@Roentgen This did answer my question! Thanks for making it very clear. I was just wondering if the total time in school is equal to that of a traditional route, which it seems almost the same as. By this I mean the amount of time in the classroom, because it seems that overall the time difference is minimal, but the actual years that it takes is shortened by two, if that makes sense. Also, I’m wondering if I didn’t go to UMKC and went the traditional route if it would be harder or the same, because of the classes dropped at UMKC. Along with that is getting into medical school hard? If I wanted to go through 8 years would it be harder than the UMKC program. Thanks.
So luckily medical school really isn’t measured in terms of actual time, from the vantage point of a student. It’s not like a stopwatch in which you have to have a certain number of hours of basic science class time, be a certain number of hours for rotations, etc. There is just certain information you have to cover, and certain type of clinical rotational experiences you have to have and be evaluated on, as well as taking and passing the required boards, etc. Overall the time difference, as you call it, is minimal, but realize you’ve also taken out certain ingredients that are usually baked into the cake, so to speak: a true undergraduate experience, certain foundational (pre-med) science courses, time to decompress and recharge during summers, etc. Certain courses are probably compressed into a lot shorter timeframe in the 6 year program than they would be at other medical schools – i.e. the Human Structure Function series and Pharmacology.
Year 1 & 2 are pretty similar in timings to college courses, usually like MWF or Tues/Thurs at a set time. Outside of your undergraduate courses you participate in Docent for several hours about twice a week. As you start getting to the medical school level taught science courses (Biochem and Human Structure Function), you meet either more hours per day and/or more frequently during the week, while still participating in Docent.
During Year 3, you’re a full-time medical student, not taking any undergraduate courses, taking basic science courses and your physical diagnosis course, as well as participating in an Internal Medicine clinic 1 half-day a week. In Year 4, your schedule is much more on a monthly schedule (outside of your required semester where you complete your undergraduate degree but are also studying for boards), where everyone is on something different, although most people will probably take Pharmacology together, and maybe certain clerkships like Family Medicine or Behavioral Science.
Year 5 and Year 6, which are equivalent to the third & fourth year of med school, I would say, are pretty similar to traditional medical schools.
So this is a complex question, but I’ll answer it, hitting on several points.
In terms of difficulty, I don’t think the undergraduate classes dropped from UMKC (General Bio, General Physics, etc.) make the UMKC BA/MD program easier to get thru per say. In some instances, it can make things a little more difficult due to a lack of a real science foundation to build on - i.e. when you take courses like Cell Biology and Genetics. If you’re coming here, because you hate Physics so much, that’s probably not a good reason to do this program, when coursework gets much harder than that. There are a lot of primary steps that are skipped in this program, in terms of difficulty, which can lead to problems for some later when you’re essentially taking medical school level Biochem and medical school level Gross Anatomy/Histology/Embryology/Physiology (Human Structure Function), as a 19 year old college sophomore.
The classes dropped are more because there just isn’t room in the schedule to really take those classes, or BA/MD students would be taking 30 hours of college credit each semester, rather than the 22-23 which is already an academic overload to begin with. Unlike previous alumni, I think @UMKCRoosMD had mentioned this, you no longer take undergraduate courses for the full 2 years like you used to be able to. During Human Structure Function, which is medical school level Anatomy/Histology/Physiology combined, you aren’t allowed to take any undergraduate credit hours.
The honest truth is if you can’t handle classes like General Biology I & II, General Physics I & II, and Organic Chemistry I & II with good study habits and skills, then medical school coursework will blow you away in terms of difficulty. This is what most medical schools want to avoid. They don’t want to risk a medical school spot on someone who might drop out (whom they can’t replace with someone else and who then has that debt to pay back with no MD degree) when they have no prior record – and high school academic record and ACT/SAT scores are not much, in terms of predictive value, in how successful you’ll be in med school. This is why most medical schools don’t do BS/MD programs, much less accelerated combined BS/MD programs, in which they don’t have certain data points before giving an acceptance.
