Sorry about all my typos, I have a tiny touchpad and screen on my cheap android, sorry
@HopingMD, Wow, I’m surprised bc I printed it out immediately and made sure I brought what I needed, since I don’t live in Kansas City and would not know where to go to get what I needed. lol.
I interviewed at Rice/Baylor, Siena/Albany, Case Western, BU, Jefferson, Miami, VCU. That’s awesome you got an interview at MIT!!! I’m not surprised though bc your stats and CV are really awesome - so I think you might be superhuman! lol. That’s a real pickle to be in if you were to get into MIT vs. a combined program.
Were those the only combined Bachelor MD programs you applied to? I got rejected from Howard (expected as they tend to want to recruit minorities), NEOMED (expected as nearly all their acceptances are to Ohio residents), Brown (great that you got it! I didn’t know that PLME does interviews now), Wash U, UPitt. I could have applied to more but it gets tiring after a while. Would be nice if all combined programs had a standardized common application.
I thought everyone was friendly overall. I’ll be honest, I liked the 6 year aspect and not taking the MCAT (doesn’t everybody?), but I also have some reservations about the program in terms of the medical school, a lot of it being such a huge cost at 60 K per year, what students thought about courses, professors, matching, etc. Some of the students I talked to the day of the interview, I could tell were kind of faking being happy, while others I thought felt the program fit what they wanted to get out of it, some were very high ego about the 6 year thing. I think it’s a matter of “fit”, if that makes sense. The other places I interviewed, like Baylor, Jefferson, Case, emphasized their great residency match lists into certain specialties, ability for students to get involved in good research and publish, etc. Much more academic and prestige focused.
Maybe it’s just me but did you think there were “too many” Asians for a med school, or at least much higher than expected? It seemed like at least 50%. ha ha. I’m Indian Asian myself, but I always like to be in settings where it includes people of different backgrounds. I don’t want to go to a place where tons of kids only go thru it bc it’s the “Asian” way to do it.
But you’re not alone, I’m also having slight reservations as well, but I think it’s also bc we’re making 2 decisions (undergrad and med school) at such an early age.
@HopingMD, thanks bud!! Hope your interviews went well.
@PinkPrincess2014, WOW, you must have an airline pilot in your family, just kidding, but you interviews are incredible!! Congrats, you will be accepted a UMKC probably, and maybe one or two of the other accelerated programs.
I did apply to a BS/DO program, 7 years, and I have already been accepted. I am just not sure about being an osteopath physician, however, they had cadavers in gross anatomy. I was shocked to learn the UMKC did not have either prosection or dissection - they simply do not have cadavers! The DO school has prosection, but @nd year med students do the cutting.
I cannot comment about race, I go to a very diverse school and I see all of us as the same. But, the out of state people came either from California, Michigan, or Texas, with most from California. I thought that I was in San Francisco with all off the talk about California. Any out of state people from a different state, like North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, or Maine?
Re my concerns about UMKC: I thought the students seemed “over loaded.” Also, unlike the other medical schools, the UMKC students hung around the place, it was as if they had nothing else to do. The lack of cadavers. The schedule sounds excessive - 22 hours a semester, but when I looked closer it seems to be overstated; for example 5 hours for basic undergraduate chem (most colleges count basic chem with lab as 4 hours). Also, the medical intro fundamentals was 5 hours, which sounded like excessive weighting for a very basic class. And the “Anchor” class sounds like a “keep the seat warm” class. So I wonder what quality of education I will get there? Then the Asst Dean - I love the woman, she was so helpful and honest, bless her for tolerating me - she said that the Board 1 scores are low, but that the reason was because the students were not used to standardized tests like the MCAT. Ok, I believed that, but then she told me the faculty gives board type test questions on course tests and all students are required to take old board tests for practice. “Gee,” I thought to myself, “that sounds like UMKC students get a lot of exposure to standardized tests!” I believe the reason for poor board scores is that too much time is spent in clinic exposure and such. I mean, one class has you shadowing nurses (Yes NURSES) and candy stripers, etc at the hospital in order “to learn what everyone does in the hospital.” That seems to not be a great way to ace your boards… I am ok with learning internal medicine, but I will have a lifetime of clinic exposure, in med school I need to learn to be the best doctor possible! Med school needs to teach, clinic exposure comes later, and that is for me the reason their board scores are so low. And the BS/DO program I was accepted into, the match for the DO grads was 55% in general/ped/internal med, the rest were in specialties - whereas at UMKC is was over 67% in general/ped/internal residencies. Research, again, even the DO school had more research, at least in biochemistry for opiates, and the research opportunities at UMKC seemed weak. I just was not as pleased as I was this summer, but still, I am considering UMKC, as I have since I first learned about their program in 2008.
