Hello! Question : I’ve been reading a lot that GPA is a big factor when It comes to hiring as a means of entry . But is it unethical to take “easier classes” to boost your GPA that are not required for a students degree? Even if they are technically based classes that provide relevant skills and experience (for example, at some schools Research may be considered an easy A; same as a Computer Aided Design class)
By the way, this is under the impression that the student earns on average Bs in their other course work.
Probably a big factor if you are on the threshold of 2.9x versus 3.0x GPA (3.0 is a common GPA cut-off used by employers when screening resumes). But probably much less so if you are away from that threshold.
If chasing “easy A” courses were unethical, then many college students are acting unethically, and medical schools, law schools, and those engineering divisions that have a GPA-based weed-out process to enter an engineering major after frosh enrollment are encouraging such behavior.
When I was evaluating college applicants I would require a transcript. I would go thru it looking at grades for specific classes that applied to the job. Just taking classes to boost your GPA wouldn’t help.
It is definitely NOT unethical to take easier classes to try and up your GPA. Just don’t think you are going to fool anybody by doing so.
A company will put a minimum GPA out there but, in reality, the GPA that will actually get you hired is probably much higher. The company I worked for used a 3.0 cutoff but rarely did we hire anyone below something like a 3.4 or 3.5 GPA. Only if a lower GPA person had some other “hook” would they get hired.
Best thing to do is work at learning the material and getting good grades.
This may sound stupid, but why spend the time on classes you don’t need? Seems to me the time is better spend on the engineering class to get higher grades. As a simple, cherry picked example, if you are worried about getting a B+ (3.3), so you take an easy A (4.0) class to average 3.65, why not work to get an A- (3.7) in the engineering class in the first place?
Put all your classes in a spreadsheet with the grades already earned, along with the grades you hope to get, and it may surprise you how little effect this can have on an overall GPA.
The curriculum for all of the ABET accredited programs that my daughter looked at when she applied to schools didn’t have much room for fluff while being able to graduate in four years, especially if one was also in an honors program.
@HPuck35 So does that mean if you were hiring an intern to do some HVAC work for example, would you consider hiring them if they got a C in heat transfer, but had research experience or an applied HVAC course where they got an A? Or is that uncommon?
And @NorthernMom61 I don’t know about every school, but most ABET schools should have 6 to 12 hours of technical elective wiggle room .Normally students may fill this up with research or co ops or internships or technical electives relating to industry. And you may end up with more room if you bring in college credit or take classes over summer . And due to how structured pre-reqs tend to be at ABET schools, a student may end up need to take extra classes just to say a full time student . (But I go to Texas A&M so I don’t know if every school is this flexible)
The thing is, classes like research are technical electives are supposed to be saved for senior year where you GPA, doesn’t matter (in terms of jobs you are applying for that Fall / spring) since you will finish applying to jobs before your GPA is released. (Or that is my understanding at least)
lessonwitch2; You look at the grades in relation to the job you will be asking the applicant to do. An applied course would, for me, have less weight than the more comprehensive heat transfer class. I would want to know that you understood the whole range of the technical area where an applied class is usually focusing on one small part of the subject area.
The thing that you need to understand is that the competition for a job after you graduate is just as tough as for college admission. I worked for an aerospace company with national name recognition. After HR went thru and screened the applicants, I’d still have 10 applicants (or more) for every job I had open. There are lots of factors to consider when selecting the person to hire but grades in specific classes that apply to the job is near the top of the selection criteria.
Full time positions for June grads were usually filled in the spring so fall grades were available. Resumes may have been collected in the fall, but the actual interviews were still in the spring (or late winter at the earliest).
As far as interns went, I had far fewer internships available. My company would advertise as requiring a 3.2 GPA for such a position but HR would typically weed out those with GPAs less than 3.5 as we’d have so many applicants.
Is it wrong to take a few easier/fun classes that interest you? Certainly not – that is part of the college experience. If computer aided design interests you then go for it. However you should recognize that most employers will want to see your transcript or at least know the GPA in your major and all grad schools will want to see your complete transcript.