Also, in your case, don’t take lightly the level of debt you would be accruing by doing this program. It’s easy as an 18 year old to dismiss it, but it can have real consequences in the future. That’s why I always tell people to hire a financial analyst who will do all the calcuations for you regarding the finances not just of the program, but when you enter residency, do fellowship, want to get married, have children, buy a house, etc. and see if you’re comfortable with that. Don’t just jump into this and say that your doctor salary will pay for it. Debt has real consequences and young people are putting off personal milestones longer and longer because of this debt: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/personal-finance/debt-locked-student-loans-force-millennials-delay-life-milestones-n404636.
Depending on the undergraduate school and degree major you choose, you also have the option of getting much better financial aid in terms of scholarship support, compared to UMKC, as well as the ability to do a degree that truly interests you and can also provide you an alternative path – i.e. Business, Engineering, etc. Based on what I have heard recently, the UMKC BA/MD program no longer allows students to get undergraduate degrees in Psychology, Sociology, Philosophy, Communication Studies, etc., which is a shame, but not surprising since UMKC has cut out a semester in Year 2 of taking undergrad classes. It’s either a BA in Liberal Arts, a BA in Biology, and a BA in Chemistry, and that’s it.
Whether the traditional route is harder or not, I think can vary, since there are so many factors involved – your energy level, whether after shadowing you still think going to med school is even right for you vs. another healthcare field – Dentistry, Optometry, PA, etc. In some ways I think it’s easier – not only financially (depending on university), but also in terms of getting to recharge by not having to take classes in the summer. You get to go thru the filtration process of seeing medicine how it is, not how you want it to be.
I thought this was interesting, and is a common flaw in thinking that you should avoid in deciding to do the program: http://info.umkc.edu/unews/umkc-medical-school/
That is such a gross misreading, if not a very paranoid view, of the medical school admissions process. While yes, you should maintain a high GPA, you are nowhere required to have to maintain a 4.0 GPA to get into medical school, especially now with 140 allopathic medical schools. Again, I’m not very surprised this was said as a lot of BA/MD students in the program, tend to hugely exaggerate and blow out of proportion the difficulty of applying to med school, to justify their decision to come to UMKC, but it’s not really accurate. I also thought his quote regarding the MCAT was interesting. First, you’re allowed to take the MCAT more than once to improve your score, and #2, if you think the MCAT, as a standardized exam, is so “challenging” and “stressful”, then the USMLE will be even more of those things by several orders of magnitude for you, and that exam has much higher stakes involved.
I think the BA/MD program here more provides a psychological benefit (which isn’t a good reason to come here, in my humble opinion), rather than any real, tangible benefit for students, especially when it comes to the residency match. And unlike other combined BS/MD programs, there isn’t a real off-ramp built into this program, that other BS/MD programs have, without losing time and/or money.
There are very real negatives and huge compromises you make in many areas by coming to this 6 year combined program, and I think you have to know whether you are truly ok with those compromises and negatives, and/or whether the positives truly outweigh those negatives/compromises. It’s harder to know how truly ok you are deep down, with those negatives and compromises as a 17/18 year old, with no real life experience, so I realize that doesn’t make it any easier.
How much will my bad class rank effect my chances for an interview? I thought I made up for it with my ACT, but now I’m getting a little worried
@Watang, well I was more just saying if I HAD to point out any weaknesses, and luckily you’re still in the top 10% (so I would at least try to maintain that and not get below that). I can’t remember if UMKC BA/MD asks for a mid-year transcript. I believe it doesn’t. If you’re in a high school that has recruited people into UMKC’s BA/MD program previously, since you said you go to a competitive high school – Barstow, Pembroke Hill, Rockhurst, St. Pius X, etc. it may not be an issue as the med school has assessed that school’s difficulty as being harder, putting your GPA and class rank into context. I do think your overall ACT score helps, as I don’t know how much scrutiny goes into the ACT subcomponents.
