Hey @zuchinicakes!! I’m really sorry things aren’t turning out as great for your daughter in the BA/MD program. What specifically does she (or classmates) dislike about the program so far? You can PM me if you’d like or you can post in the thread for the benefit of everyone and keep it broad if you need to, either one is ok. Oh, and thank you for keeping us updated as to how things are going.
@zuchinicakes, What is that she did not know before joining this program and what is new that she found out after joining. I am curious to find out because I am also an applicant.
I have quick question, I am parent of high school junior. We are moving into Missouri state from IL for High school senior. Do anyone know, when we apply to this program in Sept. 2017. Our D. would be in senior year in Missouri state. How would UMKC consider her as instate applicant or Regional.
We thought, since at the time of application, she is in Missouri state , will they consider her as instate.
Anyone was in similar situation ?
@popsys, my understanding (although quite limited since I’m not an expert on this) is that if you’re attending a Missouri high school at the time you’re a senior and you were to live in Missouri, you would qualify as an in-state applicant. You can see the official rules here from the state of Missouri: http://www.sos.mo.gov/cmsimages/adrules/csr/current/6csr/6c10-3.pdf
what is the split between instate, regional and out of state number of seats?
@popsys, you can see the percentages and numbers here: http://med.umkc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/pie_chart.png and here: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/faqs/#squelch-taas-accordion-shortcode-content-1
Thank you @Roentgen , this information is really helpful. Should I call school to get confirmed on the student instate status. If so, where should I call, medical school admission or undergraduate admission?.
So the major issues for her has been lack of support. This program is intense. They charge us a lot of money for tuition etc. They really talk a lot in the interviews as well as orientation about their support for students, etc. In reality, there is none. Zero. Students are basically left to fend for themselves. No one cares, except what money they can get from you. They act like they are so concerned. No one is. The ETC are made out to be this great contact/advisor etc for everything. They are the biggest joke ever. The ETC can’t be bothered to read and reply to emails or phone calls. I tried to talk to someone in financial dept as I had questions about the bill. They act like I’m retarded- in reality I am a physician. Everyone acts like they are too busy and can’t be bothered to answer any questions or respond to any concerns. God forbid if the student gets sick and has to miss class. They are treated like they are a criminal. No one helps with anything. The course load is inhumane. They stay up till 2.00 am studying and the pressure is intense. You can’t get a bad grade in anything- or you are basically out of options and may be looking at ‘separation’- their nice word for dropping you from the program. No they don’t try to help you or try to figure out why you may be struggling. In short- no one gives a D###m. The teachers are average - no quality to the education which we are paying a fortune for, sacrificing our retirement and savings and going into debt. I can’t imagine being an out of state student and paying double. This program is the biggest scam out there. My advise would be to apply to the regular route- 4 years undergrad and 4 years of medical school. There is zero benefit to saving 2 years. Life is short. Oh and by the way, they don’t tell you how many students drop out after the first or second year- a LOT- they hide this data from you very well. Good luck everyone- take care and hope you all succeed in fulfilling your dreams
@zuchinicakes can you give an example of what type/amount of work she would have to study for in a night? If not I understand, this is just something I am worried about as well. I am sorry that she isn’t having luck with this program and wish her the best.
I’m not sure I can give you a good idea- but she is an excellent student- as are all those in her class. She tells me she is studying all the time, and has no time to eat or sleep. Her health is worn out after just one semester- to the point where she lost weight and started getting sick frequently. She loves music, but there is no time for any kind of hobbies or extracurricular activities. They just keep addding more and more to the study load- more tests, more papers, more projects- the teachers are average. None of them tried to help. She has no time to be a normal kid. She is only 18 years old. No time to have a boyfriend, go out with your friends. Only study all the time. Yes we knew this was the case with choosing this program. But I can honestly say I never expected it would be so bad. I have not one good thing to say about this program, except that it should be shut down for the inhumane hours and stress. My advise to all of those that are obsessing over their interviews, stats, etc- go somewhere else. And good luck. You will all succeed because you are bright and motivated young people.
