this clear, my parents are certainly not pushing me to go to this program. First things first, I have to be accepted to the program of course. I understand that every program is suitable for different types of people but do you agree with @Roentgen in that good opportunities aren’t available at UMKC and that it is a bad med school overall?
Your exact quote was:
Even if you meant doing a transitional year after obtaining an MD, it’s a well known fact that the further away from medical school graduation you are, your chances of matching in any specialty, esp. one that is competitive, decreases dramatically. Those who have matched into a transitional year only, are people who FAILED to match as an MS-4, into a specialty.
Do you think UMKC is actually going to tell applicants their exact average three digit USMLE score? They will say what every other medical school says, that is that they score at the national average and that they have a near 100% passage rate. I’m sure since you have access to this information, you’d have no problem in posting the average three digit score here on CC, for the benefit of others here, right? I am not insulting high school students who wish to become physicians. There are quite a few high quality Bachelor/MD programs (and not just prestigious institutions, either), out there.
I am not putting down my alma mater. I am quite aware of its tangible benefits and its downsides, which have been listed ad nauseum in this thread. Like I said, I got the specialty that I was interested and wanted, and I am highly satisfied with MY chosen specialty. Mind you Anesthesiology is not a very competitive specialty, so I was very safe in that regards. When you apply for residency, you will be compared to all other applicants from other medical schools. You will not be given brownie points or a leg up for having completed a six-year BA/MD program.
Malpractice insurance affects ALL specialties, not just high risk specialties. There’s a reason why states with tort reform laws get an influx of doctors wanting to practice there. It has nothing to do with being “good” (Nice try, as a back-handed comment towards me, but you failed in that regard, and just showed your stupidity). Your comment dismissing medicine as not being “high risk” is patently false.
One of the main ways to build your CV for residency, is to take advantages of the infrastructure and opportunities at you school, as very few people can just “take a year off” as loan interest accrues, unless one is independently wealthy or has parents who are wealthy. A student who is able to participate in opportunities throughout his 4 years will naturally be favored over one who did so for only 1 year. A medical school tends to take care of its own first in the match, before helping students outside of that institution.
On the one hand you say
and yet on the other hand you ask IMGDad about his opinions of the program, of which he himself has not attended or experienced, and whose only experience is attending a school in another country that was six years, and going to an interview where the goal of the school is to “sell” you the program.
That’s perfectly fine, but don’t say you don’t want to be influenced by people’s opinions. You just don’t want opinions that disagree with your rose-colored glasses, engrained worldview. Remember you’re the one that asked CC
That would mean only 55%-64% of people who enter the program end up finishing the program with their MD. That’s not a good sign.
If you think that the curriculum, faculty, infrastructure, research opportunities, etc. characteristic of each school have no effect and are of no significance and can somehow be alleviated by taking a year off and going somewhere else, you are deeply mistakened. Everyone believes that they will be the exception that breaks the rule, and most of the time, that is not the case.
I must commend you for your thorough posts. It’s obvious you have taken the time to go line by line, which is impressive. I also appreciate your different perspective, from a student who has graduated from the program. You have stopped the usual circle jerk that occurs in these types of threads (neurotic pre-meds and high school kids).
However, I’m curious about the time you have available to post on this forum. As a resident, shouldn’t you be working, paying off debt, dating, getting married, having kids, etc.? My dad recommended to me moonlighting after intern year to pay off as much debt as possible. I’m not attacking you, but I’m curious about how you have so much time on your hands.
Utopian based posts devoid of factual content are quite easy to respond to. Part of being a physician is being detail-oriented and I happen to be a fast typist and can put my thoughts together rather quickly (not bragging - you just mentioned having the “time” to go line by line). Premeds (esp. the ones in high school and on CC) tend to think they know what medical school and residency entails and tend to be very formulaic in their thinking. Trust me, I doubt I have stopped the circle jerk that occurs in these threads (you forgot to include their helicopter parents by the way)
Anesthesia is a relatively controlled lifestyle, even during residency. My workload is dependent on the number of cases scheduled that day, for the most part, not on the number of on the fly H&P admissions from the ER, hence there is much more downtime in this specialty vs. Internal Medicine, for example. While residency is busy, it’s not necessarily the hell that some make it out to be (although in some specialties, this might definitely be the case).
I can assure you that posting doesn’t interfere with my ability to work, pay debt, get married, and have kids. There are tons of residents and attendings who post on the SDN forum (check out the Anesthesia forum which is very active) as well, and I highly doubt it interferes with their ability to work, pay off debt, date, get married, have kids, etc.
Ability to moonlight, is very dependent on the specialty and your program. Not everyone is allowed or able to moonlight. Moonlighting is a privilege, not a right. Many times, if you’re moonlighting you may have to pay your own separate malpractice insurance. If you’re doing a specialty like IM, where you’re already working 80 hr. work weeks, you’ll have little to no time to moonlight or will be only able to do it sporadically.
Hey guys can you chance me for this program?
OOS
SAT: 1480/2400
GPA: N/A
Math Counts: State competition
State Science Fair Participant
Taken 3 honors High school classes
Ethnicity: Asian
Many people have told me that I have a high chance at this program.
1480 out of 2400? uh… I don’t know if that’s enough. Why don’t you have a GPA?
@juniorm213 I am currently applying for the program (instate) and waiting for the results. But I have quite a few friends/relatives in the program currently, so I’ll just give you my opinion:
One thing that they look at are ECs related to the health care field…like volunteering, shadowing, etc…to show that you are interested in becoming a doctor.
As for your SAT score, I would try to raise it. Their minimum is a 1040 (which seems really low), but you’ll be competing with lots of OOS people for about 15 spots.
Competing with OOS would make it harder to get in as oppose to in state. Also, if you are offered an interview, the interview is a huge factor for admission decision, at least that is what I’ve heard. If you are a junior, then I would try to increase your SAT and try to shadow and volunteer in order to be competitive.
@goodgamekids are you currently applying to the program?