Would I go to UMKC? Well I have been accepted to a BS/DO program and I am still considering UMKC. And maybe it would even be better that being a bioengineer from MIT. So please understand I am concerned, but I am not saying it is a bad school - I am interested!
@PinkPrincess2014, with your stats, you are VERY LIKELY ACCEPTED! You were prepared for the interview, so you did not bomb at them so I would be shocked if you were not accepted. For the people I spoke to, many had much lower credentials, even those from out of state, it seemed like UMKC was the only program that would consider them.
Now a word of thanks: @UMKCRoosMD and @Roentgen thanks for all of your wisdom and advice! I cannot speak for others, but you both helped me, and in ways that I also used at other interviews! Thanks guys.
GOOD LUCK to ALL UMKC APPLICANTS
Thanks!!! I need all the good karma and vibes I can get. Oh, yes, I totally agree with you, @HopingMD, I’m used to going to a very diverse high school as well, where there are many races, which is why I was just surprised that it seemed so Asian heavy when I was there. I guess I expected more variety like my high school. I like being with different people, different backgrounds, different viewpoints, etc. which expands my mind and experiences. The UMKC BA/MD website of student profiles seemed to show the opposite: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/students/, or maybe those are the only students who volunteered to be on the website.
One of the articles I had pasted earlier in this thread, http://kcur.org/post/med-school-express, said, “Asian students make up almost 40 percent of the student population at UMKC’s medical school. That’s close to twice the national average at other medical schools,” so it actually makes sense with what I observed on interview day.
Are you sure UMKC medical students don’t get to view cadavers at all, whether they dissect themselves or get to view cadavers that have been prosected? What do they use to study Anatomy then? I forgot to ask that one. So great that you asked the hard hitting questions.
Oh, and yes, to @Roentgen and @UMKCRoosMD, thank you so much for answering all UMKC applicant questions. This thread and you guys have been the best at explaining this program thoroughly, vs. other BS/MD threads which don’t have as much traffic, which is probably why this thread has like 816.2 K views and counting. For those of us who don’t live in Missouri and have no connections or alumni friends, it helps us tremendously.
@PinkPrincess2014
I am not an “expert” on the cadaver policy, but from the questions that I asked (not to the Asst Dean) I was told that the founder of the school did not want students to start with dead bodies, so no cadavers! Don’t know if I believe it, but I do know that there are no cadavers. Anatomy is via models, cow hearts, cow eyes, electronics etc. The electronic dissection tables are cool - I got to study using one at Mayo during the summer. In later years there are some functions or systems class that have prosected head and necks that students can touch.
But for me personally, with all of UMKC’s emphasis on clinical exposure and hospital exposure, not being exposed to cadavers seems at best weird, and at worst a lack of medical education. A student that I spoke to last week said that since the emphasis is on internal med, the school sees no reason to have cadavers, that they see as something for future surgeons.
Like I said, even the DO school where I interviewed had cadavers, and all of the other MD programs had cadavers. This, along with low scores on the boards has me really questioning UMKC! I am worried that there is a defiency, that I will not get the best training.
Every BA/MD student I met said he/she was happy (actually very happy) with the UMKC med school. But, almost every student also said they would have selected a different med school if he/she had applied to more and gotten more offers. I do NOT want to feel that way in 3 years!! Still, I am keeping my options open, bbut what I saw and heard last week was very different from the summer presentation by Brian last July. Heck, I was ready to sign up on the spot if the chance was offered. Now, with a second tour and more information, as well as comparing it to other med schools, I am not sure. But, I sound arrogant, I have not been accepted by UMKC, and perhaps I will be rejected on April 1.