I agree, its a lot of work thrown at you at ones and its studying studying and studying with no guidance. Teachers are very average with no help to study. All kids who are admitted are very high scoring and committed but the quantity of work is so enormous. There is no alternate to catching up if you didnot perform well.
what are some of the ways to study HSF series? what are your options if you don’t pass HSF 1.
@popsys, tuition residency issues are handled by the main campus UMKC Office of Admissions, not thru the medical school
Thank you for giving your take, @zuchinicakes. I think the items that you mention are things that were problems/issues when I was there. I’ll give my take in terms of the issues that you brought up, that I and others have brought up in this thread that has gone on for years:
Undergraduate: Overall, I’d say the undergraduate experience of the BA/MD student is not as great as that of the typical UMKC undergraduate student, and is probably poor compared to more reputable universities (not just Ivy Leagues/private schools but including public state flagships). The university, is still, for all intents and purposes, a commuter campus so there isn’t as much of a “college town/city” feel, although there have been improvements. This is different from Mizzou, which is the state public flagship for the state. UMKC BA/MD students don’t really get to intermix with other normal undergraduates as thoroughly and as long (outside of undergrad classes), just because our schedules are so much different before we head off to Hospital Hill. If a BA/MD student is able to - it’s because a concerted effort has to be made. Now in an age of Facebook (didn’t exist when I first started, thank goodness), it can really suck when you see your friends at better universities having the time of their lives.
Course Load: Students do take an overload of total credit hours each semester. It’s almost an unsaid requirement to come in with some type of testing/transfer credit to free up your schedule but that’s only for the undergraduate non-science courses (w/the exception of the General Chemistry I and II requirement which you can potentially skip although you don’t get the science GPA buffer from it if you test out). BA/MD students have very few semesters in which to complete their undergraduate degree in and you’re not given much choice in terms of the variety of majors you are allowed to pursue within the 6 year BA/MD program framework, vs. in other Bachelor/MD programs at other places. Needless to say, I don’t believe the program (at least not anymore) allows students to have a well-rounded undergraduate course experience, vs. just checking off requirements. The “Medicine” courses in Years 1 & 2 have much more “busy work” than when I had it (even if Pass/Fail), so it’s not surprising to me that students are feeling the hours more.
Both of the above together can result in BA/MD students feeling like they are in an environment in which all they are doing is studying, even in the first 2 years, without getting to experience the other things that “regular” undergrads do in college and in life.
Tuition: Yes, the school is very expensive (even for in-state students who in theory their families have been subsidizing higher education thru taxes) because BA/MD students are charged the SOM rate even for undergraduate hours, and overall financial aid in terms of non-loan based aid for BA/MD students is pretty weak, although there are limited SOM scholarships that can defray some cost: http://med.umkc.edu/sa/finance/som_scholarships/. Not shockingly because of the price tag, the BA/MD class at UMKC, especially now w/the regional category, does tend to tilt towards those who come from more affluent backgrounds and thus can afford it.
Support: They do have some new things there (Office of Student Research, Career Advising office, Wellness Program - which I recommend for all students to not be embarrassed and take full advantage of) as well as things they’ve tried to build up which were there previously when I was there (Supplemental Instruction, more med school student organizations when I was there: http://med.umkc.edu/sa/student-organizations/, ). Of course just the presence of those things doesn’t necessarily mean that students find them to be a helpful resource. That is something that applicants needed to be asking current students in Years 1-6, with respect to how good certain services are.
ETCs: I can’t remark about the current ETCs as I had different ones. A lot of the ETCs who have been there for a long time have left or have finally retired. It sucks because they often knew a lot of things just from having worked at the med school for a long time that aren’t in the student handbooks and can be life savers. When I was there, at least at the Year 1-2 level, the ETCs were very nice and their doors were open to us anytime, if they didn’t have a meeting.
