Uneven SAT IIs

<p>I posted this earlier in the SAT forum but no replies so thought I'd try the wise parents....D took 4 subject SATs - 2 were fine (750+), 1 was OK and 1 was really pretty poor (German - just under 600). My question is - does anyone know how colleges will treat these? If a college only requires 3, will it throw out the lowest score? Any insight greatly appreciated! Thx.</p>

<p>samuck-- this is a good question & would like to hear some 1st hand experience on the subject.</p>

<p>In some other recent threads (most on the SAT board), I've read that colleges only look at the top 2 or 3 & do NOT look at the others, but I have a hard time believing this. One poster mentioned that the ad com at Amherst emphatically said this (first link below).</p>

<p>Here's some other threads that touch on this subject, but the question is never really answered, at least to my satisfaction:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=73451%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=73451&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72726%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72726&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72936%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=72936&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=74525%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=74525&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thank you for the links, PC. Yes,I have difficulty believing a low SAT II score doesn't register in some way....first hand accounts would be valuable. I do know that D emailed Harvard admissions to ask whether her SAT II writing score (obviously taken last year) would count as one of the three required and the answer - whew - was Yes.</p>

<p>We were told at HYP tours (all of them) that only the highest 3 scores would be considered. So, don't worry about it. Also, remember that the highest scores on these language exams are obtained by native language speakers.</p>

<p>Both my kids dd very well on all of their SAT IIs except Spanish. My son actually scored 800 on the Writing, US History, Physics, Math 1 AND Math 2 SAT IIs in his junior year, and scored below the 50th percentile (supposedly excluding native speakers) after five years of Spanish (he took it in June of senior year for placement purposes). My daughter scored 700 on US History and 710 on Writing in her junior year, and got an even lower score in Spanish than my son did in the fall of senior year after spending a month in Spain last summer. Both kids were A students in Spanish all through high school. Luckily, the school where my D applied ED did not require 3 SAT 2s, so they never saw the bad score. There must be something covered on these language tests which is only taught in certain schools, as it seems odd that so many good students who do well on the other tests do so poorly on the language ones.</p>

<p>Strange. I've heard similar problems with other language tests, specifically Hebrew. My son had taken Hebrew for 12 years in school and is a fluent speaker/writer. However, after taking a practice test with a test prep firm (a real test that SAT had used before), he realized the curve was so brutal he would never get a good score. The testing folk told him that, in all their years, they had not known a single student to do well on the Hebrew test, either through their Houston or NYC offices.</p>

<p>The story has a happy ending. He desperately needed a third test and settled on World History, which he hadn't taken in two years at school. He studied for two days and made a 770. We were ecstatic since test scores have never been his strength. (We're still struggling to pull up the SAT I.) So my initial inclination is to doublecheck before taking any SAT II language test.</p>

<p>I think that colleges really do only consider the highest scores, as they claim, for this reason:</p>

<p>Ad coms don't look at a file full of loose sheets. Instead, before they get the file, it has been organized with a summary sheet of some sort at the top, which these days is probably a printout from a computer database. So if the computer is programmed to pull out the 3 highest scores, that's what it will do -- even if it is done by hand, the employee at the admissions office is not going to do more work than necessary. That is, if their job is to write down the 3 highest scores, they are not going to write out a list of 5 scores. </p>

<p>Also, I think that the College Board now transmits test data to colleges electronically - so the colleges may not actually have a sheet to attach which lists all scores. </p>

<p>Admissions people are overworked and in a hurry -- too -- so if the cover sheet on the app file has 3 scores listed, they aren't going to have time to go rummaging around the file to try to dig up score history. </p>

<p>The only reservation I have about all this is that it is also very possible that late-arriving scores will get missed or not entered, if earlier scores have already been reported.</p>

<p>an old post with a counterpoint:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=6420%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=6420&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>one person's opinion however</p>

<p>I think they look at 3 highest. Even if they don't it worked out fine for me. My top 3 were all above 700. My others were 670 (ok, but not great) 660, and 540 (ouch!). They were good enough for Brown.</p>