I still am considering UMKC, I have for most of my life, but I am just not so sure it is a good program.
Oh, and @PinkPrincess2014, please know that I was not saying you were wrong to mention Asian population, you are Asian. I am white and male, and I cannot even mention that, I would feel wrong personally saying that because white males have a history of saying terrible things. I went to France two years ago, and the thing that scared me the most was that a local would consider me as an “Ugly American.” I may not be good looking, but I sure did not want to be rude to the locals - it is their country and I was just a guest. So please do not feel for a moment that I was being negative to you. Thanks and good luck
Hey guys, this is Article #7 on the UMKC medical program:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2007/04/09/story5.html
Med school’s flat-lining misdiagnosed
UMKC institution flourishes, plans to expand enrollment
SUBSCRIBER CONTENT: Apr 8, 2007, 11:00pm CDT UPDATED: Apr 5, 2007, 4:12pm CDT
Everything seems to point to the demise of the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine:
-The school ranks almost last in state financing among U.S. public medical schools.
-A recent blue-ribbon report suggested focusing on UMKC as an urban university while recommending the University of Kansas as the region’s primary medical research partner.
-UMKC leaders included little for the health sciences in a $350 million capital expansion program announced last month.
-And one of the UMKC medical school’s teaching hospitals is nearing an affiliation agreement with the KU School of Medicine.
Fortunately, said Dr. Betty Drees, dean of the UMKC School of Medicine, all that writing on the wall is misleading.
Drees said plans are in the works to increase enrollment and graduates by about 15 percent during the next few years – not bad for a program some have written off.
The medical school’s enrollment currently is limited to about 600 – but not by demand, she said. One of only two U.S. medical schools that allow students to earn bachelor’s and medical degrees in a total of six years, UMKC attracts many more applicants than it can accommodate.
“I don’t think there’s widespread recognition in the community that we’re even here,” Drees said. “But we’re very popular with bright students across the country who come out of high school knowing what they want to do.”
Also popular with students is the school’s docent program, which teams groups of 12 students with physician/faculty members. With the supervision of these docents, students in years three through six diagnose and treat clinical outpatients at two of the medical school’s teaching hospitals, Saint Luke’s Hospital of Kansas City and Truman Medical Center, which is physically attached to the medical school.
UMKC’s innovative medical education program has been used as a model by several other universities, including Harvard, during the past decade, said M. Brownwell Anderson, deputy director for the Association of American Medical Colleges’ division of medical education.
“The UMKC medical school is great,” Anderson said. “But the schools that are really focused on the educational program get less attention than the ones doing the cutting-edge research; that’s just always been the case.”
As part of an effort to boost life sciences research in Kansas City, two of the UMKC medical school’s teaching hospitals – Saint Luke’s and Children’s Mercy Hospital – have discussed new academic affiliations with the KU School of Medicine. But Drees said she has been assured that neither of those affiliations would reduce her school’s faculty or its residency program, which currently sponsors 485 residents.
The only thing keeping the UMKC medical school from growing right now, Drees said, is the need for additional lecture hall space for basic science instruction. A new $10 million conference and wellness center to be started on the Hospital Hill campus sometime between 2009 and 2014 should address this need.
Bob Simmons, UMKC’s director of campus facilities, said the conference center project is included in a second, $270 million wave of construction projects for which UMKC Chancellor Guy Bailey expects to find financing and break ground within seven years.
The only health sciences-related earmark in the $350 million initial round of projects scheduled to begin in the next three years is $14 million to finish space in the new $60 million home of the UMKC pharmacy and nursing schools, which is nearing completion next to the medical school.
The second wave of construction, however, will include the conference center, a $70 million research annex to the pharmacy and nursing building, and a $50 million medical office and clinical research building, Simmons said.
UMKC’s health sciences schools receive about $35 million a year in external financing for research, Drees said. KU Medical Center – home of KU’s schools of medicine, nursing and allied health – receives about twice that amount.
