For sure Roentgen- thanks very much
Hello. You stated earlier that if you were given the option you would take the traditional route. Why Is that?
So I think this a starting list:
– the 6 year BA/MD program runs year around (Fall, Spring, Summer) with no sustained break (in terms of time off) in the curriculum for all 6 years, thus resulting in a higher burnout rate of students. Keep in mind these are smart, proactive students, but I think w/just the way the BA/MD curriculum is structured it can be quite exhausting which takes its toll after a while.
– you don’t get the normal undergraduate experience that most other undergrads get (UMKC still is very much a commuter campus in comparison to large public state flagship undergraduate campuses, although it has improved in the last 10 years), which in itself is supposed to be a period of growth intellectually and socially from age 18 to 22. Undergrad isn’t supposed to be just a “means to an end” to get to med school. I think very high achieving AP/IB high school students in the program tend to dismiss that aspect of an undergraduate education just bc they’re so antsy to jump into med school & don’t realize it until it’s too late.The undergraduate part of the program is very much an afterthought in this program, so often it can feel like just checking off boxes on a list.
– you don’t get to choose any undergraduate major, as you’re effectively limited to 3 B.A. (not even B.S.) degrees - Biology, Chemistry, Liberal Arts, because of the very few semesters that you have in the curriculum to complete an undergraduate degree.
– you take very few foundational undergraduate science courses before directly hopping into medical school level basic science coursework starting in Year 2.
– You pay School of Medicine tuition rates even starting in Year 1 where most of your credit hours are undergraduate coursework.
– UMKC is an unranked medical school and either doesn’t have the resources or doesn’t have the level of resources that better funded public med schools or prestigious medical schools have, esp. in areas of research (mind you this has improved immensely, but still not at the level of peer institutions like Mizzou or KUMed) along with the absence of certain residency program specialties in-house. This can initially feel very limiting in terms of experience, which because of how the student body has changed in terms of specialty selection, more students are taking a year off to do research somewhere else that does offer it.
who was the coach she used?
@Rainiertx Who did you use as a coach for interviews?
@Roentgen I have been reading through your previous posts about UMKC 6 year med and its pros and cons. I was accepted to UMKC’s 6 year program, but I was also accepted to the University of Illinois at Chicago’s (UIC) 7-8 year BSMD program. UIC’s Medical school students seem to match into better residency programs than UMKC’s students, but I don’t know if that is a significant fact to consider when deciding between these two programs.
I am still conflicted on which school/program to attend, and I would appreciate any advice you have. Thank you
I think it is very much a significant fact to consider. You can see UIC’s match lists here, which they’re nice enough to have tracked all the way back to 2001: https://chicago.medicine.uic.edu/education/md-student-services-and-support/academic-and-career-advising-and-support/match-preparation-past-results/com-chicago-match-results/.
UIC also has certain clinical departments/residency home programs that UMKC does not have on site as well: https://chicago.medicine.uic.edu/departments/academic-departments/ (e.g. Neurosurgery, Otolaryngology, Dermatology, etc.). That can help as you’re ruling in & out specialties, as you progress through medical school. You also have several other medical school institutions very close by: Northwestern Feinberg, UChicago Pritzker, Rush, etc. in the Chicago area, if there was something not offered at UIC that you may want to get more exposure to (e.g. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation) like shadowing or doing research in that specialty.
My guess is this is the UIC GPPA program for in-staters, so it’s also nice to have parents close by (close enough, but also far enough) or at least within good driving distance, although I know people who had no problem driving from KC to Illinois. I also think you have the chance of having a more “normal” undergraduate experience w/in the 7-8 year UIC GPPA program.
So based on the comparison between UIC’s GPPA program (7-8 year program) vs. UMKC’s BA/MD program (6 year program), I would go with UIC. I wouldn’t even let the time factor enter this equation.
@Discover8 I know quite a few very talented and smart students who chose GPPA and dropped out as either they are not challenged especially UIC is a grade C school in their first 3 years as one is not challenged. I know this year alone 5 got in (2 did interview at UMKC but denied and 1 didn’t get even interview at UMKC - BTW - one who had interview had perfect ACT and perfect A student with lot of AP courses and the other who didn’t get even get interview had ACT - 35 and 14 AP classes and Perfect A as well. Not to mention all these students had enormous extra curricular with Medical background. All of them are of Indian Origin! One who had perfect ACT wanted only UMKC desperately but since she was not selected and she is so dejected now she is thinking of going to Urbana CS vs GPPA (BTW Urbana CS some of the top students starting salary is $100K plus) and 4 of them have no other direct BA/MD program choice so they are choosing GPPA.
Only with respect to financial aspect GPPA will be about $130K cheaper compared to UMKC’s tuition without any merit awards. This is considering one completes their undergrad in 3 years which most do. I did meet a student last year who completed BS in 2 years. That’s one thing about GPPA that they don’t force you to stay in the BS program for 4 years. Another thing is you have to take MCAT though the requirement is not high but still one has to prepare well and spend time on it. I know a student who did very well in MCAT now doing his MD at Stanford! So, some of them leave the program if they achieve high MCAT to elsewhere.
My suggestion is to choose UMKC. Yes, you will pay $130K more in tuition with out counting any merit awards. But most do get $5k to $8k/year merit awards at UIC for their BS and I know my friend’s son got $100k in merit award for MD as well who is in the 3rd year MD program at UIC GPPA.