<p>OK, I've decided not to worry about it though 'designated worrier' appears to be my role as D applies to college this autumn. I knew language SATs were tricky but I'd figured the bar was set fairly low: at Harvard again a 600 exempts you from the foreign language requirement.. (Sorry to keep referring to that particular uni but it's the only one for which I have any real info as an alum interviewer.) Good to hear about the Brown experience. Thanks, all.</p>

<p>There definitely must be something going on with the Spanish: my son, who had all 800's on all SAT I's and II's (except a 780 on Math IIC taken in 8th grade), just took the Spanish SATII as a senior for the exemption at Harvard, and pulled a 690--thank goodness, it was enough. He had done a couple of Spanish practice tests from a review book (Princeton Review's, which were very predictive for all his other exams), and was scoring at least 750's , but found the actual exam so much more difficult and didn't finish on time.</p>

<p>Pap Chicken asked me to retell my experience on this thread (I'm referred to in his first link), so here it is:</p>

<p>When I went to an information session at Amherst, a question was asked about their SAT II policy. The admissions officer who was leading the session very emphatically stated that they only required two SAT II subject tests, and any others would not be considered AT ALL. We were a bit skeptical about this, as he was a first-year officer and... well, very charismatic, but not all that knowledgable, or so it appeared. But he stood firm on the issue, and was very definite in his statement that only the top two would be looked at. Personally, I'm still a little skeptical about them not counting whatsoever, but I'm sure they try to focus on the top two, at least.</p>

<p>And at the other schools I've visited, the stance seemed similar. Although there were no near-arguments, like at Amherst, they still seemed to consistently consider primarily the top two or three scores. So, I think you should be sitting fairly comfortably with your three solid scores. As people have said, I definitely wouldn't worry too much about it, especially considering it's a language exam (which seem to have tougher curves).</p>

<p>thanks CremeDeLaMe</p>

<p>Three theories as to why smart kids don't score well on language SATs:
a. The quality of instruction at your school. I took my D and her friend to France after four years of straight-A HS French. As I had suspected, neither girl could so much as order dinner from a menu. (Check the grade distribution in your school's language classes. Everyone who took Latin at my D's school got an A; half of all French students got an A. Grade inflation? You betcha.)<br>
b. The teachers' understanding of what is on the test. Any competent Calculus teacher knows EXACTLY what's on the Calc AP tests. But fewer language teachers are prepared to Teach to the Test. Insist that your school start performing better on the tests.
d. The test design is sometimes screwy. Failing to know a single noun or verb can cause the student to get a whole series of questions incorrect.</p>

<p>


This varies by school and by program.</p>

<p>Most schools do not require any SAT II's.</p>

<p>The schools that do each have their own requirements. For example, tech programs usually require a Math and a Science score. If you've taken 3 Science tests, you can put down whatever ONE you want on the application (sometimes the highest score is not the highest percentile). Some schools required the SAT II Writing (although this might be replaced at some schools w/ the new SAT I in the future).</p>

<p>If you have taken the same test more than once, they will use the highest score.</p>

<p>Bottom line, you need to read the details at each school and program you are applying to (and plan out your SAT test schedules accordingly).</p>

<p>Just to add anecdotal info:</p>

<p>S's SAT 2's: 760, 720, 640, 640. Is attending Columbia now, so they couldn't have had that much effect! :)</p>

<p>D got a 560 on one of her 5 SAT 2s. She's at Yale.</p>

<p>Let me reiterate what WS17 said: check with each school in which you are interested. I've read several admissions sites which specifially said all SAT and SAT II scores were considered. I've read others which said only the top x number of SAT II scores were considered.</p>

<p>Some colleges superscore the SAT I; others do not. Some consider the scores from all SAT I tests taken; others look at only the highest. And some don't require SATs at all.</p>

<p>Again, check with EACH school to find out which tests they need and how they will use the scores in admissions.</p>

<p>Susu; I think all your hypotheses are very plausible re language SATII's. But what was surprising was the disparity between the practice tests in Princeton Review and the real thing...both my kids had found those review books to be very reflective of their test taking experience with all their other SATII subjects.</p>

<p>donemom, maybe they are curved, which gives the native speaker a huge advantage?</p>