Therefore, KU Med has been chosen as the foundation upon which to build a world-class academic research anchor for the Kansas City region’s life sciences initiative.
According to a 2005 blue-ribbon task force report on higher education, UMKC should focus on its urban university role – in part because its medical school was receiving only $6 million of its $40 million budget from the state, making it dead last in the country in terms of state support.
Drees reported last year that the school had pulled out of last place – to 72nd out of 76 U.S. public medical schools. And she’s optimistic about continued progress in the future.
“If the state increases our funding in the future, as it should,” she said, “we would be able to invest all the additional revenues directly into the research component.”
Even as things stand, UMKC has strong pockets of research in areas such as shock trauma, bone biology and women’s health, she said. In addition, faculty members at the Saint Luke’s Mid-America Heart Institute are among the nation’s leading cardiovascular researchers, Drees said, and she is in the process of recruiting an endowed chair in cancer research.
“We have not had the money to set up large research empires, and that was never the goal,” said Dr. Marjorie Sirridge, a professor emeritus and former dean of the UMKC medical school. “But we do a splendid job of educating young physicians.”
Sirridge and her husband were on the faculty of the KU School of Medicine when they were recruited to help launch the innovative new medical school on Hospital Hill in 1971.
Thirty-six years later, Sirridge said, KU’s medical school has nothing on UMKC’s in terms of medical education.
“Our medical students do as well as KU students on examinations,” Sirridge said. “They match as well for residencies, and they have successful careers. About a third of our graduates are in academic positions, which I think says that we stimulate our students. And the number of our graduates who are now physicians in this community is amazing.”
Article #8 on the UMKC med program, a little farther back in time though: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/1997/12/22/story1.html?page=all
Hey @HopingMD! Just to give you more context to make an informed decision on some of the things you mentioned, I’ve split it into 2 responses since there is a character limit.
Hospital Team Experience
The one class you were talking about on shadowing nurses and non-physicians, is this course. It’s a 2 week experience at the end of Year 1 which you complete at the hospital where you did Year 1 Docent. When every other UMKC undergrad leaves at the end of finals, you stay for 2 more weeks to complete this. The purpose of it is not to prepare you for the boards. In Year 1, as a 17/18 year old, you won’t be taking anything that even remotely prepares you for boards. As a physician, you realize that for an entire hospital to work, you need a lot more than just physicians, and to appreciate that, by seeing what they do. Honestly, I would say my one complaint is that I would much rather have done it throughout Year 1 or in the second semester of Year 1, and get 2 extra weeks for vacation, but as far as the purpose of it, it serves that purpose well, I think.
Credit hours
Here is the policy on how undergraduate credit hours are calculated: http://www.umkc.edu/provost/policy-library/documents/AcademicCreditHourEquivalenciesPolicy.pdf
So, for example, in a normal 16 week semester, Year 1 Anatomy lecture meets for about 3 hours a week. So it’s worth 3 credit hours. The same usually works for MED classes in the first 2 years - LBMS (1 credit hour), Medical Terminology (1 credit hour), Fundamentals of Medical Practice (5 credit hours). These classes are all graded Pass/Fail only.
The anchor courses are more a new thing that just started Fall 2013, and that’s for your undergraduate degree that comes from the UMKC undergrad university. The med school has no say in that change really. It affects all undergrads. The one thing that is stupid I think is that if you leave UMKC, very few of those anchor courses probably transfer to other universities
Anatomy
Year 1 you take undergraduate-level Anatomy lecture with Anatomy Lab. The lecture is a normal didactic lecture in an auditorium and lab is where you work with anatomical plastic models and looking at slides under microscope for basic histology. They were 2 separate classes with separate grades.
Year 2 you take medical school level Anatomy in Human Structure Function. Human Structure Function is Gross Anatomy, Histology, Embryology, Physiology, and some Biochemistry thrown in. It’s taught by organ systems. When I had it, there were lab sessions, where you could look at anatomical models and looked at prosected cadavers to study certain cases to appreciate clinically relevant anatomy. It was kind of funny, bc as medical students we didn’t dissect but in the same anatomy course taught to dental school students (the professors were the same for both), dental students dissected cadavers. Have they now taken out even prosected cadaver viewing in that course? If so, that’s really a shame. I would double check this with a student who is there now who took the class.