You’re also in the in-state pool of applicants, which has the lowest barrier to entry, so to speak, in terms of academic stats (GPA, class rank, and standardized test scores) vs. if you compared it with the academic stats of those in the regional pool and the out-of-state pool who get an invitation to interview. Not really surprising, as more of the ~115 total spots, go to in-state students (this is now at about 60%), so they can’t be as picky or selective in ruling people out, as they can be with the regional/out-of-state pools.
I wouldn’t stew over your high school class rank. It’s not something you can change now, and it will only impact you in a negative way psychologically. UMKC, in general, doesn’t emphasize academics as strictly, in terms of class rank and standardized test scores as much as the more competitive BS/MD programs do – Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME, Boston U, Baylor, UPitt, Penn State/Jefferson, etc.
I go to Staley High School and we have sent 3 people into the program including my brother. Our valedictorian from last year is a 1st Year now
@Watang, I really think you should be fine, esp. with your ACT score that mitigates it somewhat and puts it into context. Of course, if you have a lot of people applying for the program from your school, then it might be more of a problem when it comes to acceptances, but I think overall you should still be fine with at least getting an interview. I think having a sibling in the program will help in terms of at least getting that interview, just out of common courtesy.
I was under the impression that when you get the interview academics are thrown out of the window, and the interview is the only thing that matters for admission
@Watang, sorry I mistyped, what I meant was that if 15 people are applying to the UMKC BA/MD program from your specific in-state school, it’s very unlikely that all 15 will be accepted from 1 high school, as they want a diverse class. When I went for the program, this was certainly the case, in that for all intent and purposes, once you have received the interview you pretty much start over as the school has determined that on paper, at least, you are qualified. This may still be the case, even though they have switched the interview to an MMI (Multiple Mini Interview) format.
Here is someone from last year who asked directly about the impact of the interview: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18156928#Comment_18156928 – I don’t know if it’s MMI only or MMI + some traditional interview. Don’t know how accurate this is, so you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
Forgot to mention this, but I actually shadowed the Gold Unit docent team at the Truman Hospital. Dr. Shaffi(Gold Unit) is a family friend and is writing me a letter of recommendation, so would this also help my chances. Writing about the experience in my essay as well
@Watang, I think having an LOR from a current docent definitely would help and including it in your essay would show you really know what you’re getting into, and are fine with it, in terms of the program.
Not doing Gold Medallion won’t hurt me correct?
@watang, what is Gold Medallion?
It is the highest high school diploma someone can earn in our high school. You have to research a topic and then give an exhibition about it. I thought it was a Missouri high school thing, but I could be wrong
@Watang, according to what I Googled about it, the Gold Medallion Honors Diploma seems to be more of a North Kansas City high school thing, and only at specific NKC high schools at that. Since it’s a high school graduation diploma which is given at graduation, it can’t be listed now as an award on your application, since you would apply in the fall for the BA/MD program, and aren’t officially awarded that honor until the spring.
You can probably list yourself in the meantime as a “Gold Medallion Honors Diploma candidate” on a CV, since you’re in the running and potentially qualify (as do all students) but nothing has been awarded yet. In looking at the BA/MD application above posted by @bladerz1 of this year’s application, it doesn’t look like there is room to put it down, since there doesn’t seem to be an “Honors & Awards” section anyways.
I’m actually not doing it, so I was just wondering if it would hurt my chances at all.
@Watang, I don’t think it would affect your chances either way, especially since that specific diploma isn’t awarded to students until graduation in May, long after you’ve already gotten an answer on acceptance or not to the BA/MD program.
Ok just making sure because my brother did it and he was accepted to the program
@Watang, did he actually put it down on his application in the fall? If so, which section did he put it in, because I don’t see which category above, that it really fits well under, to be honest. Also realize that correlation isn’t necessarily causation. There are so many different working parts to the application and the interview (especially now that it’s in MMI format), that one hook alone won’t land you an acceptance or a rejection. It truly is “holistic review” at UMKC, which they explain here: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/admission-requirements-eligibility/.