(Un)Balanced?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>This isn't a chance thread--I think I've lurked enough on CC to self-judge objectively--so I'm not going to go into my entire resume. However, a little background is useful. I'm very humanities-oriented and will graduate with four years of French, including AP (despite being forced to take 5 years of science); prospective majors currently are English and Computer Science, in that order. My passion is creative writing (don't plan to major but will definitely take classes); my personality is intellectual, artsy, and quiet but also argumentative when roused. </p>

<p>I'd prefer a small LAC but am willing to make exceptions. No Deep South and no religious affliation (I am an -outspoken- atheist and I'd really prefer not to spend every other day in a theology debate). My parents, being Asian, want me to stay coed because they're expecting me to date in college, and frankly, in a women's college I'd never make the effort to meet guys. I don't care about prestige and I've almost broken my parents of that tendency, just by insisting on LACs. Financial aid is an important consideration, although thankfully we can/are willing to pay the EFC (both FAFSA and at least Amherst's IM). Also, I don't party, don't plan on drinking, will only do real relationships versus random hookups, and dislike sports (both playing and as a spectator).</p>

<p>I'm a rising junior at a competitive public magnet that doesn't rank. Williams recently paid for our dedicated college counselor to visit them, in hopes that she'd recommend it. I don't know how many go to Ivies each year, but a good amount. [If you know what school I'm talking about, please refrain from informing the entire CC-Internet. Thanks.]</p>

<p>Ethnicity/Gender: Asian female (Chinese)
GPA: 4.0/4.28 (theoretical max. 4.3; I don't know how to convert to the 5-point scale)
SAT (taken in eighth grade): 2170 (M 650, CR 760, W 760 w/ 11 on essay)
PSAT: 219 (M 67, CR 79, W 73)
Courses: All honors, taking 2 APs (Calc AB and English Lang) next year and 3-5 senior year. (This is NOT my school's heaviest load, and I still need to figure things out--including scheduling--with the counselor.)</p>

<p>This is my current college list, to be narrowed down further after visits this summer and some pondering. I got sucked into college research in the middle of sophomore year and find it strangely addicting--a perfect form of "productive" procrastination. I actually enjoy it, which has earned me some weird looks.</p>

<p>Yale (will probably apply EA; I was skeptical of the Ivies but fell in love on my visit)
Pomona (can't visit unless accepted, but it sounds perfect)
Amherst (I'm attracted to the open curriculum)
Brown (open curriculum, but the campus is merely nice)
Williams (upcoming visit)
Swarthmore (close, but too intense?)
Cornell (upcoming visit; may be too big for me)
-----I will eventually cut 2-3 schools from the above.
Oberlin (can't visit, but sounds good)
Grinnell (same)
Haverford (meh on the Honor Code, but generous FA and close to home)
Vassar (upcoming visit; maybe too weird-artsy and bad gender ratio)
Wesleyan (did not particularly impress me on visit, and I dislike the core curriculum)
-----I will eventually cut 1-2 schools from the above.
U of Rochester (good except for location and size; upcoming visit and interview)
Skidmore (stingy FA, undiverse re: class/race; upcoming visit)
U of Delaware (state flagship, essentially guaranteed w/ merit)
-----I may cut one safety from here, because Skidmore has terrible FA. I'd really love to find a good LAC safety, though.</p>

<p>Now for my actual question and reason for this thread: as you can see, my reaches/matches/safeties grow progressively skimpier. I'd like to find another match in case I don't like Vassar, and definitely another LAC safety. Does CC have any collective wisdom to offer?</p>

<p>Thank you in advance, everyone! And a final note: I am a lit geek. Please attempt proper capitalization, punctuation, and grammar; I'm sure I won't be the only one with appreciative eyes.</p>

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<p>Reed can be a bit more of a match (though edging toward reach.)</p>

3

<p>Thank you for the suggestion! I did consider (then cut, and then reconsider) Reed for a long time, but it falls into the same ultra-intense category as Swarthmore. I’m intellectual but I don’t know if I want a competitive, always-stressed environment–that’s what my high school is like–and since I don’t party, that isn’t an available stress-reliever. Also, Reed is on the other side of the country and my parents aren’t exactly ecstatic about the airfare and general travel inconvenience. (I’m absolutely adamant about Pomona.)</p>