Years 4-6 you can take anatomy dissection electives that are 1 month in length, which are only offered specific months:
–Thorax and Abdomen (http://med2.umkc.edu/electives/browserecord.php?-action=browse&-recid=226)
–Head and Neck (http://med2.umkc.edu/electives/browserecord.php?-action=browse&-recid=225)
–Upper and Lower Extremity Cadaver Dissection (http://med2.umkc.edu/electives/browserecord.php?-action=browse&-recid=1906)
The ones I knew who took the electives were usually people who were going into a surgical specialty or who felt their Anatomy knowledge for Step 1 was weak and had room in their schedule.
Part 2 response to @HopingMD
Research
Research, both clinical and basic science research, has always been a huge weakness for UMKC’s med school. It takes a while to build up a big enough name to attract smart and intelligent people who conduct biomedical research. As a medical student here, you really have to be proactive and look hard to find something that is of interest to you and that will help you for residency applications. It does seem like at least now, they are more organized when it comes to helping students who are interested in finding research.
You can see here:
http://med.umkc.edu/research/
http://info.umkc.edu/cures/?page_id=12
http://www.umkc.edu/mubig/default.asp
http://info.umkc.edu/news/three-kansas-city-health-sciences-schools-partner-in-consortium
If you’re going for something competitive, then having research publications will matter. There are people who take one year off to do this somewhere else, but it’s obviously easier if you are able to do research while you’re in medical school.
Basic Sciences and USMLE Step 1
The USMLE Step 1 exam is an important multiple choice exam. But that doesn’t mean the sole or even the majority of the job of a medical school is to prepare you for that 1 exam. More on this in a little bit. Medical school and medicine in general really is a lot more than teaching you the science or medical facts, and it’s supposed to prepare you for that reality. Having clinical exposure is important bc patients don’t follow the textbooks, and bc when you hit internship and residency when you start getting paid, no one is going to give you that exposure or reteach you something they think you should have learned in medical school.
First, just as an FYI, UMKC has never been great at teaching basic sciences. It’s a long history that I think @PinkPrincess2014’s Article #8 touches on, but this has always been the case. Certain courses have high turn over in teaching faculty, but it’s well known by students and by alumni, that UMKC’s strength is not really in USMLE Step 1. The problem with this is that USMLE Step 1 is a big thing when it comes to being able to apply for certain specialties where having a high USMLE Step 1 score is pretty important. It’s kind of sad bc when it comes to the ability of being a physician, USMLE Step 1 is not very predictive of how good you will be but how well you take exams, but that is just how the residency process work. Still Step 1 isn’t the only factor, since you still have to get good rotation grades, but having a very high USMLE Step 1 score can open up a lot of doors.
I think it’s an exaggeration on that person’s part to say to you that UMKC’s lower Step 1 scores are because students don’t take the MCAT. There are other BS/MD programs where students also don’t take the MCAT, http://www.collegeadmissionspartners.com/bsmd-programs/bsmd-programs-dont-require-mcat/, and they do very well on the USMLE Step 1 – i.e. Northwestern.
I’m very biased, but I don’t think UMKC med students are dumber than other medical students. There might be lazy people here and there, but for the ones who stayed in the program, students wanted to learn, and they wanted to do well on the boards. All of us study hard for classes especially since they are letter graded, and do the preparation necessary independently to study for Step 1.
I think there are several factors that contribute to our lower board scores, but one contributor is that we don’t take that many undergraduate classes before jumping into medical school classes. You don’t get enough undergrad “practice” learning how to study for upper level science classes. They could easily change this, but then the program would have to be 7 or 8 years.
I had the same basic science professors who are current teaching now, except maybe Biochemistry, as the guy just recently retired. I think as a whole, the faculty are nice people and genuinely want to help. That being said, I would hardly say their course tests had board type test questions. They may think they do, but they really don’t. I also don’t think the teaching quality is the best, although there are notable exceptions. The practice board exam we take as med students at the end of Year 4, is more to allow us to sign up for boards, it’s not for practice. If you don’t do well enough on it to pass, then you aren’t allowed to sign up for the real thing and take it.