Teaching: I think this can be very hit or miss for UMKC professors teaching our School of Medicine required courses both at the undergraduate and med school level, and I think it is very course specific. Overall, probably nothing to rave about in terms of great teaching quality, but the ones that are really good usually stand out, and students figure this out ahead of time pretty quickly. This is all assuming of course that a student does the things they’re supposed to — going to class, taking notes, going to SI if needed, asking questions (in class or email), etc.
Science GPA: the Science GPA requirement (IMHO) does cause undue stress to students, not necessarily because of the requirement itself, but because BA/MD students take so few undergraduate science courses in total before moving on to harder medical school level basic science courses. I’m not at all surprised by the stress it can create since students feel they can’t really “mess up”, kind of defeating the purpose of a combined program like this. Back when I was there, in Years 1-2, they used to bring up extending (A LOT), even on one bad test day, which used to annoy us to no end.
Attrition/Extension: We do have figures on the attrition aspect – 21% but that’s an average: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19494705/#Comment_19494705. We don’t have publicly released numbers on the extension aspect (the percentage who extend in the program)
Saving 2 years: Going thru this program is not worth it for the sole benefit of saving 2 years. Students compromise and give up a lot by doing this program, even if they may not realize what those things are before entering. As I have mentioned on the thread myself, if I could reverse time and make the decision again, I would not do the BA/MD program.
Here is my advice:
Make a clean break at the end of the spring semester of Year 1 after completion of finals. Assuming that this is indeed an issue of the structure of the program, and not something else that is more temporary or fixable, your child will be in no way “trapped” by leaving at the end of the second semester in the program, and can easily go the traditional route, esp. since your child is still doing very well academically and all our undergraduate courses transfer to other colleges/universities. It’s different when finishing 2 years (or greater) in the program and then leaving and having to make up for lost time.
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@btypic, there are many different ways to study for HSF, but there do tend to be Supplemental Instruction (SI) sessions led by students who’ve done well in the course to help. How helpful they are tend to be dependent on the older student in charge of leading it. HSF tends to be harder because it’s very easy to get behind, since exams are scheduled every 2 weeks (unlike classes previously where it’s once a month).
If you don’t pass HSF I, you extend 1 year in the program, since in order to move on to HSF II and HSF III, you have to have passed the segment before it. You still continue in HSF II and III, but it’s more on an auditing basis, where you go to class, but you don’t get a grade for it officially. This is because most undergraduate classes are already several weeks in, with few exceptions, so you can’t enroll in them to finish off your undergrad degree, so many weeks into the semester.
As a current Year 2 student plowing through HSF II at the moment, I have to agree with almost everything @Roentgen and @zuchinicakes have said thus far. It is quite the stressful program to go through.
I was looking at the 2008 application and I noticed it asked about living in Johnson county in kansas, among others. If i live in one of these counties, would I be considered instate?
@laltahhan, I believe that is no longer the case. That was when there were only 2 categories: in-state and out-of-state categories. Back then there were people who lived in Kansas, but whose parents worked in Missouri so I think they could claim Missouri income tax liability and thus pay in-state tuition. Now UMKC Med has a regional category, so if you live in Kansas (regardless of whether your parents work in Missouri or not), I believe you pay regional tuition, which is halfway between in-state tuition and out-of-state tuition.
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What are the options if they fail HSF 1, 2 …or any to go back to traditional route? Any suggestions how to study for the HSF series?
Hey @btypic, you can see the curriculum policy here for HSF, since it’s a series: http://med.umkc.edu/curriculum/info/#ba-mdstudents. Essentially, in order to promote to Year 3 of the program (each new year starts at the summer), you had to have completed HSF I, II, and III. If you fail or withdraw out anywhere in the HSF I/HSF II/HSF III part in that spring semester, you have to redo the entire series again next year, although they will have you continue auditing (not for a grade but you have to attend) the remaining parts of HSF II and III currently. Needless to say, HSF was probably part of the curriculum which I hated the most (which is saying a lot), based on how it is badly structured in the program (my opinion). Check your private message.