4

<p>You may want to reconsider not visiting Grinnell and Oberlin. Midwestern LACs seem put a lot of emphasis on visiting as an indication of seriousness. Grinnell offers great financial aid, and Asians are still considered under-represented minorities in Iowa.</p>

<p>I’m also surprised not to see Carleton on your list-a midwestern Swarthmore, with a little less intensity.</p>

5

<p>Have you looked at Macalester? Your scores are good for them. Coming from the east coast coupled with being Asian might give you a little boost. St Paul/Minneapolis is a whole lot easier to fly out of than Grinnell. If there is any religious affiliation, it is weak and historical. An atheist would do fine there.</p>

<p>Have you looked at Kenyon? Supposedly the English department is quite strong. Maybe more of a match than a safety.</p>

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<p>M’s Mom: My parents aren’t exactly ecstatic about flying out to the Midwest, either. Regarding Grinnell, my mother’s only comment was, “Iowa is nowhere. Don’t go there.” She feels a little more warmly about Oberlin, so I might be able to wrangle a road-trip there. Otherwise–if I mention it in my application somehow (or email the DoA), will not visiting hurt me? If accepted and the FA is good, I’d definitely visit then.</p>

<p>I really, really like Carleton, but I can’t get past the Minnesota thing. I don’t mind the cold and snow, but not THAT cold.</p>

<p>Twomules: Macalester is also in cold and snowy Minnesota, but for a safety it might be manageable. I’ll look into it, thank you! Kenyon is another school I adore, but it doesn’t offer CS (only a “Scientific Computing” minor and one professor who teaches a few programming courses).</p>

7

<p>And upon various arcane researches, I find that Carleton looks more and more appealing. Sigh. I guess it’s going on my list for now.</p>

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<p>About Wesleyan - it has no core. If you want to graduate with honors, you need to take 3 classes each in 3 broad areas (Humanities, Arts, and Science/Math - i think, don’t quote me on that.) It’s still open curriculum though, and most kids will fulfill those optional requirements anyway without even trying.</p>

<p>OTOH if you didn’t like it when you visited, maybe you don’t really care lol. Just wanted to let you know about its open curriculum :)</p>

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<p>Your list is fine in terms of reaches and possible matches, as you well know. It’s finding the safety school that is the difficult part of the college search process. It is very easy to flip through the books or lists of the top colleges, and pick and choose among them. Schools that are less known do not always show up in these guides or lists. You truly need to search for those schools.</p>

<p>Since you need aid to meet costs, your safety has to have that aspect as well. It also should be a school that you like. My suggestion is for you to look at schools that have EA and meet full need. Such a school can give you their answer and estimate of aid early in the process, so that you hopefully have a safety in your pocket before going through the RD process. As a result, you may have to forego Yales SCEA. Or you can look at schools that have rolling admissions and go that route. </p>

<p>Regardless of your academic credentials, you should have a good alternative just in case things do not work out as expected. It has happened too often to highly qualified kids.</p>

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<p>If I attended Wesleyan, I would force myself to fulfill the distribution requirements just so I wasn’t locked out of graduating with honors if I felt like it later on. But then, I’m obsessive about planning things (hence CC…). Thank you for the technical correction though; I wouldn’t want any future student reading my post and thinking that Wes had a true core.</p>

<p>The day I visited was right after graduation, so not many students around to observe; however, in terms of vibe/gut feeling, my reaction was very meh. But it’s still in the running because I don’t dislike it; I just don’t like it much either.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse: I very much agree on needing to find a good LAC safety. CC has been invaluable so far for research, but in actually finding colleges TO research I haven’t been satisfied in the “safe” category.</p>

<p>A question: how much would it benefit me to apply EA to a safety, versus SCEA to Yale? I will definitely look at rolling admissions, but haven’t heard of many LACs with that option.</p>

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<p>For another LAC safety, take a look at Wheaton in Mass. I don’t know alot about it, but d really liked it when she visited. At this point, she’s going ED and Carleton, but Wheaton is definitely on her list if she doesn’t make it in ED</p>

13

<p>Maybe Hampshire EA as a safety? Some other safer LACs are Kalamazoo, Beloit, Earlham, Denison, and Goucher, though I don’t know how their computer science programs are.</p>

