@klong12303 did you take any Spanish courses during college? If so, what courses were you able to get into?
@Roentgen @WGSK88 - My child decided to finally attend UMKC , giving up the ivies etc. Hope things work out for them here! Thank you both for your inputs along the way.
Another question @Roentgen , @WGSK88 and others- is it better to do Biology track or Liberal arts track for the undergrad part at UMKC? It seems these tracks are largely same. Any advice on course sequence/ choice/ scheduling?
@naive101 - Congrats! About 97% of the students choose Liberal arts as major since you take enough biological science courses as part of your medical curriculum. That said my daughter is taking bio as her major! It’s a matter of choice and preference of your daughter. They also have honors program which your daughter can opt in which they will provide enough guidance during the first few weeks of school start in August. Good luck.
2018 Match List analysis - Part 1 of 2
Class of 2018 Match List
Internal Medicine - 28
Pediatrics - 9
Medicine-Pediatrics (combined residency) - 2
Psychiatry - 9
Obstetrics & Gynecology - 3
Family Medicine - 8
General Surgery - 9
Orthopedic Surgery - 4
Orthopedic Surgery Research Fellowship - 1
ENT - 1
Plastics - 1
Emergency Medicine - 7
Diagnostic Radiology - 7
Interventional Rads - 1
Diagnostic Radiology + Nuclear Medicine - 1
Ophthalmology - 4
Anesthesiology - 6
Dermatology - 3
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - 3
Pathology - 2
Child Neurology - 1
Radiation Oncology - 1
Oral Surgery - 2
Transitional Medicine - 1
I’ll try to follow the same format as last year in 2017, with some repeats in terms of advice and analysis.
As students are comparing medical schools at different BS/MD programs (if you’re lucky enough to be in the position of having several Bachelor/MD acceptances in the first place, and it’s perfectly fine if you don’t), residency match lists will be one factor that you will look at. If you’re someone who has not gone thru medical school and does not know any physicians or those who are currently in medicine, it can be very difficult as a layman to properly interpret and reach proper conclusions from match lists for a particular school when making medical school matriculation decisions.
Part of interpretation of a school’s match list involves:
a) knowing which are the good residency training programs in each individual specialty, with the top-tier programs in each specialty (regardless of institution) being the most competitive
b) seeing geographically where most students/graduates from that school end up matching esp. in competitive areas (i.e. California) and in which specialties in those areas
c) looking at several years’ worth of match lists to see their past “track record” in being able to sending graduates to specific specialties/regions/program institutions
Top-tier doesn’t necessarily automatically mean Ivy League name prestige, although it can sometimes be true. Particular residency programs can also be more competitive for other reasons: easier residency lifestyle, geography (i.e. being located in sunny California or in New York City), etc.
It’s more helpful to notice match trends overall rather than to hyperfocus on any one particular person’s match or only on any one particular year in evaluating a school. For example, noticing 1 hard-hitting stellar match and then extrapolating it to the entire student body/the medical school/yourself is probably not a wise idea, as you don’t know the entire story behind it (unless you ask/email the person), i.e. did research at the NIH, did an audition elective rotation, have a personal/internal connnection, etc.
Context is always helpful in terms of evaluating any particular person’s residency match.
For example:
Did that person have to take a year off from the BA/MD program to get some research publications under his/her belt in order to come back and hopefully match into a specific specialty?
[ul]
[]Is that person part of the military match?
[]Did that person couples match with someone else in the same class?
[]Did that person want to follow a spouse from a previous class and thus do residency in the same area?
[]Was that person geographically restricted in some way (i.e. wanting to be closer to family; having a significant other not in medicine, who has to find a job in the area where the person matches)?
[]Did that person do an audition rotation at the place where they matched and knocked their socks off?
[]Were they an MD-only student, who may have done quite a bit of research or had ancillary degrees?
[li]Was that person unable to match from the previous match cycle year and had to apply again?[/li][/ul]
All these factors can play into a med student’s match which is the result of a computer algorithm that incorporates an applicant’s rank order list, a residency training program’s rank order list of applicants, and the computer spits out the best possible outcome taking into account both lists. Keep in mind if someone currently in the class applied but didn’t match into any training position even for the the first year of internship, you will not see their name on this list.
Things you won’t be automatically able to see in a medical school’s match list for a particular year:
-
Whether the specialty the person ended up matching into was that person’s #1 preferred specialty or whether they ended up matching into a backup residency specialty, whether that’s simultaneously applying for 2 specialties, not applying at all for their #1 preferred specialty and instead applying for their #2 preferred specialty that they’d like or at least be ok with and are more competitive for, or going thru the SOAP process (formerly called “The Scramble” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Resident_Matching_Program#Failure_to_match).