When I was there, there were always yearly complaints from students that classes weren’t good at preparing students for board exams. I would ask current students who have taken the exam, about how classes are now, but realize different people will say different things, and not everyone will be as forthcoming. Like other UMKC students, I ended up taking a Kaplan course also, and I owe doing well on it more to that class.
*****One thing that gets thrown around a lot about UMKC is that UMKC med students do better on USMLE Step 2 bc we do a lot more clinical stuff.
1 - At all medical schools, students usually do better on Step 2 than Step 1 bc it's more clinically relevant and in your third year you rotate on the clinical side.
2 - UMKC's Step 2 average isn't higher than other schools even though we have a lot more clinical exposure.
The UMKC average USMLE Step 2 score in 2012 was 229: http://med.umkc.edu/docs/sa/announcements/2013/InTheKnow_07-22-13.pdf
The national average USMLE Step 2 score in 2012 was 237: http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm
Match Lists
Realize that how a medical student chooses their specialty is a complex process. It’s a little difficult for those not in med school to understand yet. At most medical schools, a large majority of the class will be going into Internal Medicine/Pediatrics/Family Medicine. The people in the first 2 specialties generally do a fellowship - called a subspecialty, so they will not be practicing primary care medicine when they are done.
Where we’re lacking is in matching many UMKC students to competitive specialties: Plastic Surgery, Radiation Oncology, Dermatology, Ophthalmalogy, Orthopedic Surgery (this one has improved a lot), Urology, Neurosurgery, Radiology, etc. This job is even harder to do if you don’t have a home residency program at your medical school. It doesn’t mean that it is impossible, but if you look at prior lists starting from 2003, which @UMKCRoosMD posted in this thread, you will see a pattern.
@Roentgen What advice would you give to prospective students seeking to go into more competitive specialties like dermatology, ophthalmology, and radiology? Would you also say that the clinical aspect of the program pushes students more toward med/ped because that was mainly what they were exposed to?
Also, how was campus life, in terms of expenses, needing a car, recreation, and support of the staff. I know they say that the environment competitiveness is reduced, but obviously it will always be present, what would you say are the most competitive aspects of the program?
@ang331,
As far as campus life:
—Year 1 med students are required to live in the dorm and purchase a meal plan, so that will take care of most of your expenses that people who live off campus in apartments have: paying rent, buying food and drink, etc. UMKC is mainly a commuter campus university, which means most people don’t live on campus in dorms.
—I would definitely have a car. It wasn’t essential in Year 1, but by the time 2nd semester started, almost everyone had one, so you’re not dependent on someone just for getting groceries. Same for driving to Docent, esp. if you’re assigned to a hospital far away. You’ll want a car to get used to driving all over KC which is laid out a little differently than most cities, and get used to driving in winter weather, especially in snow, and once you move out at the end of Year 1.
—As far as recreation, there is Swinney Gym, there are fraternities/sororities and school organizations available, great restaurants and things to do in the KC area. They recently renovated and built a Student Union on the undergrad campus. I think it does initially require a major adjustment for people not from KC, and especially those who are coming from places like California, New York, Chicago, Florida, etc. KC will just never be hopping like those places, but people do find places to eat, drink, go to clubs, etc. There at parties at UMKC but people also go to Lawrence, KS at KU for parties also: https://colleges.niche.com/university-of-kansas/party-scene/. Being flexible is key.