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<p>I’ve looked at Wheaton and something about it seems off to me; nothing appeals to me. The gender ratio is off-putting, I find more praise of sports than English or Creative Writing, etc. Enough that I didn’t visit it when I had the chance, on my New England pass. It looks like a great school, though–just not for me. I don’t know, is it possible to have a gut feeling without visiting?</p>

<p>I’ve also taken cptofthehouse’s advice in looking at full-need schools; the search turned up exactly one that might qualify as a safety–Beloit, which I hadn’t previously considered because it’s in Wisconsin. Location is fast becoming a secondary characteristic. So the question remains: assuming that Beloit checks out well for English/CS, would it be better for me to do SCEA Yale or EA Beloit?</p>

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<p>quaere: I looked at Hampshire and dislike the project-oriented curriculum structure. Very innovative but not my thing. Already looked at Beloit and Denison (the former seems appealing and the latter not so much for various reasons), thank you for the other suggestions!</p>

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<p>Bwuh? You must be my CC twin. Have you thought about Columbia, as a reach?</p>

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<p>Keil, Will your family qualify for need based aid or do you want or need merit based aid? This would be a significant factor in formulating your list.</p>

<p>Safeties or less selectives require more, rather than less, attention and sometimes a visit is what you need to convince yourself that you could be happy there. </p>

<p>I would suggest that you reconsider intensive visiting at either the women’s colleges – Smith, Holyoke, Bryn Mawr – or the midwestern colleges – Kenyon, Carleton, Grinnell, Macalester. These can be good values in admissions because of gender in the first case and location in the second. </p>

<p>I would also suggest Skidmore and Hamilton if not exactly sure safeties, at least as less selectives. The remotely located colleges may have less diversity, but on the plus side, they value diversity and Asians are still considered URMs.</p>

<p>In other words, going against the grain in location, gender balance, diversity can offer increased admissions advantage without loss of academic or intellectual standing.</p>

<p>Core curriculums and distribution requirements are two different things. Few colleges have core curriculums. They can be restrictive. Many colleges have distribution requirements. They are generally speaking not restrictive.</p>

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<p>little_galaxie: We do indeed seem to be CC twins, heh. I looked at Columbia, but NYC kind of scares me and I heard there was a COCKROACH infestation in one of the dorms (I’m bug-phobic, so this is a breaking point for me).</p>

<p>momrath: our income is <100k and we can handle (barely–my parents are willing to take out loans) a 20k EFC. I was counting mostly on need-based aid, although obviously I’m not going to turn down a merit award.</p>

<p>I really -want- to visit the Midwestern colleges. The trick is convincing my (Asian) parents, who have a rather low opinion of the Midwest. Skidmore is already on my list, but I’ve heard that their FA (need-based; I don’t qualify for either of their merit scholarships in science and music) is unusually stingy.</p>

<p>Re: curriculum, I want to take as little hard science as possible (aside from CS, and I don’t mind math). A double major is also under serious consideration and I’d like the freedom of some electives. Thank you for the correction about distribution requirements, though.</p>

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<p>Keil, Many Asians prefer the same colleges, which makes them even more competitive for Asians. Eastcoast or Westcoast, urban/suburban schools are bombarded with applications from high achieving Asians. If you want to increase your chances – especially if money is involved – you need to find a school that is looking to *recruit *Asians, not weed them out.</p>

<p>You have excellent credentials and no one can say that you won’t be one of the lucky ones to be chosen by the super-selectives; however, if you’re looking for safer options you’re going to have to make some tradeoffs.</p>

<p>As far as financial aid goes, <$100,000 is tricky for need based aid. You seem like a thorough person so I assume your parents have some basis for believing that they will be entitled to $20,000 a year. If they haven’t checked this on an on-line calculator, they should do so, fast. Even need-based aid, however, isn’t entirely formulaic as it has a way of increasing if you have something that a school wants. For merit aid, the same advice applies: you have to make tradeoffs, like location, gender ratio, rating, etc.</p>

<p>Look closely at the distribution requirements at a few schools. I doubt very much that you would be required to take chemistry/biology/physics. At Williams, for example, you could fulfill the requirement with computer science, math or environmental science, geology, astronomy so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Double majors, or even triple majors, are very, very common as major requirements are minimal.</p>

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<p>Brandeis might actually be a decent “safety”. I think it might appeal to you intellectually and socially. I think it offers decent financial aid. No longer considered a religious school. People I know like it.</p>