When I think “unethical”, I think of cheating or hiring someone to write a paper for you.
Taking some easier classes is fine. I would limit this to classes that you find interesting and have some reason to take in addition to the class being easy. However, you don’t need to take only classes that are tough.
By the way, as an undergrad I took a probability class partly because it was rumored to be easy. Apparently the professor heard that his class had a reputation for being easy immediately before I took it. He changed the reputation very quickly. It was one of the hardest undergrad classes that I took over four years. Fortunately it happened to be a subject that I like a lot, and the professor was very good (which makes a hard class much easier to handle). However, a reputation for “easy class” is not always a guarantee.
@HPuck35 Wait really? An applied class can exist and use . . . less then the material of the pre requistes? Isn’t it like how to take a thermo-fluids analysis class you need to use everything you learned in thermodynamics and fluid mechanics?
But I suppose that does make sense. I guess that also means that students who are better at applying concepts in reality rather then taking an exam are just out of luck when it comes to applying to engineering firms like yours. In my experience, I’ve never done a physics mechanics or statics and dynamics research project that didn’t require I apply more then what was required for their respective undergraduate classes. But I guess an employer has no way of gauging how well an applicant knew the material then ; even if they had applied project experience. (But then again, I’m a freshman so I may be looking though some pink sunglasses)
For what I consider an applied class one would use a subset of the materials learned in the prerequisites but possibly go into much further depth in the selected area(s). One would also combine the technical knowledge with some design and maybe even manufacturing and/or testing. It would also involve individual work as well as group work. I would expect one’s grade in the applied class to be similar to those obtained in the prerequisites. If it was much higher then I could see two possible reasons; 1) the student went back and learned what they should have in the prior classes (at least in the area of the subject in the applied class) or 2) the grade was more reflective of the group work and the student had a good group. It is hard for me to judge which is the correct reason. If I was interviewing an applicant with such a grade history, then I would definitely be probing how the grade in the applied class was arrived at.
The issue would still be how much of the material of the prerequisite does the applicant know given the poor grade. The job I would be offering would involve many different subject areas.
A college grad right out of school has learned the basics of engineering. For many (most) engineering jobs a lot of on the job training will have to occur before that individual becomes a true functioning engineer, meaning they can perform a variety of tasks with little or no constant supervision. I want to know that all the time and money that the company (and the people in my group) will put into that individual will produce that functioning engineer. This isn’t the stock market and past performance is indicative of future performance. I believe that one of the most important skills learned in college is how to learn. When you stop learning in your career, its time to move on. With that idea and the available pool of applicants, I would be selecting the best prepared person to fill the job I am offering. That person is rarely the one with poor grades.
As I have said before, my perspective is from a large company that made very high value hardware. Mistakes could get ultra expensive. The work was challenging and the pay was quite good. Smaller companies won’t always have such strict education requirements and expected performance (some will). But every company will strive to have the best educated, best performing staff they can.
If one is truly excited to have a career in engineering, they will put the effort into their classes to learn the material well. College is 4 years, your career is 40. The worst thing I can think of is to have a life doing something you aren’t excited about. It makes those 40 years seem like a prison sentence.
That’s very interesting. At the opposite extreme, I was asked for a transcript when I changed jobs 20 years after graduation. Just goes to show you can’t count on it working out any particular way.
My wife was the same way except it was 30 years after she graduated. She was told that they just ask everyone for a transcript so they don’t give the impression of discriminating against anyone. I would ask up to around 5 years after graduation. After that I would ask around about the person. With the field I was in and the contacts I had I could usually find out quite a bit about the person (and I don’t mean just from the references they gave).
I would think that given the rigor of a typical engineering sequence that a few easy classes that you might enjoy won’t make a significant impact on ones GPA or ones jobs prospects. The majority of courses that engineers will be taking will be science, math or engineering courses. Studying something you like if you have the room isn’t “unethical”.