—The support staff changes and can vary in quality, but there are Year 1 & 2 ETCs who help you with your schedule, SI instructors who can help with classes, many of them are med students who tutor in Gen Chem, Anatomy, Micro, Organic Chem, etc. We used to have Year 2s who would sign up for their Year 1 mentee beforehand and help us out from the beginning, and give old previously released course exams, etc. collected over the years, give us help and guidance on things, etc. I think that has now changed to the Peer Mentor program but I don’t know how similar it is to what I had: http://med.umkc.edu/accepted/peer-mentors/
—As far as competitiveness, I think what decreases a lot of it from what it could be is the feeling of being “already in medical school”. You take many if not most of the same classes together which helps you get to know people. I think every medical school class will have the few people who tend to be more competitive or the more anxious type, but those are very few. I don’t think there is a situation where you’re actually directly competing against someone else for a grade. I do think the stress of the program can vary at certain points and that can affect people: i.e. maintaining your grades at or above the required science GPA so you don’t have to extend, Step 1, etc. Hypothetically, if a lot of people leave or extend in your class, it could potentially leave behind the more competitive people but I think a lot of times, we want others in our class to stay with us, so people aren’t shy to study together in groups. It’s possible you could have a rotation situation in Year 5, where someone feels they have to show they are doing better than their student teammates, but those type of things usually backfire and it’s not usually in your best interest since residents are pretty good at picking those things up. So TL;DR I don’t think it’s the direct competition but more just the inherent stresses of the program that people react to.
@Roentgen Thank you so much! That really helped a lot!
@ang331.
UMKC does have residencies in Ophthalmology and Radiology. They aren’t top-tier, well-known programs, but at least the problem of having a home residency is out of the way for you. So when it comes to doing research and getting involved that really shouldn’t be much of a problem. The KC Free Eye Clinic was also started by a medical student, 2 years below me: http://kcfreeeyeclinic.com/about/index.html that students are heavily involved in.
Those 2 departments, Ophtho and Rads, have improved when it comes to research, mainly bc of changes in leadership and also recruiting people who bring in NIH money to do research. I’ve heard varying things about how supportive the UMKC Ophtho Department is to UMKC students in applying for residency, but heard good things about the Rads program. That being said, I haven’t seen the overall number of UMKC students matching into Ophtho and Rads change much when looking at match lists.
I think Dermatology is more difficult bc UMKC doesn’t have a Dermatology residency. The University of Kansas School of Medicine, which is close by, does have a Derm residency, but it doesn’t count as a home residency program for us, and you’re still viewed as a visiting medical student, the same way if someone from their med school would be viewed as a visiting student at our med school. Med schools always want to take care of their own within reason. My class had 1 person match into Derm, and that was after the last one being in 2003. I’ve seen match lists improve somewhat in this area, but I think how someone matches into Derm can have individualized reasons since there are so few spots in Derm in the entire country.
For any competitive specialty, you usually want a good combination of good grades, good rotation grades, great USMLE Step scores, and research publications in the field you’re applying for. Research is more like icing to finish the cake. At UMKC, your grades are mainly measured through your cumulative Year 1-6 GPA (science GPA is only used for promoting) and your rotation grades are measured by the number of Honors grades you earn from Year 3-6 (some rotations are harder to get Honors than others). If you can try to get into AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) Honor Society, I would shoot for that as well. All of this is easier said than done, of course.
This is solely my opinion but I think the exposure at UMKC more towards Internal Medicine does push a lot of students to go for residencies in Internal Medicine or combined Internal Medicine/Pediatrics called “Med/Peds” for short. I think students naturally feel more comfortable after doing 6 months of inpatient Internal Medicine (when most med students do only 2 months) and 4 years of once a week, half-day outpatient Internal Medicine clinics (when most med students only do 1 month in their 4th year, if at all). You could do that much exposure for any specialty and the person would naturally feel more comfortable in it, just bc you’ve done it for so long. Realize that most US medical graduates don’t just stop at IM or Med/Peds, but can further specialize in something like GI, Cards, Rheumatology, Heme/Onc, Allergy, Nephro, Endocrine, Infectious Diseases, etc. some of which are competitive.
I also think by the time you get your USMLE Step 1 score back, you’re much more aware of which specialties are reasonably still available to you. Since UMKC’s average Step 1 score isn’t the highest, it isn’t surprising that people who still want to be specialists but just aren’t competitive for Derm, Ophtho, Radiology, Ortho, etc. go into Internal Medicine or Peds and then specialize after that.
Hope that makes sense.
@ang331, you’re welcome. Sorry for the long posts - since your questions are really good and required explanatory answers. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.