-
Where that residency program was ranked on the applicant’s rank list (whether it’s their first choice or last choice).
Different BA/MD classes have different personalities. For example, one year a lot of people may want to go for more primary care oriented type specialties or one year may have a lot more people going for surgical specialties, which may not be the case in other years.
Med students also take other things into account, besides just the residency training program itself, when it comes to coming up with a rank list and matching with programs: geographical considerations, wanting to live closer to family, spousal considerations, the standard of living of the city - since you’ll be making a relatively low resident’s salary, during residency training. There are also rankings of residency hospitals/programs which you can see from USWNR: http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals and Doximity: https://residency.doximity.com/, which varies by specialty.
One thing I wanted to make clear as I did last year, is that my analysis of this year’s match list is not meant to be a personal judgment of the students themselves. It’s not meant as a personal attack or criticism. My goal is to try to point out trends compared with the school’s prior Match lists and compared to other medical schools. It is also helpful to those who may be considering a particular specialty and need to see a school’s prior track record in getting students into that specialty or in particular geographic areas, which will be relevant in their decision making. If you’re someone who is not at all sure what specialty you want and thus don’t want to feel restricted in any way (and you don’t have to know at this point at all by any means), looking at match lists to see the distribution of matches a particular school is able to get, in terms of specialties and programs, is important. That being said, I kind of think of the match lists as sort of turning on the tv about a minute before the end credits come on, and trying to figure out the plot from the tv show that happened 29 minutes before. You guys are seeing the final product, but you don’t see the years before that went into initially creating that product – studying for basic science courses, taking Step 1, clerkship performance, audition rotations, taking Step 2 CK, research and any publications that came from it, how the person decided which specialty to shoot for and when they decided, how much geography came into play, whether people couples matched, what backups were seriously considered, etc. which also has an effect on the end match, although you can still note common trends from year to year.
2018 Match List analysis - Part 2 of 2
So in our strongest specialty at UMKC (in terms of higher level of exposure to IM, esp. at the Years 3-6 level), which is Internal Medicine, ON AVERAGE our students this year matched into mainly middle-tier (some strong middle-tier) and lower-tier institutions. In the past, as was this year, we have had 1-2 students (usually the top students academically but not always) in a particular year match into top-tier places like Mayo and Wash U for IM who know the performance of our graduates well in their residency – notice that both are in the Midwest. If we do get an IM match into a top program in the East Coast it tends to be Beth Israel Deaconess (vs. Mass General and Brigham & Womens). Keep in mind, in comparison to traditional graduates, we do 4 more months of inpatient Internal Medicine than everyone else, not including our weekly half-day ambulatory IM clinics for 4 years, at which other schools, at most, do one month of ambulatory clinic. I think this confuses people, since the amount of Internal Medicine education we get at UMKC is much more when compared to other medical schools, so you’d think that we’d be matching more people into top-tier IM institutions easily in this field, since we get the added exposure and maybe greater confidence that students at other schools don’t get heading into IM. Of course, it’s much more complicated than this, which I won’t go into here, but clearly just having more student curricular exposure is not the only factor in selection for the top-tier IM residency programs, or it’s not enough on its own to justify taking someone, as that’s what residency training is for, in which the learning curve is very steep and thus people catch up quickly. Most people going for IM tend to go with the intention of becoming subspecialists thru fellowship - Cardiology, GI, Heme/Onc, Allergy, etc. although people also can become hospitalists as well.
For Pediatrics, most students matched into middle-tier and quite a few lower-tier Pediatrics residency programs, with one top-tier program match (that person being a top student academically). In Peds, the rate of subspecializing after residency is different, as the income factor discrepancy isn’t as pronounced in the Peds world from generalist to specialist, as it can sometimes be in the IM world.
We had a lot more people match into Psychiatry than in previous past match lists, but that’s probably more indicative of this particular class. Quite a few decided to stay at UMKC’s Psychiatry program. Most matched programs are low-middle/low tier programs w/the exception of one Beth Israel Deaconness match by an academically top student.
Only 3 people matched into OB-Gyn this year, probably more indicative of this particular class, 1 match at UMKC, the others at lower tier programs. Our OB-Gyn home residency program doesn’t have too many home subspecialty fellowships, compared to other places, similar to our General Surgery program.
As is pretty typical for our student match lists, very few in total of our students go for surgery, whether that’s general surgery or the surgical subspecialties, for a total of 15 this year, as our school’s overall emphasis is much more on Internal Medicine (thru the Docent system) and primary care specialties (Family Medicine and Pediatrics). Our only surgical residencies we have at UMKC are General Surgery and Orthopedic Surgery. All others Urology, ENT, Plastics, Neurosurgery, you will be dependent on outside institutions for matching into that field. In General Surgery, most of our matches were in lower-tier gen surgery programs w/1 military match. Orthopedic Surgery - 4 matches, all middle tier/lower tier programs. For ENT, that student specifically took a year off for research, & matched at the closest ENT program at KU.