With respect to UMKC not being ranked, I was told that UMKC chose not to be ranked! But if you look at the Match list for this year as well as last year, you will see quite a few in top Hospitals (Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins, etc.)
Please note that choosing UMKC that one has to be absolutely sure that they only want to pursue MD, if they remotely have other ideas, then I would not suggest UMKC!
Good Luck. Again all these are all my personal opinion based on factual data that I have come across. Not to put down intentionally or unintentionally about any program remotely in a negative way!
Just to add to what @WGSK88 said regarding the U.S. World News Report rankings for medical schools, yes, it is very true that UMKC chooses NOT to be ranked, but then the next obvious question from applicants/parents is why not? Why purposefully choose not to be compared to other med schools? Keep in mind that there is both a Research ranking list and a Primary Care ranking list.
Should USWNR ranking be a determinative/sole factor? Of course not, but it’s one data point w/methodology to compare medical schools on several metrics. Mizzou, SLU, KU Med all participate.
UMKC: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-missouri-kansas-city-04058
Mizzou: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-missouri-04059
SLU: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/saint-louis-university-04057
KU: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-kansas-medical-center-04037
And, a $130K difference in tuition is actually pretty huge. It’s almost another 4 year medical school tuition in and of itself: https://members.aamc.org/iweb/upload/2017%20Debt%20Fact%20Card.pdf. Now, if your family is very affluent to where money is no object, then it’s not an issue, but if you’re taking loans, that extra 130K will definitely be felt.
@Discover8 @Roentgen Sorry, I miscalculated the In-state tuition for UIC GPPA - Tuition only for UG - Most finish in 3 years - in-state - $14K * 3 years = $42K + M1 to M4 - Tuition & Fees only - $190K (any of the 3 campuses) = $232K (for 7 years) or $246K for 8 years. Again Tuition & Fees only.
UMKC for Regional Rate Tuition & Fees only for IL residents is $260K for 6 years of BA/MD
You are only paying $28K more at UMKC. Sorry, I was way off in my calculation. Considering you are not in-state for UMKC you are still paying only $28K more. Yes, UIC Chicago gives about $3K/year and up to $7K/1st year only (here also I made a mistake). But apparently only few gets these merit awards. So about $14K in aid. Even if you add this it’s about $42K extra (including any merit awards you get at UIC Chicago) but one extra year of studies. So, you will be a Resident already during the 7th year if you chose UMKC and typically you get paid $70K or so as a resident so this evens out and you are done 1 year early as well at UMKC.
Don’t forget at UMKC you are a Med student from day 1 where as at UIC Chicago you can’t enter the Med School until you finish all your requirements including MCAT (3 years for most people or 4 years for some).
Also, as I stated in my previous posting docent experience starts in the 1st year No program that I am aware does the clinical exposure that early as part of the program itself.
@bsmddad72 please message me as I don’t feel comfortable posting their information in the main thread.
FYI for everyone. We are turning down our UMKC offer and are out of state so there should be one more spot available. Good luck!
@Rainiertx I cannot message you. Can you message me?
@WGSK88 Thank you for all your information. What do you mean when you say UIC is a Grade C school? I am Indian as well, and I know that I really do want to be a doctor. If you don’t mind me asking, what was the reason for that one girl who got into GPPA to go to UIUC for CS instead? And you made it seem like the other 4 individuals you knew where going to UIC only because they did not get into any other programs, what makes them hesitant to go to UIC? I am only asking because I do genuinely like both schools, but I am worried that I may have missed something in my research.
@Roentgen and @WGSK88 - UMKC med school is up for accreditation this year- is any issue expected on that front? Have you heard anything …?
@naive101, at least for LCME re-accreditation, it shouldn’t be a problem for UMKC. It’s done every few years, I forget the interval. LCME accreditation is the minimum level of standards a U.S. allopathic medical school has to fulfill.
@Discover8 When I stated UIC is a grade C school, that’s how it’s perceived by many and many of the people I talked to last year were stating the same as well. Sorry for giving a vague reply here.
Yes, those 4 people doesn’t have any other direct program option, so they all are choosing GPPA (This includes the girl who was initially thinking about Urbana CS as well). The other (5th) person has SLU Med-Scholar offer as well (with 50% tuition merit award for the BS portion.) I advised against SLU Medicine (Not because they are in probation by LCME which they mostly likely will come out but only 38% of the SLU Med Scholars will get into the MD portion and the rest won’t). But this girl doesn’t like UIC GPPA for not being a great UG school and she would rather take up either SLU Med Scholar or Wash U pre-med. So, I am not sure what her final decision would be? But for her, I advised her Dad to choose UIC GPPA. This girl didn’t apply to UMKC.
In your case, based on my daughter’s experience so far you will be definitely better off at UMKC especially you are stating you are sure about being Dr. as you saw my comparison of tuition it’s not that huge of difference and if you do well without extending at UMKC you will be done in 6 years.
Another example similar to your situation who had both UMKC and GPPA offer in 2011 (one of our friend’s daughter) but she chose GPPA and only to be dropped out in the 3rd year. We don’t know the actual reason but I know she was one of the top students with lot of achievements and currently she is doing research at NYC Mount sinai hospital.
Good luck and you can privately message me if you want to talk to me over the phone!
@naive101 UMKC will be fine with LCME accrediatation. In fact LCME was visiting UMKC all of last week. Final decision will be out on Aug 1. It’s every 8 years and it’s a year long process. In fact they started the process last year at UMKC!
@WGSK88 Thank you for your information! At this time I do not have more questions, but I will definitely reach out if I have more concerns.