@Roentgen, thank you for all the information you provided. They help a lot. I just wonder based on your personal experience, are there any aspects of the UMKC program that does better than others and provides unique advantages that other medical schools don’t provide. I see more negative comments of the UMKC program on this forum. I am just curious if there are any good things about the program.
@efr009, Honestly, I don’t know what UMKC necessarily does BETTER than other medical schools since that’s hard to say without also having attended other schools. I think many would say it’s the early clinical exposure, but I think it is a little debatable how much of an advantage this early clinical exposure gives to students when it comes to getting certain programs or certain specialty residencies. I think for some people, graduating in 6 years and no MCAT is a huge deal to them. For others, it’s not a big deal and not worth the pace of the program - which is why the attrition rate (leaving the program altogether) and extension rate (finishing in 7 or 8 years) is quite high.
I think if you’re someone who is set on primary care, then UMKC will probably fit your needs no matter what, although if you look at rankings (which aren’t perfect), UMKC is not the best public medical school in the state for primary care, that would be University of Missouri-Columbia: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-missouri-04059. This is just my opinion, but if you’re going solely for primary care, then medical school in general is probably overkill, esp. financially, vs. becoming a PA or an NP.
@Roentgen A BIG THANK YOU!!! Thanks for all of the information and insight. I cannot speak for others, but for myself, I say, “Please keep doing long posts!” Really, please - I know it takes a lot of time, but the information and wisdom is so great for us newbies.
I was a little disappointed with the way the interview day went, the summer event was so organized, including the tours and information, whereas the interview day had more bumps, and information came out that I did not find positive. I agree with you, the Asst Dean’s reasoning for the low step 1 boards being due to the lack of taking the MCAT did not make sense. That reasoning and lack of trying to develop a plan to address the problem troubled me. If I find a deficiency, my goal is to solve it, I try to find a way to solve it, rather than find an excuse.
Also, I was troubled with the cost - remember, I am out-of-state, so ouch $$$. @Roentgen, you put in words the issue that was troubling me, but which I could not put my finger on, namely with such a high primary care match, the tuition for UMKC seems unreasonably high. Even if I could become a instate resident (which I will try to get), the cost seems very high for primary care. The DO school that accepted me in its accelerated program has 45% primary care match, and more EM, ortho, etc matches… Plus, the tuition is lower and scholarships are available in that program. So if I want to be a primary care physician, then I keep asking if UMKC is too expensive? And, if I do not want to be a primary care physician then I keep asking is UMKC the right school? What is the answer? I do not know.
I also agree that all of the clinical exposure may not be such a plus. I have spoken to MDs and residents since I got home, and they are doubtful of the real value so much clinical exposure, especially in undergrad years.
But, I like the clinical exposure. I want to do more than study, I want to learn by experiencing! And that sounds like the UMKC way! And the way you explained their courses, UMKC sounds like a great place.
If I am accepted, will I go to UMKC? Big “if”, if depends upon what happens re other programs. But one thing I really like about UMKC is that once you are in, you are in! That is you have to keep up your GPA but there are no more hoops, no other requirements to meet. I LIKE THAT! I think we do not stop and consider how important that really is. If a so called better program accepts me, but there are contingencies or requirements I must meet (even if I blindly believe that I can easily meet them) then is that really better than an offer for UMKC? I do not know, but I am starting to think not, an offer from UMKC trumps everything else because there are no further requirements.
Just some thoughts and words of thanks.
@Roentgen, a question: The liberal arts major has a 3 year foreign language requirement. I have only 2 years of Greek, so it can count only for 1 year of foreign language at UMKC. I do NOT want to have to memorize more Greek vocab and syntax while having to memorize anatomy, chem, and physics - my poor brain cannot take all of that! @Roentgen, do you know if taking any medical classes or classics classes about medicine count for all 3 years of the language requirement?
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE - I HOPE ALL WHO READ THIS GET AN ACCEPTANCE AT UMKC ON APRIL 1
@Roentgen
PS would you pick UMKC medical school again if you had several other choices, like U Kansas or U of Missouri?