In terms of the more ancillary specialties: Radiology, Radiation Oncology, Ophtho, Anesthesiology, Derm, PM&R, etc., some of the matches that were in the more competitive specialties in that list were those who voluntarily took time off from medical school to do research in that specialty in order to increase their chances of matching (although it’s not a guarantee) or were top students academically to even be in the running. This is much different in non-low tier schools where it’s not necessary to be the top student academically to still have a shot.
Ophtho – 4 matches all in lower-tier Ophtho programs
Derm — 3 matches, all AOA, one non-BA/MD student who took 2 years off for research
Rad Onc — 1 match, Junior AOA
We do not have home residency programs in Radiation Oncology, Derm, and PM&R. Radiology, has gotten much less competitive over the years in terms of matching (it used to be almost on par with Derm in terms of competiveness about 10 years ago), so accordingly, our match lists have opened up to more people being able to match into Rads coming from UMKC. Interventional Radiology is a relatively new residency in the match (it used to be a fellowship after Diagnostic Radiology) and is much different in competitiveness than Diagnostic Radiology (it’s more competitive for now), so not surprisingly, the match was by an academically top student at a top tier place. We do have a Radiology department at UMKC.
There was only 1 who matched only into the first year of internship (preliminary year or transitional year), to where often they are given military orders to only match into internship, at least initially. They tend to go thru the Military Match or re-enter the NRMP match later for their actual residency.
I would say overall for this year’s match list, taking into account the overall breadth & variety of specialties matched into (including specific individual matches from those in the prior year’s class who took a year off for research), residency program institutional caliber even for the non-competitive specialties, geographical distribution, I would say this year’s match list overall is a little below average compared to previous years’ match lists for UMKC. Keep in mind that UMKC Med has always been a smaller, lower-tier medical school so the spectrum of specialties/programs that a student is able to match into coming from here (even with taking a year off for research) will be different than medical schools that are middle-tier/solid middle-tier and in the top-tier.
@naive101, in terms of majors, choose the one you want. The question gets asked whether it has any influence in terms of residency later, and no, it does not. It’s kind of pointless to do the Biology BA degree when any extra science courses don’t even count towards your required Science GPA requirement anyways.
Has anyone gotten off the waitlist?
@medicalnerd00,
this is how “getting off the waitlist” process has worked in past application cycles:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19656464#Comment_19656464
Hi
My details from when I applied:
Regional Applicant
ACT: 27
GPA: 3.5/4
12 AP Courses
Extracurriculars:
Swim Team Captain
Martial Arts Black Belt (3rd degree) - done it for 13 yrs. Numerous Martial Arts Trophies.
2nd place Regionals (Fencing)
Debate team. Took 3rd place at State.
Lacrosse Team
Professional Experience:
2500+ Hours of shadowing in a variety of specialties (Cardiology, Radiology, Psychiatry, Nephrology, Family Practice, GI, Oncology). As you may be able to tell, my family is heavily involved in the medical field.
Deeply involved with one of the major medical organizations. I had conducted research with them and have my name on multiple papers. I was also involved with organizing their annual conference.
I’ve deliberately been vague because a substantial number of the people involved with the UMKC med school/program have known me since I was a baby. I don’t want my classmates to identify me and accuse me of receiving special treatment.
I posted this to show that even with mediocre scores, one can still get in as long as you can compensate with the other components of your application. A good number of my close relatives and family friends have done the 6 year program at UMKC and I was quite certain that I would be the black sheep who would end up going to the Caribbean for med school. If I can get in, you can as well.
Good Luck!
Hey, thanks for your contribution for future applicants.
“I was quite certain that I would be the black sheep who would end up going to the Caribbean for med school.”
I’m sorry, I just laugh at College Confidential sometimes when it comes to the perception of traditional medical school admissions (based on anecdotes) on this message board from students. I guess it’s easier to see in hindsight, but oftentimes students on this board HIGHLY overestimate the process as this near insurmountable process meant only for superhumans. lolz.
@GoRoyals12345 “my name on multiple papers”
This is very impressive! Congratulations!
Thanks. That’s very nice of you to say that but I really don’t feel like Im truly deserving of any of the accolades. I’m really not that great of a student. My mother is the one who should get all the credit. She’s the one who would take us to her clinic on days when we didn’t have school (starting in late elementary school) and assiduously keep track of our hours. She’s also the one who activated my parents’ and grandparents’ contacts to ensure a well rounded shadowing experience. Even the research papers were thanks to her - it was her connections, her board memberships and leadership positions that enabled me to work on the papers. She was the one who introduced me to the PIs and would even be my ride there and back. I played very minor roles in the papers (just a high school student) but got my name on them nonetheless. I guess I also ought to show some gratitude to dad. He’s the one who’s been paying for everything, although I don’t think the tuition really made a dent in his finances. It was fun when I’d get to shadow in his clinic because I’d just hang out in his office and play video games and mom would be none the wiser. My parents are the ones who truly deserve all the credit - I would just show up.
@GoRoyals12345 I see that you are very honest, open and innocent but let me tell you this is a cut throat world. From now on, take charge and work very hard, to be successfull in the med school. As you might have already known, this is a stressfull program.
@midwestFem, I 100% agree with your post. Regardless of how one was able to make it into the program, the point is that person has made it. We all do our best to apply with the resources we have available & it doesn’t make that accomplishment any less or any more important or the person any more/less worthy or deserving. Some have more resources than others & some have less, but that’s life (in case, any of you haven’t figured out by now, life isn’t always fair, you can only work on things under your control).
I do agree, that from here on out, @GoRoyals12345, it will take hard work, determination, inner drive as well as being able to rest and relax when necessary, in a program like the 6 year BA/MD program that runs year round.
Out of State Applicant
ACT: 32
GPA: 4.0/4.0, 4.6 weighted
Class Rank: 1/604
AP/Dual Enrollment: Entire course load for last 2.5 years, earning 78 college credits (4.0 GPA) per UMKC standards, received college honors program A.S. before diploma
Caucasian/Native American & Female
Extracurriculars:
Captain of 2 varsity sports, state qualifier and many awards
Regional/district qualifier of 3rd varsity sport
8 School Clubs/Honor Societies, officer of 3 and state rep
Research: significant, multiple awards
Publications: 3
National Scholarships/awards: 5
Community Service: 1200+ hours in high school, lifetime servant
Professional Experience:
Over 2.5 years of actual paid medical experience
Summer full-time medical/research competitive program at a state medical school
Summer NSF STEM internship
Many other shadow/medical experiences
References: Very good, they all voluntarily shared
Interview: Seemed very good, but one went to the restroom and didn’t interview at all
Initially wait-listed, just notified not accepted
Advice for other out of state applicants: unless you have connections like @GoRoyals12345, don’t waste your time and money applying to this program.
@Roentgen - these do seem like insurmountable odds for a regular human that just worked extremely hard on their own and yes, life isn’t fair!
Congrats and best of luck to those that made the cut!
Hey @KnowledgePursuit, thank you so much for taking the time to contribute to the thread with your CV from applications this year, esp. for out-of-state applicants looking at the program. The out-of-state pool for UMKC is so competitive in terms of the high caliber of applicants (even more than in-state and regional), which you clearly are, that often it’s a crapshoot (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crapshoot) as to who gets in and who doesn’t, esp. since there are so few spots allocated to out-of-state. That’s really unusual what happened on your MMI if one station didn’t even interview you. I will say, it’s a blessing in disguise, because the amount of tuition you’d be paying as an out-of-state student in this program is totally not worth it, IMHO.
My “insurmountable” comment in my post way above was with regards to the traditional medical school admissions process during college. My point was that students and parents on CC tend to HIGHLY overestimate that process as to how hard it is & make it seem insurmountable. I’m not saying it’s not hard at all, just that people’s vantage point on this website tends to be very tilted. I wouldn’t compare the Bachelor/MD app process to the traditional app process at all, as while there are some similarities there are also really important differences that tends to make the process much different overall. The Bachelor/MD app is of the mindset that it’s an alternative pathway and not THE pathway of getting into med school, so a lot of things are luck of the draw.
@knowledgepursuit UMKC don’t deserve you! Hope you have applied and got some other BS/MD program. Congrats to what you have accomplished. You are an all rounder and have the desire, determination, drive to accomplish all these during HS. Even if you are going in the traditional route, you will succeed. Take it as a blessing in disguise. GL.
Dear @knowledgepursuit : sorry to hear this, you must be disappointed! As @Roentgen noted, the OOS pool is stellar. And there is real strong preference for in state students in these programs. Moreover, applicants have very different endowments about which they can do simply nothing. For instance, @GoRoyals12345 had unique connections which in my mind offered him/ her a very unfair advantage about which they can wax eloquent now, but which several others like you did not. But such is life. The so-called subjective elements (interviews, shadowing, volunteering etc), while they might be necessary, also IMHO make the process unfair and open to influence, esp. when the competition is intense and seats limited. But as you know, you don’t necessarily need to be a medical doctor to be either well to do financially or be satisfied with life. Engineering, business, research…there are so many things to pursue with passion.